Beefed up 8.2 rear
August 3rd, 2017, 02:41 PM
#2
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Daly City, California
Posts: 2,090
IMHO not too well. With 500hp you must be close to 600lb. tq. It might last for a while but it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when will it grenade, unless you baby it which is hard to do with the beast under the hood.
Last edited by 70cutty; August 3rd, 2017 at 02:47 PM.
August 3rd, 2017, 04:48 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 70
Next question, whats all is it gonna take to put in an 8.5 from 71-72 cutlass skylark. And will springs shocks and pinion angle be way off. Going into 66 cutlass. Or should I just look for a 9" or 12 bolt.
August 4th, 2017, 08:55 PM
#4
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richfield, Oh
Posts: 1,737
Olds 455 vs 8.2 rear
We did a 8.2 for a Buick 455 and it was RACED with slicks and it was fine 3.55 Auburn posi all new bearings and STOCK axles. 11.90 car... they just needed a summer rear to tweak the motor some... the next year they had a Moser Race 12 bolt chevy rear built by use bolt in axles and all the good stuff and full spool 33 spline etc. same 3.55 ratio
Automatic trans will save the rear a bunch on the shock of torque.
What are the cam specs where is your max torque coming in at? What stall are you using? Compression Intake Heads?
Something most people that go for 500hp is that all the specs move up the RPM scale to get that HP number
so 455 from the factory had 365HP @ 4600 RPM and 510 FtLBS 2 3000 RPM which is pretty good and low for FUN.
BUT the ram air had 400HP @ 4800RPM and 500 FT LBS @ 3200 RPM
The more HP does not necessarily mean more torque and usually is lost in the low end because it take RPM to ram more air in the chamber to get that HP...And the torque gets lost in the low end because of this....
SO as i always tell guys keep the large amount of torque in the area you can use it 2500-3500 RPM.
Be careful not to get caught up in the bigger is better trap. Good luck, Jim
J D RAce
August 5th, 2017, 06:33 AM
#5
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 70
Dont have cam or heads just yet. But looking at a hydraulic roller cam with aluminum head. But it will be a steet car for the most part. 18" and 20" wheel, it might see the drag strip or autocross for special events but its not a serious race car. But stop light racing and donuts and burnouts will done.
August 5th, 2017, 02:32 PM
#8
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 4,615
The weakest link in the 8.2 is the axles. One thing you can do is,find a set of 71/72 8.5 GM corporate axles and machine them to match the 8.2 axles. They are the same length,splines are the same & the difference is in the bearing location. They are much stronger than the 8.2 axles. I have a set in my 66 442 3X2 car and they work great. The cost of machining them would be the only cost depending on who you know in the business.
August 5th, 2017, 06:10 PM
#9
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richfield, Oh
Posts: 1,737
Questions and answers upgrade or not...???
[QUOTE=66-3X2 442;1034400]The weakest link in the 8.2 is the axles. One thing you can do is,find a set of 71/72 8.5 GM corporate axles and machine them to match the 8.2 axles. They are the same length,splines are the same & the difference is in the bearing location. They are much stronger than the 8.2 axles. I have a set in my 66 442 3X2 car and they work great. The cost of machining them would be the only cost depet
this INFO IS WRONG.
71 72 8.5 SPLINES ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE 8.2 bop axles
60 DEGREE SPLINE ON THE 8.2 AND 45 DEGREE SPLINE ON THE 8.5 CORP.
mACHINE WORK these days WILL COST more than the axles are worth in strength. (just not machine shops on ever corner like they use to be.... )
260.00 will get you a set/ pair of after market alloy axles
8.2 upgrades
The guy said he was using it for street use 90% which is just about ALL the time.
He also stated he was replacing all the internals with NEW performance parts. posi axles moser, ring and pinion bearings etc.
You have guys comparing stick shift cars and race track stories which are not even in his question. Telling him to upgrade the axles when he said he was already...???
8.5 question
To put a 8.5 into a 66 chassis is not that hard.
1. you will have to shorten the driveshaft ....always.... 8.5 rears into any gm chassis that was not a 8.5 to begin with will always have a drive shaft shortening
2. the width of the 8.5 will be 1" over all or 1/2" on each side than your 66 if it is early if it is late model you might have the same 55.25 or 61 inch overall ....YOU need to measure your rear. (so if you have tires almost rubbing on the outer fender wells your going to have issues.
3. Spring perch will be raised and the coil spring will slide out around the diameter of this raise perch. The 66 only has flat perches and uses a cup and bolt system to hold the pig tail coil spring lower mounting point in place. The pig tail is slightly larger than a 67 lower coil pig tail so if you want it to be dead on, swap the springs for 1967 year A-body springs. I do not believe this is a huge deal and you can get away with out changing.
Everything else is the same brakes lower and upper control arm mounting points shock mounting points, pinion angle etc.
Trying to answer the question he asked. ---- And correct any errors that might mis-lead others.
Jim
J D Race
this INFO IS WRONG.
71 72 8.5 SPLINES ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE 8.2 bop axles
60 DEGREE SPLINE ON THE 8.2 AND 45 DEGREE SPLINE ON THE 8.5 CORP.
mACHINE WORK these days WILL COST more than the axles are worth in strength. (just not machine shops on ever corner like they use to be.... )
260.00 will get you a set/ pair of after market alloy axles
8.2 upgrades
The guy said he was using it for street use 90% which is just about ALL the time.
He also stated he was replacing all the internals with NEW performance parts. posi axles moser, ring and pinion bearings etc.
You have guys comparing stick shift cars and race track stories which are not even in his question. Telling him to upgrade the axles when he said he was already...???
8.5 question
To put a 8.5 into a 66 chassis is not that hard.
1. you will have to shorten the driveshaft ....always.... 8.5 rears into any gm chassis that was not a 8.5 to begin with will always have a drive shaft shortening
2. the width of the 8.5 will be 1" over all or 1/2" on each side than your 66 if it is early if it is late model you might have the same 55.25 or 61 inch overall ....YOU need to measure your rear. (so if you have tires almost rubbing on the outer fender wells your going to have issues.
3. Spring perch will be raised and the coil spring will slide out around the diameter of this raise perch. The 66 only has flat perches and uses a cup and bolt system to hold the pig tail coil spring lower mounting point in place. The pig tail is slightly larger than a 67 lower coil pig tail so if you want it to be dead on, swap the springs for 1967 year A-body springs. I do not believe this is a huge deal and you can get away with out changing.
Everything else is the same brakes lower and upper control arm mounting points shock mounting points, pinion angle etc.
Trying to answer the question he asked. ---- And correct any errors that might mis-lead others.
Jim
J D Race
August 5th, 2017, 07:44 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 4,615
[QUOTE=monzaz;1034452]
Not to start a pissing contest but how did I put the 8.5 axles in my 8.2? We machined the bearing surface dimensions to match the 8.2,put the bearings on and installed them in the 66 8.2 housing.
This is what I did. When I got my car from the original owner,the rear axle was out of the car with the axles removed. He gave me a set of axles for it. When we built the rear,we put the axles given to me in it not noticing the diameter difference. I put rear disc brakes on it and I couldn't get the caliper to center on the rotor. It was off a good bit. I pulled the axles and compared them to a 8.2/O type 28 spline axle and saw the bearing was about 1/2 inch + - off in difference. The axles that were given to me looked to be 8.5 because the diameter was the same from the bearing surface to the splines like 8.5 axles are. We machined the bearing surface to match the known 8.2 and reinstalled them in the housing and the calipers/rotors then lined up as they should. I have since removed the disc brakes and installed drums brakes.
Now,with that being said,what other axle will fit the 8.2 that looks like a 8.5 unit? Will the axle even go in the axle gears if the splines are indeed different? I have put appox. 700 + miles on my car with absolutely no issues with the rear axle.
I am not one to give out bad info,I rely on hands on experience to make a statement as I did. If I'm wrong,I'm wrong but I would like to figure out how I did my rear axles the way I did. The machine work on my axles didn't cost me anything because my buddy who builds my stuff has a lathe,so cost wasn't a factor. If I was building anything other than a restored car,I would have bought alloy axles.
The 67 rear springs will not interchange into a 66 frame. The 66 springs are open or the same diameter as the spring itself at the top as where the 67 spring pig tails down on both ends.
The weakest link in the 8.2 is the axles. One thing you can do is,find a set of 71/72 8.5 GM corporate axles and machine them to match the 8.2 axles. They are the same length,splines are the same & the difference is in the bearing location. They are much stronger than the 8.2 axles. I have a set in my 66 442 3X2 car and they work great. The cost of machining them would be the only cost depet
this INFO IS WRONG.
71 72 8.5 SPLINES ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE 8.2 bop axles
60 DEGREE SPLINE ON THE 8.2 AND 45 DEGREE SPLINE ON THE 8.5 CORP.
mACHINE WORK these days WILL COST more than the axles are worth in strength. (just not machine shops on ever corner like they use to be.... )
260.00 will get you a set/ pair of after market alloy axles
8.2 upgrades
The guy said he was using it for street use 90% which is just about ALL the time.
He also stated he was replacing all the internals with NEW performance parts. posi axles moser, ring and pinion bearings etc.
You have guys comparing stick shift cars and race track stories which are not even in his question. Telling him to upgrade the axles when he said he was already...???
8.5 question
To put a 8.5 into a 66 chassis is not that hard.
1. you will have to shorten the driveshaft ....always.... 8.5 rears into any gm chassis that was not a 8.5 to begin with will always have a drive shaft shortening
2. the width of the 8.5 will be 1" over all or 1/2" on each side than your 66 if it is early if it is late model you might have the same 55.25 or 61 inch overall ....YOU need to measure your rear. (so if you have tires almost rubbing on the outer fender wells your going to have issues.
3. Spring perch will be raised and the coil spring will slide out around the diameter of this raise perch. The 66 only has flat perches and uses a cup and bolt system to hold the pig tail coil spring lower mounting point in place. The pig tail is slightly larger than a 67 lower coil pig tail so if you want it to be dead on, swap the springs for 1967 year A-body springs. I do not believe this is a huge deal and you can get away with out changing.
Everything else is the same brakes lower and upper control arm mounting points shock mounting points, pinion angle etc.
Trying to answer the question he asked. ---- And correct any errors that might mis-lead others.
Jim
J D Race
this INFO IS WRONG.
71 72 8.5 SPLINES ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE 8.2 bop axles
60 DEGREE SPLINE ON THE 8.2 AND 45 DEGREE SPLINE ON THE 8.5 CORP.
mACHINE WORK these days WILL COST more than the axles are worth in strength. (just not machine shops on ever corner like they use to be.... )
260.00 will get you a set/ pair of after market alloy axles
8.2 upgrades
The guy said he was using it for street use 90% which is just about ALL the time.
He also stated he was replacing all the internals with NEW performance parts. posi axles moser, ring and pinion bearings etc.
You have guys comparing stick shift cars and race track stories which are not even in his question. Telling him to upgrade the axles when he said he was already...???
8.5 question
To put a 8.5 into a 66 chassis is not that hard.
1. you will have to shorten the driveshaft ....always.... 8.5 rears into any gm chassis that was not a 8.5 to begin with will always have a drive shaft shortening
2. the width of the 8.5 will be 1" over all or 1/2" on each side than your 66 if it is early if it is late model you might have the same 55.25 or 61 inch overall ....YOU need to measure your rear. (so if you have tires almost rubbing on the outer fender wells your going to have issues.
3. Spring perch will be raised and the coil spring will slide out around the diameter of this raise perch. The 66 only has flat perches and uses a cup and bolt system to hold the pig tail coil spring lower mounting point in place. The pig tail is slightly larger than a 67 lower coil pig tail so if you want it to be dead on, swap the springs for 1967 year A-body springs. I do not believe this is a huge deal and you can get away with out changing.
Everything else is the same brakes lower and upper control arm mounting points shock mounting points, pinion angle etc.
Trying to answer the question he asked. ---- And correct any errors that might mis-lead others.
Jim
J D Race
This is what I did. When I got my car from the original owner,the rear axle was out of the car with the axles removed. He gave me a set of axles for it. When we built the rear,we put the axles given to me in it not noticing the diameter difference. I put rear disc brakes on it and I couldn't get the caliper to center on the rotor. It was off a good bit. I pulled the axles and compared them to a 8.2/O type 28 spline axle and saw the bearing was about 1/2 inch + - off in difference. The axles that were given to me looked to be 8.5 because the diameter was the same from the bearing surface to the splines like 8.5 axles are. We machined the bearing surface to match the known 8.2 and reinstalled them in the housing and the calipers/rotors then lined up as they should. I have since removed the disc brakes and installed drums brakes.
Now,with that being said,what other axle will fit the 8.2 that looks like a 8.5 unit? Will the axle even go in the axle gears if the splines are indeed different? I have put appox. 700 + miles on my car with absolutely no issues with the rear axle.
I am not one to give out bad info,I rely on hands on experience to make a statement as I did. If I'm wrong,I'm wrong but I would like to figure out how I did my rear axles the way I did. The machine work on my axles didn't cost me anything because my buddy who builds my stuff has a lathe,so cost wasn't a factor. If I was building anything other than a restored car,I would have bought alloy axles.
The 67 rear springs will not interchange into a 66 frame. The 66 springs are open or the same diameter as the spring itself at the top as where the 67 spring pig tails down on both ends.
Last edited by 66-3X2 442; August 6th, 2017 at 05:59 AM.
August 5th, 2017, 10:57 PM
#11
Just to attest to the strength of an 8.2, my dad still has the original 8.2 in his 65 nova. By the time I knew anything about cars it was a had a mini spool( after the posi wore out), sbc and would pull both front wheels a bit running 11.40's for a few years. Then the sbc came out for a 502, currently a 477 with massive turbo(traps 13xmph). It is worn out and on its last leg but they can take years of abuse. His car is why I won't bother taking the 8.2 out of my 66
August 6th, 2017, 05:10 AM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Braceville, Ohio
Posts: 1,972
About 20 years ago I upgraded a 8.2 rear housing. 3.73 posi. I bought Moser axles for it. The axles came but didn't have the Moser logo (decal). I don't know why but I called them asking why and the rep said they didn't put their logo on axles for the 8.2 because they felt it was a "weak" unit, only 8.5 and up got the logo. That being said, the car, 1969 Cutlass, 455 (461) is still working fine and was drag raced probably 50 times with drag radials. No problems and the owner drives it mainly for street. My opinion is always be straight when heating tires in the water and NEVER do that stupid **** I see on these car shows, doing burnout brodies. IMO that's asking for trouble.
August 6th, 2017, 05:58 AM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 4,615
About 20 years ago I upgraded a 8.2 rear housing. 3.73 posi. I bought Moser axles for it. The axles came but didn't have the Moser logo (decal). I don't know why but I called them asking why and the rep said they didn't put their logo on axles for the 8.2 because they felt it was a "weak" unit, only 8.5 and up got the logo. That being said, the car, 1969 Cutlass, 455 (461) is still working fine and was drag raced probably 50 times with drag radials. No problems and the owner drives it mainly for street. My opinion is always be straight when heating tires in the water and NEVER do that stupid **** I see on these car shows, doing burnout brodies. IMO that's asking for trouble.
August 6th, 2017, 07:25 AM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richfield, Oh
Posts: 1,737
rear A-body coil spring differences and 8.2 axles
[QUOTE=66-3X2 442;1034472]
Not to start a pissing contest but how did I put the 8.5 axles in my 8.2? We machined the bearing surface dimensions to match the 8.2,put the bearings on and installed them in the 66 8.2 housing.
This is what I did. When I got my car from the original owner,the rear axle was out of the car with the axles removed. He gave me a set of axles for it. When we built the rear,we put the axles given to me in it not noticing the diameter difference. I put rear disc brakes on it and I couldn't get the caliper to center on the rotor. It was off a good bit. I pulled the axles and compared them to a 8.2/O type 28 spline axle and saw the bearing was about 1/2 inch + - off in difference. The axles that were given to me looked to be 8.5 because the diameter was the same from the bearing surface to the splines like 8.5 axles are. We machined the bearing surface to match the known 8.2 and reinstalled them in the housing and the calipers/rotors then lined up as they should. I have since removed the disc brakes and installed drums brakes.
Now,with that being said,what other axle will fit the 8.2 that looks like a 8.5 unit? Will the axle even go in the axle gears if the splines are indeed different? I have put appox. 700 + miles on my car with absolutely no issues with the rear axle.
I am not one to give out bad info,I rely on hands on experience to make a statement as I did. If I'm wrong,I'm wrong but I would like to figure out how I did my rear axles the way I did. The machine work on my axles didn't cost me anything because my buddy who builds my stuff has a lathe,so cost wasn't a factor. If I was building anything other than a restored car,I would have bought alloy axles.
The 67 rear springs will not interchange into a 66 frame. The 66 springs are open or the same diameter as the spring itself at the top as where the 67 spring pig tails down on both ends.
I have parted out thousands of differentials Most all are Muscle rears.
I can prove to you a 100 times over that true 8.5 axles are 45 degree spline and WILL NOT fit the 8.2 original GM carriers .
What you received was a 1969 late or 1970 8.25 Buick or 10 bolt 8.2 Pontiac axle which BOTH have oiled bearing systems like the 8.5 rear. They have 30 degree spline and the 8.5 has 45 degree spline.
SO you can take a 8.2 10 bolt oiled bearing axle from a 1969 -1970 and it will fit the 71 72 rear and spline (LOOSELY not tight and perfect as it should) BUT you can NEVER fit a original 8.5 10 bolt 45 degree spline in a 10 bolt 8.2....
I have side gears and axles galore to prove this.
Your machine work would work...BUT why? as stated machine work now is out and over priced and would cots more than the NEW axles and still be inferior in strength because you machine through case hardened material at the bearing surface end.
More wrong info.... quote-
The 67 rear springs will not interchange into a 66 frame. The 66 springs are open or the same diameter as the spring itself at the top as where the 67 spring pig tails down on both ends.
1965 1966 spring vs 1967 spring vs 1968 -1972 springs
Ok here is the spring info.
1965 66 springs are the same they have a LARGE about 6" diameter pocket in the upper frame and the lower is about 3.5" diameter, the 1967 ALSO have the same 6" upper coil spring pocket with a smaller lower 3" pig tail so it can fit the 67 raised spring perch pocket - The 68-72 have the same small 3" diameter pig tail perch pocket as the 67 lower and the same 3" pocket at the top of the spring and can be flipped either way and be used.... there is not top or bottom on the 68 -72. Unless you get a variable rated spring from the aftermarket.
Hope that helps understand the rear coil spring thing.
I am NOT trying to make anyone look bad here. I just want the correct info on the site... THIS is important to me and I am sure to all of you looking to reference stuff. That is also why TITLE info is important too so people can search this info and make up their own minds and try the stuff and see what works for them.
Jim
J D RAce
Not to start a pissing contest but how did I put the 8.5 axles in my 8.2? We machined the bearing surface dimensions to match the 8.2,put the bearings on and installed them in the 66 8.2 housing.
This is what I did. When I got my car from the original owner,the rear axle was out of the car with the axles removed. He gave me a set of axles for it. When we built the rear,we put the axles given to me in it not noticing the diameter difference. I put rear disc brakes on it and I couldn't get the caliper to center on the rotor. It was off a good bit. I pulled the axles and compared them to a 8.2/O type 28 spline axle and saw the bearing was about 1/2 inch + - off in difference. The axles that were given to me looked to be 8.5 because the diameter was the same from the bearing surface to the splines like 8.5 axles are. We machined the bearing surface to match the known 8.2 and reinstalled them in the housing and the calipers/rotors then lined up as they should. I have since removed the disc brakes and installed drums brakes.
Now,with that being said,what other axle will fit the 8.2 that looks like a 8.5 unit? Will the axle even go in the axle gears if the splines are indeed different? I have put appox. 700 + miles on my car with absolutely no issues with the rear axle.
I am not one to give out bad info,I rely on hands on experience to make a statement as I did. If I'm wrong,I'm wrong but I would like to figure out how I did my rear axles the way I did. The machine work on my axles didn't cost me anything because my buddy who builds my stuff has a lathe,so cost wasn't a factor. If I was building anything other than a restored car,I would have bought alloy axles.
The 67 rear springs will not interchange into a 66 frame. The 66 springs are open or the same diameter as the spring itself at the top as where the 67 spring pig tails down on both ends.
I can prove to you a 100 times over that true 8.5 axles are 45 degree spline and WILL NOT fit the 8.2 original GM carriers .
What you received was a 1969 late or 1970 8.25 Buick or 10 bolt 8.2 Pontiac axle which BOTH have oiled bearing systems like the 8.5 rear. They have 30 degree spline and the 8.5 has 45 degree spline.
SO you can take a 8.2 10 bolt oiled bearing axle from a 1969 -1970 and it will fit the 71 72 rear and spline (LOOSELY not tight and perfect as it should) BUT you can NEVER fit a original 8.5 10 bolt 45 degree spline in a 10 bolt 8.2....
I have side gears and axles galore to prove this.
Your machine work would work...BUT why? as stated machine work now is out and over priced and would cots more than the NEW axles and still be inferior in strength because you machine through case hardened material at the bearing surface end.
More wrong info.... quote-
The 67 rear springs will not interchange into a 66 frame. The 66 springs are open or the same diameter as the spring itself at the top as where the 67 spring pig tails down on both ends.
1965 1966 spring vs 1967 spring vs 1968 -1972 springs
Ok here is the spring info.
1965 66 springs are the same they have a LARGE about 6" diameter pocket in the upper frame and the lower is about 3.5" diameter, the 1967 ALSO have the same 6" upper coil spring pocket with a smaller lower 3" pig tail so it can fit the 67 raised spring perch pocket - The 68-72 have the same small 3" diameter pig tail perch pocket as the 67 lower and the same 3" pocket at the top of the spring and can be flipped either way and be used.... there is not top or bottom on the 68 -72. Unless you get a variable rated spring from the aftermarket.
Hope that helps understand the rear coil spring thing.
I am NOT trying to make anyone look bad here. I just want the correct info on the site... THIS is important to me and I am sure to all of you looking to reference stuff. That is also why TITLE info is important too so people can search this info and make up their own minds and try the stuff and see what works for them.
Jim
J D RAce
Last edited by monzaz; October 25th, 2023 at 06:12 AM.
August 6th, 2017, 07:28 AM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richfield, Oh
Posts: 1,737
Aftermarket now makes the 27 spline BOP pinion ring and pinion in 3.73 ratio.
I have them in stock also.
Randys, Nitro gear and Motive gear and axle all have them
August 6th, 2017, 07:33 AM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richfield, Oh
Posts: 1,737
About 20 years ago I upgraded a 8.2 rear housing. 3.73 posi. I bought Moser axles for it. The axles came but didn't have the Moser logo (decal). I don't know why but I called them asking why and the rep said they didn't put their logo on axles for the 8.2 because they felt it was a "weak" unit, only 8.5 and up got the logo. That being said, the car, 1969 Cutlass, 455 (461) is still working fine and was drag raced probably 50 times with drag radials. No problems and the owner drives it mainly for street. My opinion is always be straight when heating tires in the water and NEVER do that stupid **** I see on these car shows, doing burnout brodies. IMO that's asking for trouble.
I sell Moser parts and had asked many years ago.... you can only get the street axle stickers for them. Which is what the c-clip axles get.
You can not just ask for the race axle sticker ends either you have to PROVE you have the axles... I had a guy that lost one and he wanted a replacement...IT WAS hell to get those stickers...lol.
Jim
J d RAce
August 6th, 2017, 07:52 AM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 4,615
[QUOTE=monzaz;1034544]
I have parted out thousands of differentials Most all are Muscle rears.
I can prove to you a 100 times over that true 8.5 axles are 45 degree spline and WILL NOT fit the 8.2 original GM carriers .
What you received was a 1969 late or 1970 8.25 Buick or 10 bolt 8.2 Pontiac axle which BOTH have oiled bearing systems like the 8.5 rear. They have 60 degree spline and the 8.5 has 45 degree spline.
SO you can take a 8.2 10 bolt oiled bearing axle from a 1969 -1970 and it will fit the 71 72 rear and spline (LOOSELY not tight and perfect as it should) BUT you can NEVER fit a original 8.5 10 bolt 45 degree spline in a 10 bolt 8.2....
I have side gears and axles galore to prove this.
Your machine work would work...BUT why? as stated machine work now is out and over priced and would cots more than the NEW axles and still be inferior in strength because you machine through case hardened material at the bearing surface end.
More wrong info.... quote-
The 67 rear springs will not interchange into a 66 frame. The 66 springs are open or the same diameter as the spring itself at the top as where the 67 spring pig tails down on both ends.
1965 1966 spring vs 1967 spring vs 1968 -1972 springs
Ok here is the sping info.
1965 66 springs are the same they have a LARGE about 6" diameter pocket in the upper frame and the lower is about 3.5" diameter, the 1967 ALSO have the same 6" upper coil spring pocket with a smaller lower 3" pig tail so it can fit the 67 raised spring perch pocket - The 68-72 have the same small 3" diameter pig tail perch pocket as the 67 lower and the same 3" pocket at the top of the spring and can be flipped either way and be used.... there is not top or bottom on the 68 -72. Unless you get a variable rated spring from the aftermarket.
Hope that helps understand the rear coil spring thing.
I am NOT trying to make anyone look bad here. I just want the correct info on the site... THIS is important to me and I am sure to all of you looking to reference stuff. That is also why TITLE info is important too so people can search this info and make up thier own minds and try the stuff and see what works for them.
Jim
J D RAce
I'm just like you,not here to prove anybody right,wrong or indifferent. However,you're wrong about the 67 springs being the same. They are pig tailed/small on both ends like the 68 up springs. You are correct about the 66 spring using a bolt style mounting perch and the 67 using the dowel style mounting perch. Maybe somebody following this has a 67 and can shed some light on this subject,anybody? I like you have parted a lot of stuff,probably over a 100 66/67 cars and what I'm telling you is truth about the springs. Take it for what it's worth. My 66 has won everything possible @ the OCA Nats,1st place,Best Of Class and Senior Preservation. I'm telling this because I want you to know I've been around the scene for a long time and have some experience with these cars. As far as the axles go,you're probably right,I just assumed what I used was 8.5. Is there a 8.2 axle that mirrors a 8.5 as far as diameter goes? Just trying to learn.
Did some research on this 66/67 spring debate. Here's what Fusick sells for the two years. The last two items shows the difference.
https://www.fusickautomotiveproducts...s.asp?dept=790
My car & the 66 442 Conv. in the background was also one of my cars that I sold. My 64 442 Conv was also @ the end of the row. These pictures are from the 2016 OCA Nats in Kingsport TN where my 66 won Best of Class & SR. Preservation & the 64 also won Best of Class. Just showing that I have been around a while and hopefully gained some knowledge a long the way.
My 64 442 Conv.
I just remembered this. Here's my 66 W-30 Track Pac car I raced @ the NMCA races in 94. I built the car just to race this series and I put a 67 Conv. frame under the car. I used a 66 Chevy 12 bolt rear axle that had the bolt style perch and the pigtail @ the top.
I have parted out thousands of differentials Most all are Muscle rears.
I can prove to you a 100 times over that true 8.5 axles are 45 degree spline and WILL NOT fit the 8.2 original GM carriers .
What you received was a 1969 late or 1970 8.25 Buick or 10 bolt 8.2 Pontiac axle which BOTH have oiled bearing systems like the 8.5 rear. They have 60 degree spline and the 8.5 has 45 degree spline.
SO you can take a 8.2 10 bolt oiled bearing axle from a 1969 -1970 and it will fit the 71 72 rear and spline (LOOSELY not tight and perfect as it should) BUT you can NEVER fit a original 8.5 10 bolt 45 degree spline in a 10 bolt 8.2....
I have side gears and axles galore to prove this.
Your machine work would work...BUT why? as stated machine work now is out and over priced and would cots more than the NEW axles and still be inferior in strength because you machine through case hardened material at the bearing surface end.
More wrong info.... quote-
The 67 rear springs will not interchange into a 66 frame. The 66 springs are open or the same diameter as the spring itself at the top as where the 67 spring pig tails down on both ends.
1965 1966 spring vs 1967 spring vs 1968 -1972 springs
Ok here is the sping info.
1965 66 springs are the same they have a LARGE about 6" diameter pocket in the upper frame and the lower is about 3.5" diameter, the 1967 ALSO have the same 6" upper coil spring pocket with a smaller lower 3" pig tail so it can fit the 67 raised spring perch pocket - The 68-72 have the same small 3" diameter pig tail perch pocket as the 67 lower and the same 3" pocket at the top of the spring and can be flipped either way and be used.... there is not top or bottom on the 68 -72. Unless you get a variable rated spring from the aftermarket.
Hope that helps understand the rear coil spring thing.
I am NOT trying to make anyone look bad here. I just want the correct info on the site... THIS is important to me and I am sure to all of you looking to reference stuff. That is also why TITLE info is important too so people can search this info and make up thier own minds and try the stuff and see what works for them.
Jim
J D RAce
Did some research on this 66/67 spring debate. Here's what Fusick sells for the two years. The last two items shows the difference.
https://www.fusickautomotiveproducts...s.asp?dept=790
My car & the 66 442 Conv. in the background was also one of my cars that I sold. My 64 442 Conv was also @ the end of the row. These pictures are from the 2016 OCA Nats in Kingsport TN where my 66 won Best of Class & SR. Preservation & the 64 also won Best of Class. Just showing that I have been around a while and hopefully gained some knowledge a long the way.
My 64 442 Conv.
I just remembered this. Here's my 66 W-30 Track Pac car I raced @ the NMCA races in 94. I built the car just to race this series and I put a 67 Conv. frame under the car. I used a 66 Chevy 12 bolt rear axle that had the bolt style perch and the pigtail @ the top.
Last edited by 66-3X2 442; August 6th, 2017 at 10:57 AM.
August 6th, 2017, 11:29 AM
#18
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Braceville, Ohio
Posts: 1,972
Kenny at KTR setup the rearend and supplied the parts. He'd built me a Ford 9" previously with 33 spline axles (Moser) that had the logo. The logo was no big deal but because I'd purchased new axles from them I thought they'd forgot the logo. KTR went out of business about 12 years ago.
August 6th, 2017, 06:37 PM
#19
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richfield, Oh
Posts: 1,737
1967 A Body rear coil spring info
I do not doubt you or anyone has the restoration ability.
I admit I have not had a FULL car in the shop for resto for 15 some years complete. I only deal in the rears now.
In 1967 we agree that the control arm uppers are still longer than the 1968 - 72 correct?
If that is correct would it not make sense they kept the upper cross member for the spring pockets the same also? and transitioning to the 68 -72 after changing the lower to a raised perch then went to the upper change the next year?
As I just did a google search and it does appear the new aftermarket 67 - 72 springs are ALL the same as you say pigtail on each end.
I still would love a 1967 car owner to chime in and give us an answer as to what the upper rear spring perch pocket is small or large diameter. . I have googled pictures but nothing to confirm one way or another.
The Axles I am 100% confident on as this is my expertise - 64 65 66 for sure are larger diameter on top. 68-72 are pig tail top and bottom....
Just 67 being a transitional year as BOP actually made this 67 rear wide as the 68-72 55.25 Housing flange to flange BUT the chevelle, el camino chevy 10 and 12 bolt rears were still narrower 54.25 flange to flange.
So for now I will concede on the springs as you did on the axles... Still would love a definite from a member with pictures.
Jim
J D Race
I admit I have not had a FULL car in the shop for resto for 15 some years complete. I only deal in the rears now.
In 1967 we agree that the control arm uppers are still longer than the 1968 - 72 correct?
If that is correct would it not make sense they kept the upper cross member for the spring pockets the same also? and transitioning to the 68 -72 after changing the lower to a raised perch then went to the upper change the next year?
As I just did a google search and it does appear the new aftermarket 67 - 72 springs are ALL the same as you say pigtail on each end.
I still would love a 1967 car owner to chime in and give us an answer as to what the upper rear spring perch pocket is small or large diameter. . I have googled pictures but nothing to confirm one way or another.
The Axles I am 100% confident on as this is my expertise - 64 65 66 for sure are larger diameter on top. 68-72 are pig tail top and bottom....
Just 67 being a transitional year as BOP actually made this 67 rear wide as the 68-72 55.25 Housing flange to flange BUT the chevelle, el camino chevy 10 and 12 bolt rears were still narrower 54.25 flange to flange.
So for now I will concede on the springs as you did on the axles... Still would love a definite from a member with pictures.
Jim
J D Race
August 6th, 2017, 06:46 PM
#20
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richfield, Oh
Posts: 1,737
1967 proof of double small pig tail hot rod mag beater build
Here is the proof.
this is a 1967 Chevelle and it does appear to have the upper small pig tail springs same as the 1968 -72 A-body
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/getti...d-installation
So there it is 1967 -1972 have the same springs small pig tail top and bottom
Sorry for the wrong info on that.... Sorry guys... guess i should stick to rears huh...
Jim
J D Race
this is a 1967 Chevelle and it does appear to have the upper small pig tail springs same as the 1968 -72 A-body
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/getti...d-installation
So there it is 1967 -1972 have the same springs small pig tail top and bottom
Sorry for the wrong info on that.... Sorry guys... guess i should stick to rears huh...
Jim
J D Race
August 6th, 2017, 07:19 PM
#21
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 4,615
Here is the proof.
this is a 1967 Chevelle and it does appear to have the upper small pig tail springs same as the 1968 -72 A-body
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/getti...d-installation
So there it is 1967 -1972 have the same springs small pig tail top and bottom
Sorry for the wrong info on that.... Sorry guys... guess i should stick to rears huh...
Jim
J D Race
this is a 1967 Chevelle and it does appear to have the upper small pig tail springs same as the 1968 -72 A-body
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/getti...d-installation
So there it is 1967 -1972 have the same springs small pig tail top and bottom
Sorry for the wrong info on that.... Sorry guys... guess i should stick to rears huh...
Jim
J D Race
Last edited by 66-3X2 442; August 6th, 2017 at 07:35 PM.
August 6th, 2017, 09:40 PM
#22
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richfield, Oh
Posts: 1,737
bearing and axle oiled bearing
1969 late and 1970 in the 8.25 Buick skylark, GS, and 12 bolt oldsmobile cutlass SX W cars late 69 and all of 70 and the 10 bolt 8.2 late 69 thru to 72 Pontiac all A-body GTO Lemans, Tempest.
The firebird 10 bolt 8.2 late 69 will again have the oiled bearing like the 8.5 with the same offset and 29 3/4" to 7/8" length.
ALL these axles will be 60 degree spline.
Sealed bearing with the 29 3/4" -7/8" were the 1966 late thru to the 1969 early ...
Most FORGED STEEL axles were single access hole in the flange... they came in the 'N' housings Nodular. Usually the 3 access hole axles were regular case hardened axles standard performance issue.
The firebird 10 bolt 8.2 late 69 will again have the oiled bearing like the 8.5 with the same offset and 29 3/4" to 7/8" length.
ALL these axles will be 60 degree spline.
Sealed bearing with the 29 3/4" -7/8" were the 1966 late thru to the 1969 early ...
Most FORGED STEEL axles were single access hole in the flange... they came in the 'N' housings Nodular. Usually the 3 access hole axles were regular case hardened axles standard performance issue.
September 4th, 2017, 09:06 AM
#23
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 585
So you wanted the Moser emblems for the RACE axles ...Yes? The Black White and red axle sticker 1.5: round emblems are for RACE axles (BOLT IN AXLES) that are 30 spline and larger. 28 spline will not get them.... as he stated they are too small to give the race warranty to.
I sell Moser parts and had asked many years ago.... you can only get the street axle stickers for them. Which is what the c-clip axles get.
You can not just ask for the race axle sticker ends either you have to PROVE you have the axles... I had a guy that lost one and he wanted a replacement...IT WAS hell to get those stickers...lol.
Jim
J d RAce
I sell Moser parts and had asked many years ago.... you can only get the street axle stickers for them. Which is what the c-clip axles get.
You can not just ask for the race axle sticker ends either you have to PROVE you have the axles... I had a guy that lost one and he wanted a replacement...IT WAS hell to get those stickers...lol.
Jim
J d RAce
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