oldzy

Just wondering if anyone has converted from a column shift to 4-speed? If so, curious, how you tackled the steering wheel part, speedo, etc.

sborruso

You need to get a column out of a floor shift car,either automatic or manual, if the speedo has the shift quadrant in it you need to get one from a manual car.

507OLDS

Not too hard.Just take your time,and make sure you have all the correct parts.I have done a alot of conversions like this on some of my cars,as well as customer's cars.Bench to buckets/console,bench with column shift auto to bench with 4spd,etc.As far as the dash & column go,any 69-72 A-body floorshift steering column will work.If you converting to a 4-spd,then you will need the special 4spd reverse light switch at the bottom of the column.This switch is a little smaller than the normal switch,like what you have already.Basicly,it relocates the prongs to a different position,compared to the auto switch.This activates your reverse lights,and also puts your column in the park or lock position,to take the key out.The speedo need to be from any floorshift Cutlass/442.71-72 speedos have a blue highbeam light whereas 70 speedos have a red highbeam light.I can give you a list of all of the other parts,if/when you decide to do this.It seems like you would want to do it the correct factory way.
If you do convert to a 4-spd,you will aslo need to have your crank drilled for a pilot bearing.This is an opportune time,since the car is apart.

joe_padavano

All of the above is correct, but it assumes that you care about a factory-correct installation. If all you care about is having a four speed, you can leave the speedo with the shift indicator and ignore it for now. You can drill out the pin holding the AT shift lever and remove it, keeping your original column. You do need to pin the shift bowl in the "park" position to ensure the key can be rotated to the LOCK position for removal. You can get an aftermarket backup light switch that goes on the shifter from Hurst and simply swap the wires from your original to that one. The wires for the neutral safety switch go instead to the clutch safety switch. That's the minimum effort required.

Run to Rund

and put the Z bar bracket on the frame!

oldzy

Few more q's...

Since I am doing a frame-off and all my wires are being replaced with new ones/harnesses, should I get the 'auto' versions just in case I do go to manual, but change my mind later on and want to put my TH350 back in? per Fusick's cat, the main ones are the Dash Harness and the Engine Main Wiring and Dash Rear Harness that have an auto and manual version. I do see they have a 1972 all Cutlass/442 with Rally Pak option for the Dash Harness though which covers auto and manual.

Also, did the 4-speeds for 1972 come with a console surrounding the shifter, or just the plain ol shifter by itself?

No more holes to drill for the pedal assembly? Can I change the spring tension if I want to do something more 'light' for my sissy left foot?

Any install pics of the reverse light switch and neutral switch?

In re to putting another speedo in... any issues opening it up and matching the miles with my original auto speedo?

I guess one bonus is that I already have factory buckets (A51). It was ordered that way with the 'column' shift by the original owner. Auto transmissions are just so boring though, and if I want to convert (yes, I would want the factory looking 4-spd setup), this would definitely be the time to do it, since everything is apart as mentioned.

thx

oldzy

Also, curious which wires are which here on the orig auto column? Neutral safety switch at bottom near firewall with green/white/purple wires?

joe_padavano

Yup. Green = backup lights, Purple = neutral safety

507OLDS

For the 4spd cars,there is a small 8" purple jumper wire,that connects to that purple wire,and connects to the neutral safety switch on the clutch pedal.Everything else in your existing harness is the same.The only holes that you need to make are the one in the trans tunnel,for the boot hump,and the round hole in the column plate,for the clutch rod to pass through.You could get a 4-spd car with or with a console.The non-console 40spds had the same handle as the bench seat cars.The console 4-spd handle is different.It has more offsets in it to get it up through the center of the console.Your battery positive cable also gets routed along the top of the LH valve cover,and down the back of the engine.I have pictures & parts of anything & everything.

My442

Here is the stuff you need.

Add in a tranny, clutch, bell housing, etc.

I did a 100% GM parts 4 speed on my 70.

You will spend $3,000 to do it right.

507OLDS

Good picture Paul.Yes,you will spend that much to do it right.Yes,there are so repop kits out there,and they are less than what you would pay for original parts,but they are not the same in quality.For example: The repop z-bar,for $70.00.Yes,it's new,and will fit & function correctly,but they could have put a little more effort into making it nice.The ends where the rods attach,are just drilled holes,so you rods can just ride on thick sheetmetal,and let the wearing begin.The original z-bar has a bushing at the end for the pedal rod,and a formed hole at the other end for the fork rod.I recently was working on a 71 442 with this repopped z-bar,that was already cutting into the rod & itself.I drilled out the holes at each end,and pressed-in a solid steel bushing.I trimmed each bushing to give the barrel part of each rod as much journal as possible,but still have room for a washer & the pin.Everything is nice & snug now,with good smooth movement.I also did the same for the hole in the clutch pedal,for the pedal rod.The difference when I was done was 100% better than the sloppy mess before.Everything is nice & crisp now.
I guess my point is you might save some money,but you'll spend more time getting it to work right. And you know where all the repop stuff is being made now don't we.
Here's a picture of some of my stuff.I think you get the idea.
70724-spdparts001.jpg

oldzy

Thx. Any bigger/more pics by chance?

Also, if anyone has some of these original 4-speed parts in decent shape from a 72 Olds to get me started, let me know. I am putting an M21 in most likely. thx

oldzy

ok here a dumb question... which has the better gearing... M20 or M21? By better, I mean faster / get off the line quicker.

I am having a 3.42 posi put in, and likely will keep my 350 engine, but considering looking for a 455 locally from a 1970 or so.

507OLDS

I always had larger pictures,but they usually sucked-up too much space on the page or site.
In 1972,the 4-spd transmission option for the Oldsmobile Cutlass,442,and W30,was the M20.This is what came in the V-code Supremes,W30's,and any 350 or 455-powered Cutlass,in 1972.The M20 has the wider ratio,and you will definitely feel the shifts.In 72,the M20 could be had with the bigger input & output shafts,like the M22's.This started in 1971,with the Oldsmobiles.My 71 442 4-spd convertible was an M20,with the big input & output.I guess it depends on how exact you want to get.An M21 has the closer ratios,and will work just fine as well.
If you can make you way down this way,I can send you back with anything & everything.I parted a rotted 70 cutlass 350/M21 4-spd last year,and I still have every single piece to that drivetrain.The trans is still attached to the engine.I have other parts as well,as you can see in the picture.Not on the bargain side,but they are correct & original.

oldzy

Brian, I sent you an email yesterday. Any pics/parts lists, prices, etc., please send there. tx

It sounds like I will go the M20 route.

My442

More pictures

My442

More pics....I have a lot....

The hardest part to find is in the second picture from the left. It is called a "seal retainer", and it holds the grease to the pivot ball inside the bellhousing.

I looked for years before I found it.

oldzy

The linkage on the left of this pic looks a lot like the linkage on my TH350 with column shift. It even uses the same bracket on the frame below the brake prop. valve. Hmmm... maybe b/c they are the same? Is this the reverse lockout that turns on the reverse lights?

507OLDS

The rod that connects to the column itself is the same for all transmissions.The rare pieces are the rod & swivel on the transmission itself.They were removed from a lot of cars,and not reinstalled.
Paul,
The 70 Cutlass still had the felt washer,but I'd have to look again to see if that washer is one there.That car still had the original belts & plug wires,among other things.
A complete 4-spd set-up from me,every piece,is $2500.00. Just buy a clutch,and make everything pretty.

oldzy

I really can't afford $2500 at once right now (especially before Christmas), but I would like to get started and get many of the smaller parts. ie. pedals, rods/linkage, etc. pretty much everything in the pic below (how is that stuff so purty... repro? replated?) that was posted. I like the idea of a 'console', so I would need that shifter handle type also.

Please send price/pics to the email I sent you already if you have these parts. thx.

442_Mustang

During the long process of rebuilding my car, my trans and linkage disappeared. assume stolen. I havn't got the linkage from the reverse linkage to the column. Anyone interested in just parting with that? By the way, I didn't know the high beam light on automatic cars was red. Cool...

507OLDS

Paul had all of his parts replated the correct color.
I have the 4-spd consoles as well.
I'll sen an itemized list of parts & prices.

My442

I had the M21 rebuilt with M22 gears, so now it whines like heck....

Had it done by Ed Hartnett, one of the best in the business.

I used a CenterForce II clutch, and it works great.

Swapping in a 4 speed is absolutely the best thing I have done to the car.

Nothing like rowing the gears.

507OLDS

I just completed a TH350 to an AutoGear M22 4-spd swap last week,and that car got a Centerforce as well.I also have that clutch in my own cars,and the other conversions that I have done.I'll be doing another conversion to a 71 442 convertible next spring.
Ed is a great guy to do these 4-spds.Among others are David West,Craig Woodruff,and a few others.

507OLDS

Here is a list of parts & prices for all of the 4-spd parts,in good used condition.

pedal assembly - $100.00
neutral safety switch(mounts on clutch pedal) - $75.00
pedal rod - $35.00
z-bar,both ball studs,frame bracket,adjustable fork rod - $150.00
bellhousing,fork,pivot ball - $125.00
transmission core - $500.00-$700.00 for M20 or M21
shifter assembly,linkage,reverse lockout,console handle - $700.00
trans tunnel hump - $125.00
4-spd console - $600.00
floor shift speedo - $50.00
firewall plate with boot & retainer - $50.00
flywheel - $100.00

something like that

oldzy

B... send some big pics to my email pls. It was from olds442@... I sent you an email last week on the 18th. thx

oldzy

Some rods were originally zinc dichromate/gold cadmium (gold)? I thought they were all zinc phosphate (gray).

507OLDS

It could be a year thing or it could be a plant thing,but I have some nice original,low-mile cars with good tell-take signs of how they came.I did part a 72 4-spd convertib;e afew years back,and the linkage was completely covered in grime.Underneath,the rods looked almost NOS,with all the gold color still intact.