charlierogers

seems i have a 3.23 open in my 442. cant believe olds did not make posi/anti slip part of the 442 package. anyway who has/sells gears 3.42 and a posi unit for this axle. i am seeing 507olds does alot of this stuff,,,,, please chime in.

svnt442

You'll need a different carrier from what I understand. I've also heard the Ford 8.8 posi fits in the housing, but Olds507 (Brian Trick) will confirm/deny that.

My car had an open rear as well from the factory. I found a complete housing with a 3.23 posi for a good price about 4 years ago.

orange442

Try www.supercarsunlimited.com for posi units and gears as they show to have them.

507OLDS

The posi carrier that SuperCars sells is a remachined 8.8" Ford unit,that is modified to fit the O-axle housing & gears.These were originally made by Reider Racing,but they were bought-out by Drive Train Specialties(DTS),and they are still offereing them.The units are about $525.00 with the shipping to your door,but you can confirm that with DTS.I got a few from them last year,and as far as I know,they are still making them.The only new gear options you have are from Richmond,and they are the 3:42 & 3:90,and they are about $290.00 once you get them to your door.The Richmond gears are made to fit the 3-series carrier,which is for the factory 3:08/3:23 gears.The correct GM posi unit for the 3:08/3:23 & the Richmonds,is casting # 671,but good luck finding one of those without the whole rear.
The difference in rpms between the 3:23 & the 3:42 is about 400rpm,so the gear swap from 3:23's to 3:42's will not give you a noticable difference.You could just leave your 3:23's in there,and just buy the new posi unit,but that depends on what you plan on doing with the car,or what your expectations are.

bigdaves442

I just picked up a 402227 type "O" 12 bolt 2.73 open rear for my 1970 442 last week. Started researching where to get the posi unit and have only found two places so far, JD Race and supercars unlimited.

monzaz

I have about 11 units
I have some reconditioned units for 379.00 trac lock
New for 439.00 track lock
and I have one Eaton posi 28 spline for 529.00

I will be making true trac units also if these go well.

You do need to use the conversion bearing
LM 102949 bearing
Lm 102911 race

As the carrier bearing hub is heavy duty made for the larger 12 bolt bearing ford uses. 12 bolt olds uses the smaller 10 bolt carrier bearing.

Hope this helps. I am trying to bring pricing to a better area where more Olds guys can build there original 12 bolt rears and not pitch them because building is just too expensive

As for the guy with the open 3.23...Just pop in a posi we have and be done You will only need some carrier shims to fine tune the backlash to .008.009 and you will be good to go!
I toss in most of that kind of stuff for free anyway. Marking compound also if that helps.

TAke care and good luck on the builds, Jim

monzaz

OH and do not give up on the original units if all you need are clutches...
I am working with a shop here and hopefully if we can get a good price I will try to get the clutches made up ...that might be 1/2 year out though . Hang tight. Jim

svnt442

That's good to here about the clutches Jim. Mine are not bad right now, but I would like to freshen them up some time in the future.
I still can't fathom why a rebuild kit for one of the most popular rear ends was discontinued (GM 8.5).

bigdaves442

Jim, spoke to you a few days ago about the Posi you were selling on E-Bay. Thanks for taking the time to talk to me, i really gained allot of knowledge about these units from you. Like i told you on the phone, I'm definitely going to buy from you (i just need to decide what unit i want), you also have some good prices.

monzaz

\
It is all the aftermarket. Whether or not they deem such a project doable or not. When there are so many other rear differential posi units already available. They would rather MAKE EASY money then create NEW expenses to the company on an item that may or may not sell...a profitable AMOUNT.

Profit margin...that is all they care about. CAN WE MAKE MONEY DOING IT.

I have to always make sure I am making SOME also or I go out of business too. ;D lol

I am smaller and can take more of a hit on profit SOMETIMES... But being the smaller guy I do not get the ultra GREAT DEALS from MASSIVE volume buying like the large companies do.

My advantage is I AM A CAR GUY like all of you and understand why and the purpose of keeping these vehicle running with as many American parts as we can.

Like I said making them is NOT the issue making they reasonably price so we all can afford them is the hurdle.

JIm

charlierogers

[quote=monzaz;246258]I have about 11 units
I have some reconditioned units for 289.00 trac lock
New for 399.00 track lock
and I have one Eaton posi 28 spline for 489.00



As for the guy with the open 3.23...Just pop in a posi we have and be done You will only need some carrier shims to fine tune the backlash to .008.009 and you will be good to go!
I toss in most of that kind of stuff for free anyway. Marking compound also if that helps.

i think this was directed at me. been kinda swamped with work {hvac} past weak. will pull axle mid week to verify spline count and get back to you! thanks again

monzaz

Yes I guess it was... lol. As Brian said you are not going to notice MUCH difference in the 3.23 to 3.42 swap beside the fact that you are missing 300.00 from your wallet. lol.

Money better spent would be in new bearings or upgrade your posi unit to more performance eaton or true trac. JIm

charlierogers

well i do have a nice 58 olds rear with a 4.11 posi i could shorten. 9.3 ring gear

507OLDS

Neither one of us are going to rake in the dough doing what we do.We just simply want to be compensated for our time & effort rendered.We can't do it for free,but if you think you can do better,by all means,give it a shot.Let us know how much a dealership,or the local axle guru will charge.

Whether I'm building a rear from scratch,or rebuilding an existing,I charge $30.00/hr. If you don't like it,make it $50.00/hr.
The avarage garage charges $75.00/hr. soo....

I did what Jim did a few years ago,and I have no regrets,but they did take awhile to sell.It was just a matter of the word getting out.I also did a few spools.It will always come down to the final dollar.There just is no cheap route of doing an O-axle.The used parts are rare,therefore expensive,and the new parts are not made in huge quantity,so therefore also a decent chunk of change.Maybe Jim will let you know what the Buick guys are paying for new ring & pinions for the GS 8.2" rears.

One of the reasons that the Ford 8.8 unit was originally chosen to be modified,was the outisde of the ring gear flange.They have a machined-flat surface,no ribs,no it was fairly easy to move over,and drill a new set of holes.Now the newer Eaton carriers are like this,which makes them more desireable to do.Your other types of carriers,like the Tru-Tracs,are also very similar,and can be done.The will never be a cheap date though.You still need to get the carriers,then do the machining,which isn't free.I was able to get the Eatons as an empty carrier,have them machined,then assemble them with what I wanted in them,so there was no wasted parts,and the unit was built the best way possible.I put the original style knurled solid steel clutches in ALL of the Eaton units that I do.They will always be the best for those.Do NOT confuse these with the "flower petal" clutches,which are the same material,but have slots cut into them. The newer Ford units,like the one Jim pictured,will take these Eaton style clutches,and they can make a very nice unit.The Ford clutches make nice paperweights.
As for the clutches for the original 8.5" 10-bolt units,and the 12-bolt O-axle units,I did have insight of them being discontinued,so I bought as many sets as I could.About the time they became discontinued,Ratech was selling them,but they have since discontinued them as well.There are places like DTS that have sets,for about $160.00/set,if they still have them.If a nice clutch can be made again,that would be great,but again,don't look for them to be dirt cheap either.The units Jim has available are great alternatives,and the prices are great as well.If you think there is some sort of way to build the O-axle for less,there isn't.One way or another,you will have $X into it.Can you get units for less than what SuperCars is selling them?Yes,so there you go.

monzaz

All I am trying to do is keep the olds 12 bolt an alternative just like we did with the 10 bolt 8.2 Buick rear for the stage guys. IF you NEED this rear in your car for originality then this help those guys out as it is not a dead stick or extremely over priced.

Just remember too... IF they do not sell I do not build them anymore. Just thought I could get them out there for a BETTER price which I think they are.

Jim
J D

charlierogers

this was said as a joke,,,,, should of maybe put this "" at the end instead of this "". anyway i think both monzaz and 507olds are doing a great thing helping keeping the type O alive! At a affordable price.

Aceshigh

DUDE!!!!!


I have one sitting in my garage looking for a new home in the NW Suburbs of Chi-town!!!!
I'd have dumped mine off to you dirt cheap, with the springs, and drums too.
I just yanked it for a Chevy 12 bolt with an Eaton posi and 3.73's last summer.

Dude, that's VERY VERY reasonable rates.

J-(Chicago)

How cheap is dirt cheap? I'll come get that junk out of your garage.

Aceshigh

PM Sent.

507OLDS

I do realize that the buyer will always look at the final number.It's all about cost.Whether it's a 12-bolt o-axle,8.5" 10-bolt,12-bolt Chevy,or whatever.What some people seem to get confused is what the rear costs,and what I am charging.If I sell a rebuilt 8.5" 10-bolt for $950.00,I am NOT making $950.00.You'd be surprised how many people think that I do.
As for the 12-bolt O-axle,any time I get an inquiry to build one,I have to ask the customer what the purpose is with the car.If they are doing a concours restoration,and the O-axle is the correct rear,then fine,that is the route we will take.If it is more of a custom application,or something that originality doesn't matter,then I will suggest the 8.5" 10-bolt,since they are cheaper to build,and the parts are more readily available.The only added cost to swapping from a 12-bolt O-axle,to an 8.5" 10-bolt is that you need to shorten the driveshaft,which is another cost that you need to figure,when finding the total cost of getting the car up & running again.The Chevelle guys are even catching onto this as well.They can do an 8.5" 10-bolt,instead of the more expensive 12-bolt Chevy,and still get the strength that they want.

monzaz

Finding these core housings in good usable shape too is another thing that people just assume are popping up in my shop ...growing like little rear differential trees. It is a lot to swap meet junk yard pick and such to get cores to build for everyone. lol

Boy if I had Nickel for every time a friend would say I am ROLLING IN DOUGH... When people come and pick-up the rears and shuffle out 1000-1500 in cash. They think that is the profit...LOL.

RIGHT! If you only knew what Summit and Jegs were getting the parts for and reselling....lol. BUT remember too that those big companies have retirement plans and 401K health insurance to pay to all their employees.

Money makes the economy go around - we all need to buy from our own small businesses and shops in home town areas to pull ourselves up out of this bunk...

I wish everyone a fruitful better year! Take care all, Jim

507OLDS

Yes,there is a huge market-up on auto parts,period,everywhere.

Aceshigh

Rock Auto seems to be the lowest priced out there I've found.


Unless it's a GM factory piece, then I get it from www.GMPartsDirect.com
Waaaaaay cheaper then going to a dealership.....by nearly 50%-70% cheaper.

junior supercar

crap. jeremy may have beat me to it. but how cheap is dirt cheap?

507OLDS

Everything takes research & price shopping.Nobody has every piece that is cheaper than the other.However,you also need to compare apples to apples. For example,the bearings,yes,you can get a bearing kit from Summit,that is everything except the axle bearings,for about $80.00,BUT they are Koyo brand.Those same pieces that I use,made by Timken,are roughly $100.00,and $150.00 including the axle bearings & seals.
If I or Jim,or anyone else,uses some sort of faulty or inferior part,and it fails,does the part ever get blamed? Hardly.The builder will get blamed for messing something up.I use what I have the best experience & confidence with. There are some situations,like the O-axle gears,which are only available from Richmond,that doesn't leave you any options.The Richmonds seem to be a little more finnicky to set-up,but they are fine.When I have done repair work on an O-axle with Richmonds,it is simply because they were not set-up properly.It is usually the result of someone setting the gears to the numbers scribed on the gears,and either not running a pattern check,or not understanding what pattern to look for.

Aceshigh

I'm just looking for maybe $200 to offload it. Springs and brakes included.
I have some cheapie KYB brand new shocks I will send off with it for $250 total.

I was going to clean it up and sell it for more, but I'm lazy.
It's ready to go, it literally just came out last summer. No problems. I just upgraded.
2010JunOlds12BoltRemoved.jpg

507OLDS

How much for those brake drums? I'll buy those.

monzaz

Brian, I have an older olds /pontiac eraly or late 60's full size drum been saving...??? for what reason ??? You can have it for the price of shipping. It looks similar to the ones pictures and has good meat left in the drum.

Jim

charlierogers

i will take it if still available!

507OLDS

Jim,
I know what drums you are talking about.Those puppies are big.I need the drums just like that for the A-body pattern & brakes.Those are original 70 rear drums.
Jim,
I think awhile back you said you had an empty #672 carrier.If you still have that,I would be interested in that.

Aceshigh

Yep, first come with $$$ = first served.

I just PM'd ya with my mobile #.
Leave me a message if you don't get a hold of me letting me know where you're at.


If I can offload the entire rear as one big bolt in and go piece I'd rather do that.
I know it's 100% functional and ready to go in a car this way = more attractive.

Let me see what I can do tho.

joesw31

pm sent

junior supercar

your call. If he can use it immediately, by all means go for it. I'm in no hurry. 2.78 gears and open carrier? although I'm really only interested in the axles and housing as I have my own gears and carrier.

507OLDS

Junior,
Bare housings can be shipped FedEx ground by simply wrapping them in cellethane,and sticking a label on it.If you did need the shafts,they can go in a 2nd box.Everything else in there is dumpster food.

Aceshigh

My rear is still available.

Charlie backed out and went another route.

junior supercar

3.23? 3.07? 2.41? 3.91? apologies if I missed where you said the ratio

Aceshigh

Sorry, I didn't know you were asking.
I thought you knew, and were pointing it out.

Yes, open carrier, 2.78 gear.
I verified with the code on the steel tube before yanking it.