plee3 64Olds

I have been working hard on the 64 Cutlass. I have come to a few road blocks. The alternator belt and the power steering belt are not aligned with the harmonoic balancer or the waterpump pulley. Its like the water pump pulley sits about 1/2in forward towards the radiator causing the belts to be out of alignment. How should I proceed to correct that situation?? Also, I would like to make sure what type of engine that I have. The previous owner stated that it is a 350 out of a 76 Cutlass. I would like to know if that holds true. I would like to go to the auto parts store and give them the correct engine size and year. I have attached a couple of pics that has numbers in certain locations:
100_3785.jpg

I got these numbers right behind the water pump. the numbers are 395558 and a big 2 at the end

100_3789.jpg

These numbers are on the cylinder head it is 411 929

100_3791.jpg

these numbers were on the back of the intake manifold. 41990 D1 CB

100_3758-1.jpg

here is the cowl tag.

joe_padavano

Block is a generic 1968-1976 350 casting. The heads are 1973-1976 #8 heads. Pulley alignment problems are usually caused by using mismatched water pump, pulleys, and accessory brackets. If you have the correct, one-year-only 1964 water pump on this 350 with the original pulley, then I suspect the balancer pulley is the wrong one.

HolidayCoupe

Either that or the engine came with A/C and pullies were switched.

plee3 64Olds

Excellent information Joe! where can I find out what these numbers mean?? I examined the belt problem a little more in detail. I think water pump or the water pump pulley is the culprit of the problem. That is the only pulley that is out of alignment which causes the belts to be out of alignment too. It seems to me that if the water pump pulley was drawn in about 1/2in, which would square away the alignment issue. I heard of a short nose water pump. Do these water pumps fit all years?? Would this be something for me to look into?? I didn’t want to put spacers behind the alt and power steering bracket to compensate for the alignment. It seems best to correct the water pump or water pump pulley because that is common to both belts. That is why I wanted to make sure what year specifically is this engine soI can tell the parts person what I have. Can anyone decode the cowl tag??

Jamesbo

64= 1964
32=Cutlass
37=Holiday Coupe
LA= Lancing MI assembly plant
715 production sequence
960=Black interior
P-P =Pacific mist [top and bottom]

joe_padavano

You have missed the fact that the car is a 1964 Cutlass with the one-year-only water pump that puts the inlet on the DRIVER'S side. Note this photo of his engine compartment:

100_3751.jpg

Obviously the previous owner transferred the 1964 water pump and accessory brackets to the 350, since these parts are unique to 1964. Since the accessory pulleys line up with the water pump, I'm guessing that the car still has the crank pulley from the 350, which would be the problem.

Edit: Wait, is it the water pump pulley that's off, or the crank pulley? In any case the car obviously has the correct 1964 water pump.

plee3 64Olds

Excellent information! I love this site!

plee3 64Olds

Im going to say that the water pump and water pump pulley is our problem (not all the way sure). do you think I have to get the correct year water pump?? And if I do, will it be the same setup?? (both inlet and outlet on the same side as the radiator?? Should I go with my original method which was to put spacers behind both alt bracket and power steering bracket to bring out the belts to align it with the water pump??

plee3 64Olds

Ok, I’ve been doing some research and came up with some ideas:

1. I learned that our Olds sport 3 different types of water pumps. 5 1/8, 5 5/8 and 6 1/8 (I’m not for sure about the last one but there are 3 different sizes) The longer w/p's are for A/C. the shorter are for non A/C. Should I pick up a w/p that is shorter than what I have??

2. There have been a few people that have had this problem and just shimmed the alt. and power steering bracket to line up the belts. This seems like a cheap alternative that I would not mind trying. What are you guys/gals opinion??

joe_padavano

One more try...

The water pump info you cite applies to the 1965-1990 pumps. Your 1964 pump is ONE YEAR ONLY and is different from all those others.

As for shims, the pulleys lined up when the car left the factory. There's no reason why the correct parts won't line now.

greenslade

is it possible that the pully on the water pump is incorrect.or does the pully come with the pump.

sicky olds

from what i remember when i changed my water pump the pulley was seperate but i could be mistaken/not know what i am talkin about lol

MDchanic

Or, someone(s) could have mixed and matched pulleys over the years, based on what "looked right" at the moment...

(not trying to be a PIA )

- Eric

joe_padavano

The engine is a mid-70s 350 with 1964 pump and brackets, so I'd say yeah, parts have been mixed and matched...

Given the fact that the idiot previous owner cut the alternator bracket to clear the wires instead of reclocking the rear frame of the alternator, he was probably not a rocket scientist.

Check this out:

100_3757.jpg

MDchanic

Okay, that IS funny.

... and, of course, by "mix and match," I didn't mean, "took all of the pulleys and brackets neatly off of old motor and put on new motor," but rather, "didn't like the way one or two looked, and so bolted on some others he had lying around."



- Eric

plee3 64Olds

Ok, I got you. Change the water pump. I will keep you guys updated.

joe_padavano

Just so we're clear, you cannot use the commonly available 1965-90 water pumps on your car. The inlet for the lower radiator hose will be on the other side. That was my whole point. You are stuck with a 1964 pump like the one you have unless you get your radiator modified to move the lower outlet to the passenger side. You apparently need to find the correct water pump pulley.

Rock Auto only lists one length pump for a 1964, Cardone P/N 58291. There does not appear to be a shorter one available:



For reference, here is the more common 1965-90 pump. Note that the inlet is on the opposite side:

plee3 64Olds

Hmmm, Interesting. I understand now. No need for a w/p. Find another pulley that will sit back further. I got you! Off to the junkyards I go!

joe_padavano

To help your search, pretty much all GM water pumps have the same four bolt pattern, so your pulley search is not limited to Olds motors.

greenslade

i think he got the message.lol

Rickman48

You can lead a horse to water, but ---------------------!!

plee3 64Olds

Ok Gentlemen Here is an update:

This weekend I was on the hunt searching for a water pump pulley at my favorite junk yards here in the city. WOW! GM really made a lot of different water pump pulleys! LOL! Well, I saw an 80 Monte Carlo and a 76 Buick Regal. Both were 350's. The Monte Carlo had a w/p pulley that had 3 rows (A/C). The Regal had 2 rows (Non A/C. I got 2 just in case). I tried to install the 1 with 3 rows. It wouldn’t fit. So I went to the machine shop at work and used a band saw to cut off the 3rd row pulley. WALA! Everything lined up perfectly! No need to shim anything. All belts are aligned! Thank all of you for your assistance! I really appreciate it all! Well, I’m slowly coming along with my build. I should be able to pull her out next weekend!

plee3 64Olds

Yes I got the message! LOL!! Somtimes Im a little slow upstairs! LOL

MDchanic

And, THAT, my friends, is the kind of good ol' American ingenuity we see less and less of these days.

(And, no, I'm NOT being sarcastic. For a change.)

- Eric

greenslade

congrats ,smart fix!

plee3 64Olds

Thanks for the compliment! Im really excited to have a real Hot Rod for the summer. One of my life's dream.

Thanks!

plee3 64Olds

One more question, I have an electric fuel pump that is mounted on the inner fender well and it is mounted vertically. Is it ok to have the fuel pump mounted vertically?? Should I mount it horizontally?? The reason I asked the question is because I lose fuel pressure intermittently. when I remove one of the hoses and put it back on, then pressure returns. This happened to me 3 times. is this pump mounted correctly?? its on the left lower side.

100_3750.jpg

joe_padavano

It depends on the brand and design of the pump. More importantly, electric pumps prefer to push fuel rather than suck it and should be mounted near the tank, with the pump mounted below the level of the tank so it self primes. Yours may be mounted too high and would certainly prefer to be mounted in the back.

plee3 64Olds

Ok, I understand the push effect. I will mount it in the back and see what happens. I will keep you posted.

plee3 64Olds

After reading multiple posts about the Mr. Gasket fuel pump #12S I have, I’m leaning to returning the fuel lines back to the original manual pump. I’ve read that they fail quite often. I don’t really understand why the previous owner put an electric fuel pump on?? My guess is that he couldn’t get it started and figured that he didn’t have the pressure he need. I understand why the car wouldn’t start in the beginning. It was out of timing and there were some wires shorted under the dash. There is a brand new manual fuel pump on the engine mounted and ready to go. Should I go for the win and dump that stupid looking Mr. Gasket fuel pump?? Does anyone have any experiences dealing with this specific fuel pump?? I also read that the carb only requires 3-4 psi of pressure?? is that true?? What do you think I should do??

MDchanic

If you think the aftermarket pump is giving you trouble, and you've got a factory pump already attached to the engine right there, I'd just move the lines over and see what happens. It'll only cost you a few minutes.
Always better to have it hooked up the way the gods of Oldsmobile intended, anyway, right?

- Eric

plee3 64Olds

I thought so! This is an easy swap. Feedback comming soon.

plee3 64Olds

Well, no luck on the manual fuel pump. There wasn’t any flow out of the pump at all. I did notice that the fuel pump arm had some groves carved into it like something was rubbing against it. Can’t quite understand that. Looks like I have to go back to the electric fuel pump. I read alot of bad reviews about this Mr. Gasket fuel pump. I rather purchase a better performing pump. What would be a decent pump that would last more than a couple of months??

MDchanic

A new mechanical pump would probably be cheaper.

- Eric

plee3 64Olds

I did some more tinkering with that Mr. Gasket fuel pump. I mounted in a perfect location towards the gas tank, in a somewhat downward position, with regulator and gauge in line. Started up fine. I let it run for about 30 min. at idle to make sure things were cool. I figures since it did not cut off during the idling process, I thought that it was time to take a spin. I drive it around the block and before I can get home the dam fuel pump lost pressure! (Mr. Gasket fuel pumps will dissapoint you) LOL! I decided to go to Napa Auto Parts instead of Auto Zone this time. I told the Customer Service Rep. my situation. He suggested a Posi Flow. At first I was skeptical about another plastic wrapped fuel pump. I really didn’t have a choice. My car was stuck on the street. I purchased the pump and installed it right away. Wow! What a difference! I drove the car for awhile and took it to the muffler shop to get a set of 40 series flowmasters installed. Wow again! What a difference! The tone of the exhaust is perfect! I drove the car all day without a problem. It drives great! I still have a long way to go. I’m very pleased about the performance of the vehicle at the moment. I really thank you all for all of the support! I am very pleased to be a member of this forum!