dmcianfa

Does the hardtop have the same beefy frame makeup as the convertible. Also, does the '64 B-09 (442) have the same beefy frame as the convertible?

joe_padavano

Nope. Hardtops (Holiday Coupes) and post cars (Sport or Club Coupes) got the open C-section frame. Convertibles got the box frame. From 1964-67, however, you could get an optional "heavy duty" frame under the Holiday and Sport Coupes. Of course, this was just the boxed convertible frame.

As an interesting aside, the boxed frame is made up of two C-shaped sections with the open sides welded together to form a box. The outer part of the box frame uses the same rail stampings as the open frame.

Bluevista

For what its worth the Vista Cruiser also has a boxed frame because of the additional length, regular wagons are open.

dmcianfa

I was under the impression that the hardtops, like the convertibles, had the HD frame due to no "post" or support provided between the two side windows. Have you seen any hardtops (no post versions) without a boxed HD frame?

joe_padavano

Yeah, every one of the 18 or so I've owned, including the five that I have right now. That includes the Hurst/Olds, two W-30s, one 442, and one Cutlass parts car. In fact, I've never seen a hardtop with the HD frame, though it is shown as an option in the factory order sheets.

stan 65 cutlass

my 65 hardtop has a regular open frame, they all did, the 65 442 had a beefier rear section

dmcianfa

interesting

dmcianfa

So is the entire frame boxed or just the rear section on the '64 442's as well?

joe_padavano

I'll type more slowly this time.

Once again, ALL 1964-1972 A-body hardtops got the open channel frame UNLESS you ordered the optional HD frame.

Ranzan

:d

dmcianfa

That's not what I meant JOE, I got you the first time. I meant did the 442's have a complete boxed in frame from front rails to back rails in '64 or just the rear section alone being boxed. Jesus, folks on this forum are very critical sometimes. Kinda makes you want to not post anything at all here at times.

TK-65

I dont think you did get him the first time. Think about it, the HD frame, Heavy Duty so you dont ask me what HD means, is the convertible boxed frame. Which was standard on the vert and optional on everything else. Even thought is was optional the boxed frame has never been seen under anything but a vert.

So that means an open channel frame was standard on the F85, the Cutlass and yes, the 442. Thats what he posted. In not so many words.

People are very nice here, but get annoyed when someone asks a question, then questions whether the person knows what he is really talking about, or keeps asking the same thing thinking the answer may change.

joe_padavano

Thanks. I'm going to take my heart medication now...

joe_padavano

And just in case this might have been part of the confusion, the 442, Cutlass, F-85, Vista Cruiser, Cutlass Supreme, and Cutlass Cruiser were all A-body cars for the 1964-1972 model years, at a minimum.

dmcianfa

Oh, I see what's going on here. Proceed.

For the record, I did understand him the first time. Forget it. I'll go to another forum to get information without the sarcasm and belittling. Now I know why folks from the upper midwest really don't like travelling to other parts of the country. Just not the same level of courtesy I guess. So sorry I asked a question, I'll be sure to kneel before the oldsmobile gods next time I ask a stupid one. Thanks for making me feel like I'm in grade school again though!!!! appreciate that.

Jamesbo

Does all this mean Allan's Vista got special ordered with a box frame? I'm a little confused my self.

He states, " Vista get a boxed frame because of the extra length and regular wagons are opened"

TK-65

Im from Michigan.

Your questions are not the problem, its not accepting the answers. Read this thread, Joe answered you 5 hours after you posted your question. Then today you asked it AGAIN. So how is that getting what he said?

dmcianfa

The reply five hours after the intial question didn't address where the 442 stood in '64 and in the equation, which is an item I was also interested in. Yes, he explained the coupes and hardtops correctly, and I know the 442 came in both as well as convertibles, ect.., but he didn't relay that if the '64 442 explicitely came standard with the HD (boxed) frame. Therefore I tried to clarify that some by asking the 442 question and if the HD frame was standard with the '64 442 or if it was just a rear boxed frame or if it could be an open frame as well all in seperate replies. Then he fired back with sarcasm and you with the belittling, so maybe now you will understand. When you know the answers to the questions it is obviously easy to understand, but when you don't, clarification is sometimes needed with the terminology and the jargon that is spoken. Maybe you can at least try to understand that, no? Maybe sometime in your life you didn't know everything and needed clarification on something, no? If you didn't or your physically or mentally incapable of understanding that, again, I am sorry and I hope you will not shoot lightening bolts at me or sentence me to the depths of hell, oh chosen one. What will make you happy, huh? Will it be when I admit I'm stupid when it comes to oldsmobiles and then you'll quit harassing me. If that be so, then I submit and most humbly admit to not having even a scosh of the knowledge you have regarding anything oldsmobile. Jeeesh!!!Boy, one quickly finds out who not to get involved with here don't they. Some people just like to argue I suppose. I'm guessing those types don't really find any friends to help them refurbish their cars or simply can't find anyone to help them, they just try to show it off to them and tell them how amazing they are while "real" folks laugh behind their backs at the degree of pompousness and arrogance that is shown before them. I would just rather have the admin delete this entire thread, what a waste of bandwith!!

lshlsh2

Ok I think some deep breaths are needed. I think this is a misunderstanding that is going to get blown way out of proportion.
Nobody is trying to be rude on propose and generally this is a very good site.

mY.02

Jon69

Quote:

Originally Posted by stan 65 cutlass

my 65 hardtop has a regular open frame, they all did, the 65 442 had a beefier rear section

Re-reading this thread, the source of the confusion comes in here. The comment that a 65 442 had a "beefier" rear frame section in the context of boxed "HD" frames vs an open frame could be read to imply that the rear of the frame was boxed.
It doesn't say that.
I make no claim to know if it was or was not.
But....
Based on Joe's reply I would take it that the boxing sections (which I have recently become all to familiar with) were not present.

So correct me if I'm wrong, and I really don't mind if you do, what I get out of this is...
The 65 442 may or may not have had structural reinforcement in the rear section of the frame, it may or may not have been standard for a 442. The lack of the rather large squished "V" stampings welded to the inboard center sections of the "C" channel frame would classify it as a standard frame.

For the record, I have nothing but good things to say about this forum.

Jon

dmcianfa

I beg to differ

dmcianfa

You my friend have taken the words straight from my mouth. That was part of the reason I was confused as well. Thank you for your input Jon and well put.

Sorry if I get upset at those that seem to feel better about making fun or chastising those that may be confused. Reminds me of the bully on the playground that desperately needs a whooping himself. Anway, back to real topics huh.

joe_padavano

That's also correct. VCs got boxed frames, lesser A-body wagons did not.

joe_padavano

In the interest of clarifying that original response so that it is completely unambiguous, I'll try again.


Nope. Hardtops (Holiday Coupes) and post cars (Sport or Club Coupes) got the open C-section frame. Convertibles got the box frame. From 1964-67, however, you could get an optional "heavy duty" frame under the Holiday and Sport Coupes. Of course, this was just the boxed convertible frame.

The 442 was an option package on certain F-85 and Cutlass models for the 1964-1967 model years. As such, the answer to the first question applies here as well.

And just so the answer is perfectly clear, the only 1964 442s to get the fully boxed frame were the convertibles or those cars equipped with the optional HD frame. All other 442s in 1964 came with an open section frame. Be aware that the boxed vs. open section distinction only applies to the straight part of the frame under the rockers. On ALL A-body cars (and again, just to be clear, the 442 is an A-body car in the 1964 model year) the frame is fully boxed forward of the firewall and on the kickups over the rear axle.

Ranzan

Joe & TK-65 have both been very good for this site What I think has happened as well is miscommunication it isn`t like a real conversation person to person... it is just typed words on the web....stuff like this does happen and that is when clarification needs to made... Frustration can set in sometimes trust me I have been there everyone on this board is here to help out fellow Olds owners no question

TK-65

dmcianfa, Im sorry if I offended you. I dont know everything about these cars. I learn new stuff all the time. Thats what places like this are for.

dmcianfa

I also apologize. I should be more descriptive when asking questions, but just learning all this, I'm not always sure I'm even asking the correct questions. For instance. I didn't even know in all A-body cars the point of interest in terms of "HD/Boxed in" frame applies to the frame rail underneath the rocker panels and all front and rear sections are fully boxed, as Joe stated, which is most likely why I was so confused I think. Never knew that.hmmmm Weird.

dmcianfa

I think this sums it up well as I understand now. Thanks Joe. This guy is good. Your wife must love all those olds you have too. I would have a hard time trying to convince my wife to agree for me to buy a parts car!! LOL

joe_padavano

Fortunately, my wife's hobby is thoroughbred horses, so I don't even have the most expensive hobby in the family. Owning a farm (for the horses, yeah..., that's the ticket) leaves room for a lot of parts cars.

oberscars

Joe you seem to be the most knowlegable about the olds cutlass. I have a 64 convertible in need of a new frame. Will all 64-67 A-Body Convertible frames fit my car?
Bill

joe_padavano

Bill,

There are apparently some detail differences in how the core support mounts, but the basic frames are the same.

oberscars

Thanks Joe much appreciated!