folks, this is my first classic car and its a learning process for me i guess.

today was about 36 degrees celsius, went for a fair drive today, had it parked at a friends place for a couple hrs while inside (no shade available) then went for cruise along one of perth's typical weekend car cruising spots (freo cap strip for anyone whose been here )

anyway, dropped my friend home, drove around the corner and the car stalled going around a corner (auto transmission). Engine would wirr but not kick over. Coolant levels are ok, oil slightly low but certainly not dry.

Eventually friend pops around we jump the car using his cables and it gets home safely via the freeway. Have given it another try tonight and starts fine (6 hrs after said incident).

My take on it is being outside on a hot day combined with very slow speed driving may have overheated the engine hence the stall and then not wanting to start. Car did have the mechanical once over prior to purchase, plugs have been checked and battery is ok. I would appreciate any pointers or anyone who has had a similar problem. If the heat is an issue (and it does get bloody hot here ) i may just need to get a fan for cooling when driving at low and stop/start speed when natural air flow is quite low.

a penny for your thoughts ladies and gentlemen excuse the long post, tried to fit in as many observations as possible.

 

I once had a simular problem on a 68. It wouldn't start when engine was hot. It was the positive cable at the starter. It was bad.
Larry

 

Can tell you're new! Okay, first thing is that you need to tell us what car you have!!

 

WTF! OK, now that I've chumped you by calling you a "newbie," I'll direct you to tell us what the heck kind of car you have. LOL!
I think W Machine want's to tell you he has some status here, must be an Old-Timer, and instead of help you, point out the mistake you made right off the bat. LOL!
Nice car, orthoK, a beauty infact. The first reply may be "on it." Do you go over the car regularly, tighten and check everything? Good Luck. Sounds like a "process of elimination" thing. Sometimes the simple things tend to "catch us" when we're looking f/ something more complex.

 

Not at all Tex. I didn't, nor do I still see any reference to what car has, by pic or description. Asking for help without telling us car you have is just a rookie mistake, that's all. It is a waste to speculate on solutions without knowing what we're starting with. Has nothing to do with status or anything else, and it is best not to try to give him the wrong impression of me or CO, for that matter.
Maybe I'm missing something here, because apparently you you like the looks of a car that I can't see.

 

Always happy to see another member from down under. What year of Olds do you have and what engine does it have. There are a number of things to look at when you car won't start when its hot. The most common is loose or corroded battery terminals, bad battery cables or inproper grounding, loose on missing ground straps. Check all of these first. Even if the engine spins, the starter might be drawing so much power there is not enough left to fire the coil.

 

Remember, the O.P. is from Australia, right now, it's pretty warm there. I'm going to take a guess on vapor lock.

 

Weak Starter?

 

BTW. Nice 71 cutlass.

 

ta yep its a 71 cutlass folks. have put up a few posts in the newbie forum with pics so was on autopilot on that one. engine its running is a 350 rocket.

 

No prob. I think I was being somewhat of an ***, not completely though. Understood.

 

jim and wmachine- no offense taken it was 11 at night when i put up my first post, was tired and forgot to put what car i've got. have been on other bike forums before where it can get a bit heated, all i took from wmachine's post was that i missed a pretty crucial detail

no wrong impressions of anyone or CO taken, seems like a very nice bunch of people here

 

Lots of informative past threads, as well.

I nearly posted a question about the difference between police package wheel cylinders and regular, for a 1965 Delta 88, when it occurred to me to search the archives - where I found a thread asking about the difference between, yes, the police package wheel cylinders and the regular on a 1965 Delta 88...

And the answer I needed was there, as well. :-)

 

Nice '71

 

thanks erinyes, have had a search but not much luck, some on other models but not mine that i could find.

well, today could not be a better change of conditions- bloody cold (under 20 degrees) pissing down rain and even some golf ball sized hail. no i didn't take the car out in that weather just tried to start it up and kicked over straight away, i may need to do something to improve the air flow under lower speeds as it seems to be aok in colder conditions

 

Try a spacer under the carb. or if you have padding under the hood remove it and see if that helps.

Still a very good idea to check/replace battery cables and wiring to the starter.

 

thanks mate will do that. no padding under the hood, will have a look under the carb when its daylight. i've got the car booked in with a car sparky this week so i can get a car alarm installed, i'll ask them to check it over while its in.

 

Good idea. If the guy is a competent installation tech he will be able to make a thorough inspection of your primary wiring and the grounds as was recommended. It is all about current when you are driving the starter motor as it probably draws the most current of anything on the car. Current flow is degraded by resistance, resistance is caused by old/failing/weak wiring and connections. Your battery may be healthy and strong to begin with, but it can be drained quickly in that kind of condition and soon fail. Then one thinks "Oh, it was a bad battery", they replace it and are back in the same situation they started in. Finally, you may have a weak starter and if you are running headers the heat radiated from them can exacerbate the problem so look at that too.

 

thanks dan, great advice

 

Check the starter. I had a problem like this when I first picked up my 70. On the way home it overheated and caused the starter to give out.

What Im guessing that happen to you is the starter solenoid got to hot to work and by time your friend got there it cooled off enough to start the engine again. Which from my understanding is a pretty common problem on Olds.

 

Hi; X2 on the vapour lock!!

 

So in other words, when the car is very hot, the starter turns very slowly as if the battery is dead? All the idiot lights dim considerably also?

If so, then this is a known problem. First, find out how hot the car is getting. An IR thermometer works great - take its temperature at the front of the intake. Should be less than 200* tops
Fan clutch could be shot, or other cooling issues. Fan should be blowing large amounts of air when hot - the roaring sound should be loud and distinct.

These stock starters do have heat soak issues. Mine does, but after I fixed the overheating issues, I never had that problem again.
Check to see if you have the side brace on the starter, connecting to the block. If not, get a wide 455 bracket to act as a heatshield. The exhaust pipe is very close to the starter and starter does not like it...
See here:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ter-brace.html

 

thanks for the post

it didn't seem like a flat battery, i've had it before on other cars. the lights didn't dim at all, and the engine whirred as if starting it, but just wouldn't kick over.

i suspect it may be a heat problem, as the car was running fine, stalled and then took awhile to kick up again.

i'll check out the link you posted as well. thanks a heap

 

If the engine turned bit did not fire then you have a hot start problem, perhaps vapor lock. If the starter motor turned but the engine did not then it is your starter solenoid.

 

thanks oldsguy. it was definitely the former.

 

Vapor lock, or perhaps a dying coil. I've had a bad coil that would get hot and shut the car down and not start for a bit. But it really does sound more like a vapor lock than anything. If the car had over heated you would have smelled it and it would have been running like crap before it happened. Stick a few wooden clothes pins on the metal fuel line running from the fuel pump up to the carb. Make sure you have a good 50/50 coolant mix in the radiator as well. Just because you live down under dosent mean you dont need antifreeze/coolant. Pure water is a big no no. Pick up some water wetter as well. You can find it at most parts stores and it's worth the expense when dealing with old cooling systems.

 

Okay, so starter is cranking the engine okay but it is not firing.
I have heard of bad coils doing that since they are mounted to the hot intake. You could try to isolate the coil from the hot engine to see if that helps; if so then replace the coil.

 

I have had that happen with a couple of older cars as well and it turned out to be a bad coil. As coils get older they still can work but they will get weaker. That, combined with the heat, could have been your issue. Otherwise, as others stated, it might be vapor lock.

 

thanks for the help all
i had topped up the coolant previously and levels were ok on the day.
the car did not do typical overheat stuff (ie steam/smoke from engine, bad smell) and was running as per normal, it just shut down as if stalling and then would not kick over when i tried it again.
I'll book the car in for a once-over with our local v8 specialist who has a pretty good reputation here and mention all the things brought up. Again, much appreciated and great having such a big knowledge resource to tap into.

 

I'll bet on vapor lock. Insulate the line from the fuel pump to the carb. Make sure the fuel line is not touching or run close to hot metal anywhere.
Like someone earlier said, put an insulated spacer under the carb.
Also make sure your fan clutch is in good working order. If you can spin the fan clutch easily and it continues for a second or two, while the engine is _NOT_ running, or you run the engine and shut it off and the fan continues for a couple of seconds, you need to replace it.

Gene

 

Folks, this all happened a while ago but just putting an ending to this for anyone else who comes across this problem. Turns out the exhaust fan was out of position, it was repositioned and improved two things- 1. the engine temp when running and no further problems with vapor lock. From memory the day it conked out it was close to 40 celsius and had been busy cruising a well populated strip at a pretty slow pace 2. a really awful grinding sound during reversing. The car had been like this since i purchased it but as the engine pitches into reverse it was catching.
Since the fan was repositioned no further problems. So those whose money was on vapor lock were right, due to reduced air flow and the dry hot perth climate. Am lucky to have a great mechanic here in perth who exclusively works only on "old ****" in his words but gives me the rundown each time, so i'm picking up some knowledge on the way.

Russ

 

G'day, Russ;

One thing to consider, do you have the stock air cleaner or an aftermarket pancake style?. The red hot underbonnet temperatures wont help hot starting.

Great place, Perth, I was there in '08 and went to the February top fuel meeting. Turned out the managers wife was from my home town in Pommyland, during a lull in proceedings I was invited to race control where they put a tv camera on me and had a quick interview.

Roger.

 

Roger I'll have a look when the suns up, thanks for the tip. Has been running well this year with no heat issues.
Good to hear you made it this way, I like it here but I'm biased we have a lot of folks here from the mother country, go anywhere near the coast and they'll be working on their tans