I'm a basic newb so don't groan yet. Spotted a private Craigslist ad showing a '67, 442 with a console shift, automatic. With the whole 4-4-2 thing having "four-speed" in there, did Olds indeed offer 442's with automatics back in the day? If so, were they special order optioned or what?

So many clones and "tribute" cars out there it's getting hard to tell 'em apart.

 

Yes.

There may have been more made with TH400s than 4-speeds.

- Eric

 

64 was the first and only year 442's were all 4spds. 65 and later 442's were available with automatics and 3 and 4 spd manual transmissions.

Henry

 

In '64, the so-called saying was that 4-4-2 stood for 4-spd, 4-barrel, dual exhaust.

From '65 on, the saying was referred to as 400 engine, 4 barrel, dual exhaust. The 400 engine was new to the 4-4-2 in '65. The engine in the '64 4-4-2 was a beefed up 330.

Randy C.

 

Ah, now there's a nice summary from the wealth of knowledge up here. Guess I should have researched for Wiki's or something but coming to the water seems more fun.

So, the term 442 is not documented? Randy suggests "so-called" as in myth or legend. Interesting??? Folk lore built from a mysterious factory designation.

 

No, its not a myth, what randy posted is right on, it was listed in Oldsmobile marketing.
In 64 442 meant one thing... in 65+ it meant another
in 1970 when the 455 became available the meaning (4 - for 400ci) changed again.

 

^^ Okay,so that's the deal. Thanks.

Not that one could get confused with the various meanings. ( marketing idiots)

 

The 64 July Hot Rod ad proves the marketing correct on the original meaning.




65 Oldsmobile commercial confirms the cubic inch change.

 

That TV ad made me dizzy. Guess marketing called out to cool guys in sunglasses that drive nutty on beaches to take note of their happening land sled slipping through sand and tree trunks. What could be better?

Yeah, I would've wanted one.

 

Actually, the "442" nomenclature stopped being relevant after the 1965 model year. For 1966, you could buy a 4-6-2 (the L69 Tri Carb option). For 1968 you could get a 4-2-2 (the Turnpike Cruiser option - yes it was available in 1967, but not on a 442). In 1972 you could get a 3.5-2-1.

It only got worse from there (2.3-2-1, anyone, or how about a 1.4-1-1, the Quad 442). I guess if you reverted to the 1964 nomenclature, those V6 cars could have been 5-2-1s.

 

Okay, please stop now Joe. (my head just exploded)

Just to fire up another subject, while we're on this subject. Seems this forum's attitude for cloning "Tribute" cars is relaxed. In another world (I unfortunately live in) badging and bolting goodies on your grocery getting BMW 325I to clone an Autobaun ripping M3 is a Cardinal Sin! You will be blasted for such a deed.

Over here? Not so much. You can have a 4-4-whatever and you're good. Nice. I like a tolerant society. Hmmm, wonder how you guys would like a Cragslist - 4-door, 442 Cutlass? I've seen 'em!!

Their Ad should read:

4 - doors

4 - passengers (with attitude)

2 - radio *****

 

Part of the reason for that may be that the M3 has a large number of closely integrated performance parts that set it apart from the run of the mill 325, while the 4-4-2 is basically the same as any Cutlass, aside from the engine, transmission, rear end, a couple of sway bars, and some trim pieces.

I drive a 318ti, which at 130hp and 2,800 pounds is fun, but not crazy, but there are guys who shoehorn an M drivetrain into one, and wind up with a helluva car, but it is NOT as easy for them to do it as it is with an American car.

- Eric

 

To be fair, the things listed are just about all the things you COULD change on a Cutlass to make it better back then. I mean, what you have left is body (disregarding trim), frame and interior.

 

To clarify, Oldsmobile defined (via advertising) what the 442 numbers meant only in 1964 and 1965 . Never again after that, so any "definition" of 442 after 1965 was someone's unofficial whim and not anything that came from Oldsmobile.

 

Hey, Joe, you forgot the 1966 6-3-2 which had Tri Carbs, "Dearborn" HD 3-speed trans, and dual exhaust, lol.

 

Well there you have it. Performance branding like this could simply be an evil of Marketing. Look at what "SS" has become over the years. Yeah, you can find a new Impala SS. It has stiff shocks and a turbo-zooty, 6-banger. It has groovy chrome, plastic badges an SS liter bag and a trick glovebox plaque.

>> But it certainly isn't an SS!!

 

True to a degree, but in the case of the SS, the new Impala SS is fairly true to its roots. The original Super Sport option for years did *not* include *any* "performance" upgrades. It was a trim package only.

 

Joe, I was using the 1965 nomenclature, thus my 4-6-2 reference.

 

I always thought that if Olds was still in existence today, and the 442 was offered, I think it would be
4 - 400hp (easy with today's engine technology)
4 - 4 valves/cylinder (easier to get the 400 hp from smaller displacement)
2 - dual exhaust ('nuff said)

...just a thought.

Speaking of old ads, this one from 1966 with John "Shorty" Powers is a kick:

 

I'd love one, no one mentioned that in 64, Olds made a handfull of 4 door 442s,7, I think, since it was originally a police pursuit option, thus the ad that 69HO43 posted.

 

I guess a better question for the OP is how to decode a '67 to confirm it is a 4-4-2. Any '67 experts want to opine?

 

^^ To be clear, I wasn't interested in buying the 442 I spotted, just wondered if it was mis-represented?

I spot many clone or tribute 442 cars that look correct. I mean, it must take a sharp eye or forensic VIN decoder to verify. Thing is, they want crazy money for 'em anyway!!

I'll keep my mine and at night, if you squint, it sorta looks like a ... G-T-O. (kidding)

 

In '67 for starters - the "442 Performance Package" was available on the Cutlass Supreme only.
VIN#s start with: 338077 (Sports Coupe), 338177 (Holiday Coupe), 338677 (Convertible)

Also, in '67 most (not all) GM plants across the board put a good amount of additional information, besides paint & interior codes on their "BODY BY FISHER" tags. The majority of 1967 442s can be ID'd by a "5V" on this tag.