Olds luvr

hello guys, So a car that I am really considering buying happens to be a 442 clone. It is a numbers matching Cutlass Supreme convertible equiped like mine was prior to getting totaled 350/350 with the exception of the OAI hood grills and 442 badges in the grills and fenders and the famous white side stripes. the car is really clean but sort of torn as to buying a clone. it is a 72 with new paint and interior and top. I really like the car and thinking of replacing the 442 badges with cutlass badges and adding the correct oai air cleaner. I am just looking for opinions on buying a clone or should I say a 72 Cutlass convertible with 442 appearence... the hood and stripes look good I guess it is just the badges that I do not like. Are the holes for the emblems in the grill and fenders different for 442 badges vs cutlass badges?

Thanks

Eightupman

If you are in the market for a clone, and its priced as a clone, 1972 is absolutely the year to buy one.

In 1972 there was no way of tracking if it was a 455 equipped Cutlass or a 442. IIRC, a handfull of 442's were ordered with the 350/350 combo in 1972. Since everything bolts in otherwise...except the paint codes of course.

Your question about the placement of the 442 emblems in the grill: The 442 grills are different. They are also available to buy aftermarket. If you happen to want to change over to the 442 grilles, I know you could sell the supreme ones to me

I can't tell you about the fender badges though

John

joe_padavano

Actually, in 1972, MOST of the 442s came with the 350 motor. Since the 442 package was demoted to an "appearance and handling" option available with any Cutlass engine that year, the vast majority came with 350s.

stevengerard

the 442 emblems do have different holes from what I remember, I'll try to check my assembly manual when I can. My neighbor has a 70 "442 clone" and it is a great car. They look great, cost less to get into and I feel it is a bit more dependable with a 350 than a 455 and better mpg as well. My next car will most likely be a beater 70 hardtop that I can fix up myself and make it into what I want it to be instead of worrying about "matching numbers"

70 cutlass s

If you like it and it's a good price than buy it. If you don't like or too much money don't buy it. It's pretty common to hind 72 442 with 350 engine.

cutlassjoe

I have a 72' Cutlass S that I cloned to a 442. The price was right, and it's what I wanted. Now, with being said, when I go to a car show and fill out the registration form and window card I always list it as a 442 clone. I do get flack from some people, and it used to **** me off, but I don't listen to them anymore. Do what you like to do. Like 70 Cutlass S said. Just drive it and enjoy it!

Olds luvr

I agree with everyones comments. I do like the car and I just want to take off the 442 badges and replace them with the cutlass ones even though without the build sheet and it being a 72 there is no way to tell but I am going on the assumption it is a clone and is priced as a clone.

Eightupman: The grills are 442 grills and I do want to keep the 442 grill just change the emblums over to the Cutlass script

Any confirmation as to the holes in the fenders for the badges would be great as I need to confirm that the holes for the 442 badge is different than the Cutlass badge for the fender

mugzilla

Since there are so many phonies out there that regular cutlass' or non w-442s'

are getting rarer and rarer ...

Plus I would like to customize my car more but since it's a real unmolested 442 I feel like I should keep everything stock and original ...

Olds luvr

Also guys, Here is my biggest issue and it is not the car. I am flying out to Indianapolis and FedEx Auto Transport may not be able to pick the car up from him for up to 10 days. That is a long time to leave a car you just bought in someone elses possesion

Any ideas guys? Anybody in Indianapolis?

colby

People buy fake bbs for their wives all the time. Are they now considered clones if they get the Dolly Pardon model and if so are they less attractive? Clone cars don't bother me because most of the time they are an improvement.They still catch my eyes, both I mean.

mugzilla

Have it parked at a storage facility ...

Lady72nRob71

They are very different in both the fenders and the grill.
The fenders will need to come off so the speed nuts can be removed and new ones installed. Most of the old 442 holes will need to be filled and painted. IF the fenders were original Cutlass fenders, then the Cutlass holes will be there under filler and paint.
Lot of work for just emblems, but if further work is to be done anyway, it will be fairly straightforward (if there is a such thing...)

Nothing is wrong with a clone, as long as you do not portray it as 'real'. Of course in 72, you can actually call it an "added option", just like you would an added cruise control...

70Post

If you buy it you might as well leave the emblems in place since the mounting holes aren't in the same spot. You are opening a can of worms if you think you can just fill and spot paint the 442 emblem holes.

On the other hand...you don't have to remove the fenders to get to the back of the emblems. Loosen the bottom two bolts and the wheelwell perimeter and you can get your hand/arm back there. I've changed out some emblems this way on a '72 Cutlass front fender...fender stayed in place.

Olds luvr

Well ten maybe the badges will stay as the car has new paint and that is one of the main reasons to fly out. I did find out that with the car in indy I can drive it 4 hours to STL to the fedex auto tranport hub and have it shipped from there. I will keep everyone updated and hope to have the new car this weekend although it may take up to 3 weeks to have it delivered and that sucks

stevengerard

or worse you can be having it delivered to Chicago only to have it sit for another 5 months waiting for good weather again

Lady72nRob71

If it is in good shape, have it all checked out by a good mechanic there and just drive it home!
Live the adventure... I never thought I would have done that, but I did and loved it.
Of course, bad weather is setting in now...........

damascus

i'm with you. i JUST bought a '71 Cutlass '442' clone. like you, i was attracted to the car because it is such a nice car... and i had zero interest in a clone car. but in the end, i could not pass on it. i thought about removing the emblems too... but the builder installed them like the factory instead of just using 2 sided tape... the emblems are staying on the car.

70Post

I did the same thing but it was a relatively short drive. Bought a '70 W31 4 spd down in Houston, took it to a relative's house and left it there. Went back, did some light work to it and drove it home. That was one of the funnest drives I ever made in a car....the 4 spd helped with the fun factor of course! Even though the thing had a worn out interior, faded paint, etc it was still a great, great time. I was looking for detours the closer I got to home.

Run to Rund

This "clone" stuff came about with fake cars whose VINs didn't match; the VIN wasn't consistent with a Hemi engine, or a COPO Camaro, etc. That would also be the case for 1968-71 442s vs. regular Cutlasses. Other years like 64-67 and 72 Cutlasses had the 442 option, and from GMs perspective it was just that. An option, just like wheel covers, radio, power steering could be added by the dealer or owner. Who would ever think to call their car a clone because they put in a radio option?

Olds luvr

Well guys thank you again, If it all works out I buy the car and drive it 4 hours to Fedex auto hub. I would love to drive it home but that is like 2300 miles and not that brave with a car like this. Will keep an update going as I will see the car in person this Sunday morning!!

1964f-85

I would pull a fender and look at the badge holes, if the cutlass holes were welded up and the 442 badge holes were added then its a clone, if there are no other holes than the 442's you probably have a real 442

GoodOldsGuyDougie

I'd leave the badges on the Car. Who cares what anybody thinks. If the 442 Parts are in the right place and there the correct part for that year that's all that matters. I'm turning the Car in my Picture into a 1969 Hurst Olds. When I'm done it will be better than the 69 Hurst olds that came out. There always some Jack *** at a show who thinks he knows more than anybody. Usually when I ask where is his car it's never there. Point being these are all Oldsmobiles Cutlass bodys. Call them whatever 442-W-30-W-31-Hurst-Olds-Rallye 350-etc-etc. The clowns at Barret Jackson Auctions can all GTH with there opinions on clones and copys. Just my 2 cents worth. Go Oldsmobile Go......

317Cutty

Any update pics of the car???

Destroyer67

My '67 will be getting 442 badges and grille. I like the look better and that is my reasoning. If it gets someone upset, well, I put a Chevy motor in it...........do you think I care?

rocketraider

You should. People who don't know any different will think that's the way it came, or worse that's the way it's supposed to be.

As long as a 'clone' is represented as such and not as the legitimate article, I have no problems with them. You try to pass it off as gennie, with intention of making a pile of money off someone who hasn't done their homework, that's when it becomes fraud. I have a big problem with that.

Destroyer67

I have a problem with that too but that isn't what we are talking about. If someone asks me if '67 442's were as fast as my Cutlass is I will respond "NO". If anyone ever asks me if my car is a real 442, I will respond "NO, they weren't nearly as quick" , lmao. You know what though? I doubt anyone will ever ask. They will see, hear and feel my car and nobody will ever know about the Chevy motor that lurks beneath. I'll tell them it's a 330 with an exhaust!

Bluevista

Who knows what evil lurks beneath that hood??.....
The Shadow do!

Any car guy with functional ears that can't tell the difference between the sound of a an Olds V8 and any old or new Chebby V8 engine should be ashamed of themselves.

dmcianfa

I'm not sure what the big deal is about buying a clone. To the "aficianados" out there it can be a deal breaker, but I say if you like it and it tickles your pickle, buy it. Of course, I agree that one shouldn't false represent a car upon selling it and state it is a "real" version if it's a clone. Sadly, this happens a lot. But, a fool and his money will always part and if you don't do your homework to verify it's the real deal, then there is partial blame there as well. In any case, I plan on cloning my '64 into a 442. Why? Because if I put my muncie 4 speed in it and beef up the suspension as olds did for the HD, then why not put the badges on it and call it a 442 since it will have all the components anyway. It was simply an option back then not a model. Yes, it won't be a true 442, but in my mind it will be and whomever wants to pick it apart and say it's less of a car because, can quite frankly GTH. Besides, I want to customize it somewhat and slap the motor that olds got right in '65 (400cid) in it so it screams a bit more. So, it would be somewhat custom to start out with anyway. Will I advertise it as a true 442 at shows or if I ever sell it? NO, but life's too short and in the end does it really matter? You'll find the same arguments with the Tempest/GTO forums. Honestly, I'm not sure why all of them can't just look at a car with an open mind, but hey, to each his own and there will always be that A#$hole who picks your car apart, regardless if its a #5 VW bug or an #1 Aston Martin DB5 real deal.

ziff396

I just gon't get why alot of people, it seems, has to put improper badges on any car of any brand. What is wrong with just a Cutlass, Chevelle, F-85, Barracuda,(Not Cuda), Mustang fastback, Lemans, Etc.? Mine drives better, and goes faster anyway's.

Destroyer67

You and I could tell but most won't. Modified Oldsmobile v8's make some of the best sounds I've ever heard from an engine. They definitely make a unique sound but alas, few have ever heard it. Eventually my car will get a proper Oldsmobile motor (or something more modern like an LS7) but not now, not yet.

Destroyer67

Simply because a Cutlass is the plain jane version of the 442. The 442 was the best Cutlass and top performing Oldsmobile. New, the 442 option was maybe a couple of hundred bucks more than a Cutlass. Used it is worth maybe 5-10 times more than a regular Cutlass which is 9/10ths the car and very easy to bring up to 442 spec from a performance stand point. I NEVER understood the collector market and why they have such a hard-on for a car like (for example) a Hemi Cuda when a regular Cuda could be modified to be better in every way than a stock Hemi Cuda. To bring it home a bit more why do we put cars like a '70 442 W30 on a pedestal when it was nothing more than a better performing Cutlass of the same year? I promise I could make a regular '70 Cutlass perform MUCH better than any stock 442 in every category imaginable yet it wouldn't be worth nearly as much. I saw a '67 442 convertible bring $67k on Mecum auctions. One would be lucky to get a sixth of that for a stock Cutlass 'vert in the same condition. It makes no sense.

firefrost gold

Why ? because if people didnt clone stuff and just kept what they had only a few 70 w-30 converts would be ou here to see . I like my 69 h/o for so many reasons some of it stems from mag articles the long hunt for the right car. knowing some wana be cant talk out there pie hole on it authenticity. Now i had a 65 gto clone was very good clone job but still a clone I now have a 66 lemans
i like it better than my clone . No string . would i like a 66 gto hell ya but for 18000 more im fine with my lemans. copying is the greatest form of flattery . its like why put 22 on a suv or
loud pipes on a car or truck or them oil leaking Harley's they (we) want what others do or dont have JMO thanks

Destroyer67

Heh, who cares what some wannabe thinks or talks? I'm building my '67 the way I want it. Any future owners can do what they will with it but this is my time and it is currently my car and there are no rules to abhor to. Don't like the Chevy motor? Tell it to my rear bumper as it pulls way ahead of you. Don't like the shade of Ford gray paint? Oh well! Wanna buy it from me and make it right? Better be one sweet offer! I don't care about originality one damn bit. I would have like to do a small block Olds build on this car honestly but as a business man it didn't make sense.

Mochi

I'll chime in here because I'm "cloneing" my 71 CS. I bought her as a project and a classic that I can pass along to my oldest daughter. Shes going to grow up seeing me love this car and when I give it to her she will know that that's all that matters. I bought it to make mine, It will have one 442 badge on the grille and when asked at car shows she'll be a clone. When asked on the street, shes my 442. When/IF my daughter goes to sell it in 30 years, I doubt it will even matter.

Dave Siltman

Here's a good one--I'm upgrading my '72 Cutlass S, yes UPGRADING a whole lot of stuff, but leaving the CUTLASS S emblems alone!. I have a real rare '69 W31 and have had many, many REAL cars and this one is real, too. A REAL CUTLASS S. It's what I want and what I want to do. I'm not a BSer or liar and I like the car. In '72 the 442 option was something like $29.00 that really was a deal considering the items, if purchased separately added up to around $45.00---all it was was sway bars, shocks, stripes and some emblems. It's kinda surprising that there are not more '72 442s that regular Cutlasses. When you think about it, it was wiser to order a 442 than NOT to. Anyway, if you like the car and the car is a good one, not a made-over P.O.S. why not? As for leaving it parked for awhile before you take it, if the seller is an Olds guy you should be O.K. If he trustworthy enough to do business with, he should not have a problem helping you.

ziff396

X2. I upgraded mine my way, but it still has Cutlass emblems. That is what it is. Of course, to each his own.

Aceshigh

Exactly my point of view as well. See avatar.
Mine's a clone / tribute......and when I tell people that, the response is still the same.

Exactly why I bought my 1970 442 clone. To me, it's just an appearance package.
By the time I'm done, this car will perform and handle better then any factory 1970 442 did.
Looks cooler with the OAI hood, spoiler, and my hockey stick stripes that don't even belong on it.
SS III rims had to go though.......couldn't go with bigger brakes with them.

99.9% of the people out there don't know the difference.
They still give you the thumbs up for keeping a cool classic on the road.
Don't mind the peckerwoods who judge every detail of YOUR car.

I didn't want to have to sweat the numbers matching game. It's not a W-30 convertible, so no worries.

I wanted a car to beat on and enjoy and modify to my tastes.
I upgraded to Baer track rear disc brakes, new 12 bolt Eaton posi rear end, suspension, and I'm putting in a
6 speed to enjoy it even more on the road when gas prices hit $4 again in 2011. You know it's coming........

Just my .02

Destroyer67

That's right man. Make it into what YOU want, not what some **** retentive moron thinks it should be. Forget "matching numbers", who cares anyway? Good luck!

Aceshigh

I think I'm going to steal that for my signature if you don't mind.

Destroyer67

Be my guest.