mdh157

Hello,

Does anyone know if there is a breakdown available on how many supreme ragtops were made in '72 with a manual tranny, both 3 and 4 speeds? So far all i've been able to find is the total production but i've seen several people with different cars claiming that heir engine/trans combo is 1 of 200, 1 of 712, etc.

Oldsguy

The reference I use does not break it down either but there may be some information out there on that although I doubt it.

oldzy

My '72 Supreme is 1 of 1 ... buckets with column shift, and 14/14 paint, but with dealer installed vinyl top. I have never seen another one like it, at least not around here.

vette442

I've been trying to find exact '72 4 speed numbers for years - the 350 cars are the least documented. In 1971, out of all 4400-series Supreme hardtops and ragtops the numbers were 166 M14 3 speeds and 394 M20 4 speeds (thru June 1971 production).

1972 total Supreme production was about 50,000 units higher, so I'd make an educated guess that the ragtop number is between 300 and 500. In comparison, there were 66 L75 455/M20 ragtops built in 1972. Not a lot!

Terry

joe_padavano

Terry,

How did you let that 1970 get into your garage?

vette442

Pure necessity, since there was no '72 SX. ; )

Terry

Jesse

Hey guys I am confused (again)

1st how can a 350 be a 442 ? I always thought the 442 was the big block !

I have a 1972 convertible matching # 350 / M20 4 speed . Does anyone really know how many were produced ? I know this seems to be a question that I see man different answers to , but does anyone really know or is there no real way of knowing.

vette442

There is no way of knowing exactly how many 1972 350/M20 ragtops were made at this point - those production numbers do not exist, or if they do, they have not re-surfaced yet. See my post above with good guesstimates and how I arrived at them based on what we DO know.

Not all 442s were 400/455 cars. The 1964 442s had the 330 engine, and in 1972, you could have four different 350s - H, J, K and M VINs (2 barrel and 4 barrel with single or dual exhaust). As far as big blocks, '68s and '69s all had 400s, and '70-'71s all had 455s.

And thanks for the PM with info about your car by the way.

Terry

joe_padavano

Unfortunately, starting with the 1972 model year, the 442 package was demoted to a "handling and appearance" option package available with any engine in the Cutlass line, including the 350 2bbl single exhaust motor- the 3.5-2-1.

Jesse

OK yes I can see now where I am confused.

So what designates in either vin # or cowl tag # a 350 as a 4-4-2 in just the appearance package.

vette442

The 1972 VIN includes two letters - the first is the engine code, then a 2 for 1972, then the letter for the production plant.

Engines:
H - 350/2v/single exhaust 160 net hp
J - 250/2v/dual exhaust
K - 350/4v/single exhaust 180 net hp
M - 350/4v/dual exhaust - 200 net hp
U - L75 455/4v/TH400 - 250 net hp
V - L75 455/4v/M20 - 270 net hp
X - L77 455/4v - either trans - W30 300 net hp

Plants - M - Lansing; Z - Fremont, CA; G - Framingham,MA; R - Arlington, TX.

To answer your main question, there is nothing in the VIN or on the cowl tag that will tell you if the car is a W-29. The only way to know for sure is via an original build sheet, broadcast card or window sticker with a W-29 on it. Sure, there are clues like having the boxed lower rear arms/sway bar, etc., original holes for the 442 emblems versus having holes from Cutlass emblems, side stainless and 'Oldsmobile' trunklid lettering that are closed shut, etc. Things like W-30 stripes, a 442 emblem on the glovebox door, rear decklid spoiler, etc. usually raise red flags for potential clones in my mind. Cloners usually go too far in their enthusiasm. ; )

Terry

Jesse

Thanks Terry,

So basically anyone who is buying a 1972 ( 442) without documentation beware !

joe_padavano

Correct. 1972 442s are among the easiest to fake... er, clone... er, tribute...