jimmyp618

Car has sat for well over 25 yrs in a barn , Funny thing is it started right up with just priming it , My question is , Is it possible for the ujoints to go bad from it sitting? It has a nasty 20-30 mph vibration. Could be the tires aswell i guess. Weather is crappy here and was just trying to get some insite on what to look at first . Thanks. Jimmy

tru-blue 442

If the tires have been sitting for as long,
my guess would be they have flat spots.
With the the car running,foot on the brake,
window down, go from drive to reverse
and back again. If you hear loud clunks,
you could have a bad u-joint. I would
check the rear end for grease at the least.

jimmyp618

Yea I cheacked for clunk yesterday and it was fine , I didnt know if maybe a cap couls sieze up from not rotating and cause a vib. Im thinking the tires aswell with them sitting that long. Bad thing is they were damn near new when parked. . Will also check diff lube aswell ty for the Info.

oldcutlass

It could be a number of things, tires, brake dragging, wheel bearing, etc... I would do a complete safety inspection and replace tires. You can drop the rear driveshaft and pop the 2 exposed caps for a quick ujoint inpection just to be on the safeside of things.

jackedolds

Oldcutlass is correct - it could be a mutitude of things. To answer your question directly, yes a u joint can cause a vibration and it doesn't need to clunk when going from reverse to drive to do so. If moisture got into the cap/needles and it didn't have grease in it than it could rust inside and that can cause a vibration.

That said, odds are much more likely that the vibration is from the tires sitting in one spot for a long time. Regardless of the vibration, when a car comes out of extended storage it should always be inspected as many things can deteriorate during storage.

droldsmorland

X2 with everyone!
You need to do a complete service on this car. Chassis inspection as well as All fluids including flushing the coolant, drop the radiator hoses and really flush the block rad and heater core thoroughly, change the T-stat etc..., fluid flush & filter on the trans don’t simply drop the pan and change the filter, power bleed the brakes at each bleeder, Replace all 3 rubber flex brake lines, 2 in front one over rear axle, this is a must for safety. Flush power steering fluid, rear diff grease etc....Don’t forget to clean and re-pack the front wheel bearings too.
Get under the car and grab hold of the drive shaft and move it up, down, side to side at both ends. You will feel the play in the joints if they're bad, though even that’s not conclusive. The next step in trouble shooting u-joints is pull the shaft and handle the u-joints. Feel if they are smooth. If not its cheap insurance to replace. Go with Spicer’s stay away from off-shore trash. If it’s a two piece shaft (tube inside a tube) check to insure the yokes are not out-of-phase. (Look down the shaft, the u-joint caps should be clocked parallel to each other). If not get a new one-piece shaft made. Same goes for wheel bearings and seals USA high quality parts only. Yes, I actually found USA made bearings and seals through the local BDI bearing house. When I asked they said "yes we have USA bearings too but we need to order them and they are more". I asked "how much more?" They said "about $2 per bearing".....no brainer... really! Not putting India or China bearings on a 68 USA made American made muscle car...!
Also I would definitely get new tires. $500 is cheap safety vs. your life and totaling it from a rotted blown-out tire

jimmyp618

Thanks All. Ill get started on this list this weekend .

Yellowstatue

The latest item published in Old Autos, states that tires that are more than five years old are suspect and should be replaced...a new spec comming soon will be an expiry date on all new tires...I don't know when... I had BFG's on wife's 442 that were about fifteen years old. Finally put new ones on... It takes that long to burn the tread off...

Miles71

Hi all:
I also have a strange vibration at high way speeds. When cruising at 60 mph, the whole car vibrates. If I hold a constant speed, you can feel the vibration pattern repeats at regular intervals. The car does track straight.
I tired shifting into Neutral while cruising, and found the vibration is not Engine related.


Since I have only had the care a few months, I am only part way through "droldsmorland's" suggestions list.

My to do list:
High speed balance all tires.
New USA bearings.
Drive shaft inspection and U-joints, etc.
Power steering fluid.
Front Break hoses still look brand new; I will re-check the Rear soon.
(Stock 71 Supreme 350/350, 4bl, miles 20k)


The tires could be part of the problem. The tires are 2-3 years old and only have 2-3k on the tires. I have put over 500 miles on the tires in 2 months. I assume that most of the flat spots should be gone by now. (guessing BF Goodrich, R15-100 Front, R15-110 Rear, Spare R14-095 surprise).

RetroRanger

I changed my u joints this summer on my 72. all were original (nylon retainers) and 7 out of 8 spiders and cups were OK.

One was grumbly and kinda sticky the pics show the problem area

droldsmorland

Miles71,
First check for brake drag front & rear, front wheel bearing end-play and all 4 wheels for lug-nut torque as this is all easy-n-cheap.
Next have the tires dynamically balanced. If something’s bent or off it will be found there. Lastly, inspect the drive-shaft/U joints or outer rear axle bearings.

If it’s got the sealed “O” style rear axle bearings I’ve seen those do what you describe though with a grumble.
If the problem still persists it could be deeper too like pinion or carrier bearings though a shot pinion sound is unique and may not vibe until totally shot.
Pull the dif cover see how much metal is in there? Some gray goop is fairly normal but not a lot. And no chunks should be found. If you do all this and it’s still vibrating a carrier bearing can fool you until you actually pull it and inspect.
Turn the rear end at the pinion yoke with the drive shaft, tires & drums are off. You can sometimes feel it then.
Do you feel it in the seat of your pants or through the steering wheel or???
Generally an oscillating resonance frequency vibe at speed is a shaft, axle and/or drive shaft.

Miles71

Droldsmorland:
Thanks for the tips. I asked Santa for a floor jack and stands, but Santa said, "I do not want you crawling underneath a car on jacks". So a local shop with a good reputation has been doing most of my underbody inspections and work.

All 4 drums were inspected and did not show any bad signs. I am still running the original Drums and Shoes from 1971 (only 20k miles). No brakes leaks or visible hose damage. The brake lines were not flushed at the last visit, but will be flushed early next year during the carburetor rebuild.
I had the Diff cover pulled off and cleaned, there were no obvious issues. X-mission, flushed, filter and gasket.
The oscillation vibration can be felt and heard once you know what to look for at speeds above 40 mph. It's not a steering wheel vibration, it’s the whole car.

I think when I do the Carburetor rebuild visit; I'll just have "all" of the U-joints replaced, and the tires balanced.
Depending on how $$$$, I may hold off on the front bearings for a few months. Snow and Salt will be falling soon; I will have to put her to sleep for a few months.


Merry Christmas to all and to all a Good Olds Season in 2012

Seff

I find it highly impressive that these cars just start up like that.

jackedolds

I agree with droldsmorland, "Generally an oscillating resonance frequency vibe at speed is a shaft, axle and/or drive shaft."

In my experience, MOST (note - not ALL) of the time a driveline vibration does not change much with forward or reverse loading (acceleration versus deceleration) but a rear diff noise does (unless it is an axle bearing which I wouldn't consider a rear diff noise but a rear axle noise). As you are driving and the vibration is present (which you likely also hear as a repetitive droning noise) lightly accelerate and decelerate. If the noise change is significant head for the rear diff guts (bearings, gear surfaces, gear alignment). If there is little noise change head for the driveline or axle bearings. Typically an axle bearing will also change noise when changing lanes, assuming a constant drive speed (i.e. drive it so that it consistently makes the noise and then change lanes left and then right). If the noise/vibration changes with the change in load head for wheel/axle bearings. This is usually more prominent and effective on front wheel bearings but also applies to rear axle/wheel bearings.

Miles71

I replace the following items to reduce the vibration issues:


New Universals. One of the (41 year-old) caps was rusty and no grease. The rest of the caps all had plenty of grease. The new universals have a grease pin to refill them with grease.
Replaced Front wheel bearings, the old ones looked ok.
Rebalanced by SSIII rims. The first shop gave up. The second shop refused to look at the published instructions I gave them. Each rim now has over 2 ounces of lead.

Overall, there is less vibration now than before.
I still have a 1 second oscillation pattern that repeats at 60 mph. You have to now listen for the squeak on the driver's door at 1 second intervals.
It's good enough for now. It's possible the tires are some of the problem. These tires are 2-4 years old had have been driven only 200-500 miles per year. It's possible the flat spots have not worked out yet. Since the tires have 90% of their tread, I am not in any hurry to replace them.


Thank for all of your suggestions.

oldcutlass

Glad to hear your moving in the right direction!