Shocks & springs question
#1
Shocks & springs question
Sorry for the new thread but I'm hoping to get this job done this week so we can hit the road next week (Niagara Falls!). This is for my '71 CS 2 door coup, 350, AC.
Okay, the main points:
1. Current rear springs measured 9.5" installed. But....
2. Current rear shocks have coil-over shocks, looks like a kit that was added to the shocks.
3. I disconnected the shocks and oh yeah, the springs are shot. Went from 9.5" installed to 7.0 (maybe a little less). Looks like I'm pulling a wheelie!
4. I found the springs I want, Moog 5399 (pigtail x2, good ID, 9.0" install height, 850 load, 166 spring rate, 14.12 free height)
5. HOWEVER; I already bought four KYB gas-a-just shocks for the stock setup, which should be 7.5" install height springs. A good 1.5" shorter (or more, considering the lower spring rate and load rate)
So the question is: do I need to return the shocks, get the new springs in and measure before reordering? Or will that inch and a half not be a big deal?
Okay, the main points:
1. Current rear springs measured 9.5" installed. But....
2. Current rear shocks have coil-over shocks, looks like a kit that was added to the shocks.
3. I disconnected the shocks and oh yeah, the springs are shot. Went from 9.5" installed to 7.0 (maybe a little less). Looks like I'm pulling a wheelie!
4. I found the springs I want, Moog 5399 (pigtail x2, good ID, 9.0" install height, 850 load, 166 spring rate, 14.12 free height)
5. HOWEVER; I already bought four KYB gas-a-just shocks for the stock setup, which should be 7.5" install height springs. A good 1.5" shorter (or more, considering the lower spring rate and load rate)
So the question is: do I need to return the shocks, get the new springs in and measure before reordering? Or will that inch and a half not be a big deal?
#3
Okay, so I just spoke with KYB and the gas-a-just shocks have a 4.5" travel. Subtract 1.5" and that leaves 3", which according to the tech, isn't enough. And it doesn't sound like much to me. So back to the proverbial drawing board.
Anyone have suggestions for shocks on a lifted car?
Anyone have suggestions for shocks on a lifted car?
#5
Shocks that are spec'd to the stock measurements of the car should work fine, since what you are doing is returning it to it original specified height.
You can measure the height as described in the CSM in the Frame section, under the title "Carrying Height."
I have no idea how high the springs themselves are supposed to be.
Personally, I would recommend Bilstein shocks if you're going to be doing any real driving - they cost 2-3x as much, but, in ly opinion, at least, they are 2-3x better.
You won't be disappointed.
- Eric
You can measure the height as described in the CSM in the Frame section, under the title "Carrying Height."
I have no idea how high the springs themselves are supposed to be.
Personally, I would recommend Bilstein shocks if you're going to be doing any real driving - they cost 2-3x as much, but, in ly opinion, at least, they are 2-3x better.
You won't be disappointed.
- Eric
#6
Well, I relocated the spring on the driver's side rear and low and behold, they measure 7.5" with the shocks unhooked. A half inch higher than when it was dislocated. Makes no sense but there it is.
Eric, If my research is correct (a big IF), the stock spring installed height is 7.5". I cross referenced a tag I found on one of the springs that had the number NN 9777794 and came up with Moog 5401, which has an installed height of 7.5". I'm going with a spring with 9.0" installed height. A half inch lower than where the springs were with the coil-over shocks. I like the look
I'm going to try these gas-a-just shocks with the 9" springs and see what happens. What's my worst case scenario here? Damage the shocks? Or worse, the shock mounts?
Eric, If my research is correct (a big IF), the stock spring installed height is 7.5". I cross referenced a tag I found on one of the springs that had the number NN 9777794 and came up with Moog 5401, which has an installed height of 7.5". I'm going with a spring with 9.0" installed height. A half inch lower than where the springs were with the coil-over shocks. I like the look
I'm going to try these gas-a-just shocks with the 9" springs and see what happens. What's my worst case scenario here? Damage the shocks? Or worse, the shock mounts?
#7
Mac,
The build I have now I invested in some Heavy Duty Bilsteins and a set of Moog springs. The ride height is perfect and it feels solid.
There is a website where they sell Bilsteins for a reasonable price. I'll have to find my invoice and post it here.
The build I have now I invested in some Heavy Duty Bilsteins and a set of Moog springs. The ride height is perfect and it feels solid.
There is a website where they sell Bilsteins for a reasonable price. I'll have to find my invoice and post it here.
#9
#10
Well I ordered the springs and I have the shocks ready to go. I'll report back with the results.
Any problem raising the car from the side, installing one spring at a time? It seems to work better that way. And new insulators top AND bottom, correct?
Any problem raising the car from the side, installing one spring at a time? It seems to work better that way. And new insulators top AND bottom, correct?
#12
I just set the frame just in front of the rear wheels on Jack stands. Jack the rear end in the center, disconnect the shocks and lower the rear until I can pull the springs. Then install the new ones, install the shocks, jack the rear up until I can pull the stands, lower the car, and I'm done.
#13
Will do Eric. Do the wheels have to come off? My unilugs are a pain.
Biggus, I don't have a rear sway bar so no issues there.
Now, to further confuse the issue; I looked up stock replacement springs from three different places and got three different springs.
Rockauto - Moog 6321
Summit - Moog 5379
Jegs - Moog 5379 and Moog 5413
All these have an install height of 8.5 inches. And yet, the tag that came off the original spring cross referenced as Moog 5401 with an install height of 7.5 inches.
Very confusing. I'm fairly confident that I made the right decision though.
Biggus, I don't have a rear sway bar so no issues there.
Now, to further confuse the issue; I looked up stock replacement springs from three different places and got three different springs.
Rockauto - Moog 6321
Summit - Moog 5379
Jegs - Moog 5379 and Moog 5413
All these have an install height of 8.5 inches. And yet, the tag that came off the original spring cross referenced as Moog 5401 with an install height of 7.5 inches.
Very confusing. I'm fairly confident that I made the right decision though.
#15
As mentioned, side to side will work against you. If you can get under the car while on the ground easily, just unhook the shocks. Jack up the car till the wheels clear a couple of inches, (put on jack stands) pop out the springs, put the new ones in. Undo the top shock bolts & nuts, remove the old shocks, bolt the new ones in at the top, lower the car back down and bolt them up at the bottom. Pretty easy job if the top shock bolts are not frozen........
#17
Oh yeah, clocked right. That's the one thing I'll probably forget. I'll stick a post-it on the gas tank or something. I bought new insulators, the old ones look pretty bad.
Randy, I'll make it so
Oh, and I've been soaking all the bolts (front and rear) with PB Blaster for a few days now. Hopefully they won't be too bad. The lower rear nuts came right off. A good sign, maybe?
Can I expect the same sag with the front springs? No coil-overs up there, at least.
Randy, I'll make it so
Oh, and I've been soaking all the bolts (front and rear) with PB Blaster for a few days now. Hopefully they won't be too bad. The lower rear nuts came right off. A good sign, maybe?
Can I expect the same sag with the front springs? No coil-overs up there, at least.
Last edited by Macadoo; July 27th, 2015 at 08:49 PM.
#18
Oh yeah, clocked right. That's the one thing I'll probably forget. I'll stick a post-it on the gas tank or something. I bought new insulators, the old ones look pretty bad.
Randy, I'll make it so
Oh, and I've been soaking all the bolts (front and rear) with PB Blaster for a few days now. Hopefully they won't be too bad. The lower rear nuts came right off. A good sign, maybe?
Can I expect the same sag with the front springs? No coil-overs up there, at least.
Randy, I'll make it so
Oh, and I've been soaking all the bolts (front and rear) with PB Blaster for a few days now. Hopefully they won't be too bad. The lower rear nuts came right off. A good sign, maybe?
Can I expect the same sag with the front springs? No coil-overs up there, at least.
#20
HaHa, no, you don't need to worry about that. The only real help for sagging front springs is spring spacers, which are either metal or rubber spacers inserted between the coils to reduce the space between them.
#21
I got the front shocks swapped this morning. After reading all the horror stories of having to break, saw, torch the stems off, I'm almost sorry to report that the nuts came right off. On one side, I didn't even have to hold the stem! Bottom nuts were just as easy.
No loss in height. Thanks for the info, Randy. I'm glad to report there are no spacers in the springs.
Now I'm just waiting for my new springs to be delivered so I can do the rear. I hope they're just as easy.
Question: the old shocks should rebound after being compressed, yes? These do not.
No loss in height. Thanks for the info, Randy. I'm glad to report there are no spacers in the springs.
Now I'm just waiting for my new springs to be delivered so I can do the rear. I hope they're just as easy.
Question: the old shocks should rebound after being compressed, yes? These do not.
#22
I may be mistaken, but I believe only "gas filled" shocks expand by default, while the "old style" shocks just sit there in whatever position you leave them in... Or at least that's what I remember.
- Eric
- Eric
#23
#26
#29
Alright, new springs and shocks installed on the rear. These Moog 5399 springs are supposed to have a 9" install height but right now they have a 10.5" install height. I hope that settles down a little...but not too much. I kind of like it. Plus the gas-a-just shocks raised the front an inch, maybe a little less, so it looks pretty darn good.
I had to get a little creative to get the new springs in by myself. A little weight, a little leverage. This is the weight box I used to test my torque wrench.
[IMG][/IMG]
As far as performance; the gas-a-just shocks definitely helped with the body roll but they're not too stiff. She rides about the same as before, nice and soft.
All in all, well worth the effort.
I had to get a little creative to get the new springs in by myself. A little weight, a little leverage. This is the weight box I used to test my torque wrench.
[IMG][/IMG]
As far as performance; the gas-a-just shocks definitely helped with the body roll but they're not too stiff. She rides about the same as before, nice and soft.
All in all, well worth the effort.
#32
Any chance we can get side shots of the stance? I checked out the Moog spring chart and could make no sense of it. When I asked on-line "expert" he told me they don't make springs for my 1969 442. I'll have to start my own thread looking for which springs produce the right stance using a given tire size.
#33
The Moog chart isn't confusing at all. I just printed it out, closed my eyes, and poked it with my pen. That's how it felt anyway. I'll get some pics but I hate straight side pics of my car. They always look weird.
Anyway, I decided a few things on the chart were important to me:
1. The I.D. - I wanted that as close as possible (but there was a little wiggle room)
2. Load - I didn't want the new springs to be less
3. Spring rate - same as # 2
4. The ends - I believe are VERY important. Both pigtails on mine.
5. Free height - to a lesser extent but some of them were around 18 inches tall! I would not have gotten them to fit in there.
The most difficult part for me was figuring out which springs I had on the car. Even though they were original, it was still hard being sure. And in the end, I never was sure.
Pics to come....
Anyway, I decided a few things on the chart were important to me:
1. The I.D. - I wanted that as close as possible (but there was a little wiggle room)
2. Load - I didn't want the new springs to be less
3. Spring rate - same as # 2
4. The ends - I believe are VERY important. Both pigtails on mine.
5. Free height - to a lesser extent but some of them were around 18 inches tall! I would not have gotten them to fit in there.
The most difficult part for me was figuring out which springs I had on the car. Even though they were original, it was still hard being sure. And in the end, I never was sure.
Pics to come....
#34
#38