dfire25

Interesting information Easy. Just so happens I finished (that's a relative term) my winter projects, so I started up the car today. After letting it warm up and fixing a trans cooling line leak, I drove it up and down the block a few times to test things out. My new gear box (Lares 1353) is COMPLETELY different then my stock gear box. It's A LOT firmer, tighter, and is 2.5 turns lock to lock. My old gear box was real loose and it felt like I could turn it with my pinky. Granted I still need to do an alignment because I replaced the front control arms with tubular ones, but it feels really nice. As of right now I'm very happy with the upgrade.

allyolds68

I'm curious about what the difference is between the stock 70 & later box and the JGC one. Does the JGC box "feel" better? I always thought all the GM steering boxes were the long ratio boxes but apparently I was mistaken. This guy (Carhex) is on Facebook and V8 Buick selling factory replacement 12.7.1 ratio 3 turns lock to lock boxes for $120 shipped if you have the same box to return as a core. If you have the wider ratio boxes it's $160. (He charges an $80 core charge and refunds $80 if it's the same box and $40 if it's not). It's a direct replacement box so there's no screwing around with adapters. Personally I need to replace the rag joint anyway so I'm not going to save anything there. I think a Lares JGC box is around $110 + shipping including the core charge at Rock Auto so there probably isn't a huge difference in price by the time you pay the return shipping for the Carhex core.




http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-287803.html?


http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-284639.html?


http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...x-steering-box

70cutty

So since 974 would be direct swap, why are people opting for 1353? I've RetroRanger's post about this and now I'm even more confused. Will 974 give me a tighter and firmer steering?

dfire25

Maybe because the 1353 box is $106 at Rockauto, and the 974 box is $212? That's why I went with the 1353. My total with rag joint and shipping was $132.

dfire25

Mike I seen the same post on Facebook, and had I noticed it sooner, I might have gone this route. But I'm very happy with the 1353 box at this point. I guess "feel" is very subjective, but to me my box feels a hundred times better then my stock one. I thought all steering boxes were the same too, but I always wondered why by buddies 69 Chevelle's steering was much firmer then mine.

70cutty

The price is the only difference between the 2? Sorry I am just trying to understand this, as I am about to order mine.

dfire25

I have no idea. I was going back and forth about which box to order as well, but being budget minded I just made a decision and went with it. I figured it was cheep enough, and if I didn't like it I'd just get the more expensive one later. Lares is very vague with the specs on thier website so that doesn't help. I guess you might have to call them. I just know mine worked out well for me.

lemoldsnut

I bought a Jeep GC box this week at a wrecking yard for $50 will put this on the 67 442 we are restoring now. Might do one on the convertible as well. Then I have the 70 so Might do a few of these.

RetroRanger

I have the 974 as noted above,

1353 box $57 + 2 couplers $30 + rag joint $20= ~$117

974 comes w coupler and uses stock hoses 162.79 on rock auto there is a$50 core i assume the same as the 1353, if you use the RA selection for return ship its like $8 to return the core.

i dont know the difference in the 1353 and 974

the 974 improved the steering feel dramtically has a pleasing on ctr feel and 90 degree turns require far less steering input i couldnt be happier. but my old rag joint was whipped, the old box had more play than donald trump and it leaked more oil than the exxon valdez.

you probably cant go wrong w either choice but i liked the no adapter option of the 974

dfire25

Yes the 1353 has a core charge. Like I said, I decided to keep my old box so it would have been $50 cheaper.

$107 for the box + $17 for the rag joint +$9 shipping = $133 - $50 core charge = $83 total

Man for $83 bucks you can't go wrong with this upgrade!

Oops, I almost failed to mention the adapters which were like $14

So for under $100 bucks you have a completely different feel.

rktolds

Has anyone pulled one from a yard? Any special tools besides ratchets and wrenches? The local pull a part has a few of these JGC and I need some boxes for projects.
I did this swap on my 72 and love it. Buddy's 71 S and my 72 wagon are getting it too.

4speed455

If your going to pull one from a junk yard you will need a pitman arm puller. I suggest you take off the pitman arms while the boxes are still mounted to the frame.

MDchanic

I pulled one a couple of months ago, and left two others.

My guy charges me $35 each for them, so I thought I'd grab all three if I could, but circumstances weren't right for all of them - positions of vehicles, other parts removed, etc.

The connection between the steering box and the pitman arm is a tough MF under the best of conditions, and on your back in the grease and poison ivy is not the best, but your best bet is always to do the job with the steering box on the car, so I would recommend a stout socket and a long pipe, as well as a pitman arm puller, so you can at least give it a good shot - if you fail, then have a tie rod end puller to get the other end of the pitman arm disconnected, and you can relieve the edges of the pitman arm with a whizzer at home and whack it off.

The hoses can usually be unscrewed without a problem, or they can just be cut.

The steering column connection has never been a problem for me, not have the three long bolts that connect the steering box to the frame.

After you take it off, it's not a bad idea to invert it over some unimportant surface and crank the steering column end lock to lock a bunch of times to spit out all of the ATF that you can, otherwise it will end up where you don't want it.

- Eric

eazy

I just want to clear up some confusion because this is sorta getting all over the place.

Lares 1353 steering gear ($106.89) + Lares 200 ragjoint ($16.25)+ O-Ring connectors (NAPA $20) = JGC setup on olds ($143.14)

Lares 973 = A-body setup, comes with ragjoint, and features the same style hose connections as the stock A-body setup, 3 hole mount ($131.79)

Lares 970 = OEM style Olds box. Same exact box as the 973, but has the extra tab that sticks out from factory. Box only. I guess GM used the same box with different internals on several cars, so they stuck with a 4 hole mount for all boxes? ($154.99)

Lares 974 = 10:1 steeting ratio. TIGHT. Lares "Performance" box, which the man from Lares told me has IROC internals, whatever that means. Comes with ragjoint, and accepts stock power steering lines. ($212.79)

NOW, the original purpose of this thread was to inform users of a cheap alternative to the stock box. You still can go to the junkyard and get a Jeep box for approx. $50 and a ragjoint for $5 from an early 80's GM pickup. Just remember to cut off the jeep hoses about a foot off the box, go to NAPA and get two flare couplings for $10 and you're done for about $70 plus your gas and time.

It seems that we can agree the Jeep box is an upgrade from the pinky steer we have with our old factory boxes. Confusion arose, mostly brought on by me, about the currently available options.

I believe Lares was wrong when they told me the 1353 jeep box is the same as the 973 A-Body box. It seems that the 1353 box brings these cars to 2.5 turns lock to lock, down from 3.5 turns. Also seems to bring a tighter feel.

Another thing Lares could not answer for me is that it seems the factory '96 JGC box would have a full 360 degree spline connector, which is why it would have worked with the Lares 200 coupling. It seems that the Lares reman boxes feature their own parts and combos. They know what their parts are compatible for, but I believe they may have changed the shaft where it accepts the ragjoint.

My next question is to those of you that used the dorman part with the 1353 box. Does that ragjoint have a flat side on the top where it goes on the shaft?

Hope this can clear some things up. I'm still pondering which setup to get, hoping to make a decision sometime this afternoon

MDchanic

GM used four fastening screws on some models, especially trucks.
The fourth lug doesn't interfere with anything on the three-lug models, but is not "accurate" in appearance.


The same internals as the IROC Z-28 Camaro (early eighties, if I recall), which was the box everyone used to go looking for, before they were all finally crushed several years ago.

- Eric

dfire25

Dorman part? Must have missed that one.

dfire25

They recommend the Lares 200 rag joint for the 1353, not the 202. It states that on Rockauto's and Lares website. Might be the same, but they say 200.

eazy

Oh, my mistake, the 202 is the one he said is not correct. The 202 has a 360 spline style. He said the splines will line up, but between 10-2 oclock there will be nothing and it will slip

allyolds68

Your previous post where you mention the 202 is a very nice summary. You should go back and edit it to correct it for the 200

young olds

for anyone else that needs reassurance before doing the swap, ive finally driven mine and its great! i went from manual steering and a stock huge wheel to the jgc box and a grant wheel(13" iirc) and i absolutely love the feel. nice and firm, not quite as hard as manual but you definitely know your steering something. and the steering is way faster, new box is half the turns lock to lock as the stock one.

allyolds68

Is there any way to tell if a JGC steering box is in good shape in the yard? I took a walk through the local yard at lunch yesterday and the steering wheels are locked and typically the wheels are sunk in the mud. The odometers are digital so you can't even check mileage. If you have a jump pack can you get the odometer to turn on? The yard has no records that they give on any vehicles. Do these boxes typically not wear out?

young olds

Idk, mine is from a junkyard. I figure it came out of a car that's 30 years newer it'll at least be better then what I took out

RAMBOW

When the JGC swap was first written up back around 2000-2001, those cars were only 5-6 years old and just starting to appear in wrecking yards usually with low miles. Now they are approaching 20 years old... So its a crap shoot.

The box i got had been messed with and the stiff input valving & t-bar swapped out for lesser componets- i was never very happy with it- Others have gotten great working boxes and have been thrilled.
For my one "bad" box, i know at least 10 guys who got good ones and were happy.

If you want to 100% be happy, buy a 12:7:1 AGR box from summit. $300 and you will be 100% satisfied.... Or buy a similar quick ratio, firm input reman box from one of the known steering box builders (red head gear, power steering service, etc etc)

Or pull a JGC box from a wrecking yard for $30 and roll the dice. Its still a good cheap option and odds are very good that it will be ok. You could pull several junk yard boxes and still be ahead of the price of an AGR or reman box.

Just some thoughts.
-Ben

allyolds68

Thanks. I found a 130k mile one on Craigslist for $25 that I'm picking up Saturday. It will keep me from crawling around in the mud at the junk yard and if it's a POS it will satisfy my core charge from Rock Auto.

young olds

im am absolutely %100 satisfied with my junkyard box, if i wasnt it doesnt take much to pull back off an use it as a core. but mine feels pretty stinkin tight for used, btw i only have about $130 in my complete swap from manual to power jgc.

MDchanic

Hey, Kids! Looks like Lee Power Steering is back in business!



http://leepowersteering.com/

- Eric

allyolds68

I ordered the gearbox and joint from Rock Auto this AM. I'll use the $25 Craigslist one for the $50 core charge. I ordered the adapters from Summit. Hopefully all my part numbers were correct. It didn't make sense to use a 130,000 mile box when I could get a remanufactured one for like $58.

DurasII

Which one did you order Mike?
I'm thinking of ordering the Lares 973 comes with joint and it is a direct connect for the hose's. $130.79 -$50.00 core charge comes to $80.79.

allyolds68

I ordered the Lares 1353 box with the Lares 200 joint

DurasII

You'll have to let me know how that one works out for ya. I will do the same.

allyolds68

The total out of pocket was less than $100 (plus the $25 I paid for the core) so I'm hoping it works out too. I've got to believe the rebuilt one is better than the rusty POS I got for $25.

DurasII

Yup exactly my thought process. A rebuilt has to be better. I should also be out of pocket around the $100 area. Haven't ordered it yet but will shortly. Still trying to figure out the wiring for the FM power antenna...

therobski

If Lees back on and you want to spend the $$$ its a piece of art.

DurasII

It sure looks like it's nice...what does he get for that kind of work?

allyolds68

Did anyone have an issue with the coupler being off one or two splines?


In a side by side comparison with a spare 68 box I have it appears the couplers are not lined up in the same location when turned to lock in either direction. I'm pretty sure this can be adjusted out of the steering linkage but I was just wondering if anyone else experienced this. I hate it when my steering wheel isn't centered.

MDchanic

Nope. Mine was dead on.

- Eric

allyolds68

It can really only go back together one way, correct?

MDchanic

"In theory"...

(actually, there are four ways to fit the pittman arm, but three won't work, and sometimes you can get the input shaft off by a spline, but it's a bit hard to).

- Eric

allyolds68

I'm good with the pitman arm. You can definitely get the input shaft off by one spline with the box and rag joint I just bought, but it would be in the wrong direction anyway

I'm sure it will sort itself out when I put it all together


BTW the total $$$ for this change is as follows

Craigslist Core Pump $25


Rock Auto

Lares 1353 steering box $56.89
Core Charge $50 (will get this back because I bought the $25 CL box)
Dorman 31011 rag joint $16.13
Shipping $26.27

Summit Racing

Borgeson 925122 hose adapters $14.25
Shipping $5.95


Total cost including credit for core charge = $144.49

71cutlass350

Im going to do the Jeep GC box swap and I need to get new hoses regardless. Are there any lines that both end will bolt right up or do I have to either use the flare adapters or attach new ends?