Northern Custom Cruiser

When i take off from a stopping point 0-20ish mph the front end of my 73 delta wobbles unsafly. Its not a high paced vibration, its like some sort of joint went horribly wrong. Everything appears to be original down under, ball joints have riveted dust covers as well. Rhe tie rods can be rotated almost 45 degrees. This problem came up quick, like in a few days so im just curious what might have specifically caused this and what more needs to be replaced before it can be driven somewhere i can adequately work on it besides upper and lower ball joints?

oldcutlass

Check the upper and lower control arm bushings.

TripDeuces

Lug nuts?

tru-blue 442

Wheel bearings?

Northern Custom Cruiser

Wheel bearings seem to be alright. Pretty much no play at all. And i hope id realize if it were the lug nuts

tru-blue 442

Front stabilizer bushings in good shape? Just spit balling, shocks? Any bubbles on the tires?

stan 65 cutlass

x2 ,bulge in tire

Northern Custom Cruiser

Sadly it doesnt seem to be as easy as the tire, however it feels just as bad as a severely bulged tire on both sides

76olds

Did you get a chance to check what Oldcutlass mentioned?
That could be your culprit if the Tires, stabilisers, tie rods ends , shocks etc seem OK.

Allan R

Define 'Wobbles unsafely'

Northern Custom Cruiser

As in the car drives like it has eggs for wheels under 25 mph..

Northern Custom Cruiser

And im planning on giving those bushings a look when i get back to the car here in a few. Other than sticking a pry bar under the tire while its jacked off the ground an inch or so are there any other ways to tell if the ball joints are bad?

oldcutlass

When they fall out of the sockets...

76olds

Did you have a pretty young woman up front with you when this took place?
Crazy question, but hey ya jus' never know
Put-er-ther!

Northern Custom Cruiser

So heres what everything looks like, the only thing being loose as it sits is the tie rods, which spin a fair amount which you can see in the two pictures of the lower ball joint as i has it spun as far as it would go in either direction. I has the car running with my head in each wheelwell as it was turned as far as it would go in the corresponding direction over and over again and everything moved in unison. I dont know exactly what to look for, but i dont see anything that seems out of place unless its all equally broken. Every picture is of the driver side and the passenger is the exact same condition.

Northern Custom Cruiser

Thats another story and another mph

76olds

I wonder if its a warped rotor due to a sticking caliper? You mentioned from a stop to 20MPHish .

Northern Custom Cruiser

Im not sure if your supossed to be able to see if a rotor is warped but they look brand new to me...

76olds

You can pull the front tires off and spin the rotors using a mag base and indicator if you have one , or, then apply the brake to see how quickly the pads come away from the rotor. It may be worth a looksie.
Did you get on the binders hard in the last few days?
The stabilisers look as thou they could be changed, but that wouldn't cause the issue your mentioning. It would just feel as though your drifting left to right.
Tire balance may give you some shuddering if they had to put heavy weights on the rims, other than that I really can't see to many issues.

oldcutlass

Rotors won't cause your issue, warped rotors reveal themselves when you apply the brakes with shaking of the car and pulsing pedal. Did you check the rubber control arm bushings?

Northern Custom Cruiser

Yes eric, i had the wheel turned all the way and kept turning it to its limit watching the bushings and there was almost no movement other than the control arm itself which was barely moving up and down which i would guess in normal. I'm really stumped....

Northern Custom Cruiser

And i do know what warped rotors feel like, and this isnt whats happening here. However the brake pads are resting lightly against the rotor

TripDeuces

Lose a wheel weight?

Allan R

The stabilizer bushings are totally hatched. The upper control arm nipple looks like it's corroded over. I'd be amazed it can allow grease through it. Tie rods should not rotate that much; they look overdue for changing. When was the last time this front end was even properly serviced and tested?

When you say it feels like the car is driving on eggs, that sounds an awful lot like a tire out of round condition. What does the ride feel like after 20 mph? How about 50-60 mph? Can you set up a caliper to measure any out of round while the front tires are manually rotated?

gs72

A tire can separate and not have a bulge. Try rotating the tires front to back and see if it moves to the back of the car. Doesn't cost anything to try.

Northern Custom Cruiser

Ill try moving the tires around a bit to isolate the problem. Allan, to the best of my knowledge it looks like this car has never been serviced in this area. I plan on doing the inner and outer tie rods as well as the upper and lower ball joints. Any other recommendations would be considered valuable.

After the rough stage under 20 mph it smoothens out almost completely, but backing out of the driveway and taking off is the worst. Ive tried going to parking lots and replicating the feeling but i cant always make it happen consistently. As i said when i first pull the car out its horrid, but in the parking lot looking at the car while its driving around nothing seems bad.

Allan R

If you're going to do the front end properly, you should also remove the control arms and do the bushings upper/lower. After it's all done, get a proper alignment. Part of the uneven ride suggests to me the alignment isn't good either. If you drive under 20 mph, coast and release the steering wheel. Does it pull one way or another? Is it the same when you have steady acceleration with no hands on the wheel? (Obviously do this check where there's lots of space and no traffic)

Northern Custom Cruiser

If im coasting and let the wheel go when the car is going straight it doesn't exactly pull to either side predominately but once the steering wheel goes left and right as the tire feels like its wobbling off by one lug nut. When you look at the tires as someone else is driving the car you cant see very much movement. In the car the whole thing rocks like its spacious bench seats are being appreciated. There is a higher pitched clang thats intermediate and not exactly routine.

Allan R

Front end rebuild time. You could have multiple issues that are manifesting themselves and making a single pin point diagnosis hard. Likely your front end parts and bushings need replacing. I had a 73 Custom Cruiser and remember it well. It was a whale that didn't like passing up gas stations. It had a 455 and ran hot a lot of the time in stop/go traffic. Front end work on your car is no different than an A body. I just looked at Rock Auto and they have all the parts you need to rebuild that front end. Not expensive as I thought.
When you do the work, if you aren't experienced - take pictures so you know how things were before they came apart. It would also be a great idea to invest in a 73 Chassis Service Manual (CSM). They are the bible that Olds techs used in the day for reference to repair these cars. eg: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1973-Oldsmobi...pZe8Lq&vxp=mtr I don't know if you can request 'Book Rate' for shipping, but if so it will reduce the shipping cost.

Gary M

I had a car that I put some used tires on. It did that, like there were flat spots in the tires. New tires, problem solved but looking at your pictures I say rebuild the front steering. Rotate the tires as suggested and see first.

oldcutlass

Do you think possibly something in the rear may be causing this issue? You might take a look at the rear control arm bushings and axle free play.

Allan R

Eric, chances are EVERY bushing in this car is shot. Did you see the picture of the stabilizer link bushings?? That would be a good indication of what they all look like.

Gary M

first,
this came on suddenly. What if anything have you changed?
any pot holes, tire changes, weird noises?
tires age and name brand?
motor runs smoothly thru the idle to rev?
lets face it, she needs a facelift (steering).
Motor to tranny bolts tight ( hey, reaching here but it is a mistery after all).

Gary M

I drove a company truck many moons ago that at a certain speed would shake violently. Go Faster and it would go away. Was the king pins. Steering components can act weird. Take it to a trusted shop and just say" check out the steering". See what they say. Get the tires balanced too just to be sure. Good luck.

Northern Custom Cruiser

Thanks all very much for the suggestions. I took it around the block yesterday and something is seriously wrong. I don't see how its shaking as violently as it is without something being obviously out of place. Im going to go around today and rotate all the tires and give everything a look. I wss under the impression that the control arm bushings are the uppermost bushing there.

Allan, what picture were you reffering too where you said the upper control arm nipple looks corroded over? If ive been IDing my parts correctly i dont think i snapped a shot of that and if i did then it seems ive mistaken some names

Northern Custom Cruiser

First picture i believe is the stabilizer bar bushing

Second, im not sure what thats called yet

Third and fourth are lower ball joint

Fifth and sixth are upper ball joint

Allan R

Close, but no. It's the stabilizer links. There's a set of 4 bushings per link and 2 sets of links per stabilizer. Those ones are totally shot. They come in a set (front stabilizer link kit). There's another set of bushings that hold the stabilizer to the front frame rails. They're held in metal sleeves bolted in place. Those are called stabilizer bushings. 2 per car. Note the orientation of the slot in bushing when removing and replacing

On the right is the Pitman Arm. It's connected to your power steering box. Next to that is the center link (aka drag link - 1 only), and that's attached to the inner tie rod (2 - one on each side, connected with a sleeve to the outer tie rod - one on each side, which is in turn connected to the axle spindle on each side). All these parts are normal to wear out.

Yup, and like I said the upper ball joint nipple looks like it's corroded shut. And those lower ball joints have way too much slop in them.

The upper ball joints are riveted in place which means these are likely the original ball joints. The upper ball joint goes in the Upper control arm, the lower is pressed into the Lower control arm.

If you look at where the control arms 'pivot' up and down you'll see another set of bushings. Likely they'e cracked and dried up. Those are called Upper and Lower control arm bushings. If everything looks like your stabilizer link bushings I'd bet your front end is falling apart.

I'm really curious what happened when you rotated front/rear tires. Somehow I doubt it will make any difference at all.

I also doubt it's the drive shaft (aka propeller shaft in CSM) because if anything the vibration an out of balance shaft would get worse at higher speed.

Northern Custom Cruiser

^^^^^^^^^ That is awesome. You, sir, said it better than any book or manual. This is why this is the best site in existance and id trust you guys guiding my hand over a shop any day of the year. Thank you and once i finish digesting all this info and tinkering around ill update.

Northern Custom Cruiser

Also, as you said, every bushing is the spitting image of what i showed you guys so it looks like im in for a facelift as Gary put it. Id have a shop give me their opinion if i think itd make it there!

oldcutlass

I'm betting the control arm rubber bushings are gone and the arms are just flopping around.