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I have been looking for a new camper, something small, easy or no set up and light weight and easy tow ( I will not over tax my vehicle )and I have specific boxes I want to check and while I have come close I may have to compromise, there are several RV dealers around here but they have limited inventory,
one good thing about being retired is I have the time to travel a little bit to different private sales or dealer ships.
Ok so here's the rant, today the wife and I decided to take a road trip to a dealer in Cottonwood Az. about 100 miles each way from where we live not a bad drive down I-17 then down state route 260 to Cottonwood (Fun 71 may be familiar with this route) the 260 is (was) is a pretty good road UNTILL THEY PUT THOSE DAMN ROUND ABOUTS IN !! there was about 5 of them between I-17 and Cottonwood, from what I understand their intention is to slow the flow of traffic to make it safer ! I say bull crap !!
I would like to see the before and after data supporting that !! I can tell you at least two times the cars in front of me stopped short
BRAKE CHECK !! I believe they were confused on where to go !! to me that's unsafe and a accident waiting to happen !!
also it had to cost millions to tear up a perfectly good road to install those damn things money that I say could have been better spent !! for road repairs etc...
RANT OVER ! foot note the sales person at the dealer was from Hungary when I complained about them he said he is used to them
they are all over Europe, I thought to my self that's one import we didn't need I HATE THEM !!!
P/S I'm probably crazy, Inflation driving prices up and gas prices around $5.00 a gallon here probably not a good time for this but I have a few things I want to do before I'm worm food and I'm trying to be optimistic that it will get better ( uhhh )
Yeah, I dislike them as well. I drive through one every day going to work.
My biggest complaint is folks don’t stay in their lane. There are two lanes going in and two lanes coming out, so you’d think it’s obvious there are two lanes going around the circle, but people going straight through drive through the arc and cut the other lane off. One guy passed me in the circle and drove into the left front Jeep tire and got a big ol black rub spot all down his right rear fender.
We’re getting roundabouts here in CA too. The big ones I hit are near Truckee, CA.
Yup, they’re new. Yup, they’re an import. Yup, they’re a change from traditional US 4 way stops. And no one warned us they were coming. Suddenly there were just in there one day.
Work wise, I’ve been through this. The technical fix works, but what needs to change is culture. Culture change is hard. No one wants to learn a new way of doing things when the benefit to them is not obvious. Or maybe there is no benefit.
The technical fix, I’d argue, is better. What’s missing is the US teaching drivers about how roundabouts work. Meaning mainly, always give way to the driver on your right. The simplicity & improved traffic flow is hard to ignore. But no officials, bureaucrats or anyone else spent any time or money telling drivers how to use roundabouts.
Once you see that you’re not doing that dance about who gets to enter the intersection next, my view is they’re better. I first came across them in Ireland and was impressed. People there knew how to use them, did their bit, and the system worked beautifully. Scotland too. Critical to roundabouts working is the idea that drivers know how to navigate them. Looks like the traffic planners forgot to consider educating drivers on their latest plaything.
By my house is a particularly weird 7 or 8 way stop. Old locals know what to do. You should see the new drivers try to figure out when to go. They have no idea. Nor do people who don’t live in the area, or bring in work trucks. The confusion (even if everybody is well meaning) is obvious. So why not go with a yield-to-the-person-on-your-right?
I’m 58, but fighting the urge to rant. Thus far. I fully respect your right to rant & hate, but on this one, I humbly suggest you consider adapting. The challenge is yours, adjust or not. Much as my capacity for adjusting to change is falling, this is one I can deal with.
It’s not like they’re going to go back to 4-way stops just for us, right? Or leaded gas, or incandescent bulbs, or (in CA) Xylene, Tolulene and other effective chemicals.
I was fortunate to be schooled by USAF on driving thru those roundabouts from 3/65 to 3/66 in Thailand. 4 lanes with all kinds of traffic from smallest scooters carrying 4 people to all kinds of trucks and busses with all kinds of cargo. It's just a matter of learning and trusting drivers to follow the proper courtesies. What is lacking here in the U.S. is following rules which many believe they are not responsible for following at all. The use of roundabouts will continue to grow. Practice makes perfect.
Roundabouts are becoming more widespread. The first rule is that vehicles in the roundabout have the right of way. Vehicles coming into the roundabout yield to those in the roundabout.
If we would have been taught to "yield to the lift" instead of the right, for all our lives, we would transition easier. Why were we taught to yield to the person on our right ? Couldn't it have been to our left instead ?
If we followed the "yield to the right" thing, the roundabouts would be jammed up. People coming into the roundabout would have the right of way and those in the roundabout would have to stop.
In Europe. they drive on the wrong side of the road.
I have a double roundabout near me. One roundabout on each side of the freeway. It does flow more traffic, but you have to be alert.
Compare the number of fatalities on a round about to a intersection with street lights. Not a fan but in todays world with phone texting and speed there the safest.
I'm going to continue your rant because I absolutely hate roundabouts. I took my family to Sedona, AZ for spring break this year. On the drive from the Phoenix airport to Sedona there were 6 or 7 of those roundabouts on highway 260 between I-17 and Cottonwood; a stretch of highway only 12 miles long and in the middle of nowhere. First let me say that I am a very attentive driver, but we were nearly sideswiped in one of them, almost rear-ended once and forced out of our lane several times as we navigated through these traffic merry-go-rounds. I'm sure some traffic-planning engineer somewhere is patting themself on the back for including the roundabouts in their highway design but they were not easy to navigate and down right frightening. Maybe if they were built about twice the diameter and the lanes were significantly wider they wouldn't be so terrifying. The ones we encountered along highway 260 had very narrow lanes with small turning radii making them a high challenge just to stay in your own lane let alone plan ahead for your exit once you got into the circle!
End of rant!
Once GDOT changed their minds about them. My city has gone bat $hit crazy building them. In one section of town there are 6 in less than a mile. Like most things they have their good point and bad, But they have become WAY over used
Keeping traffic moving is a good thing Until you have to make a left hand turn to get out of a private drive, them you need a Break in the traffic
we were nearly sideswiped in one of them, almost rear-ended once and forced out of our lane several times as we navigated through these traffic merry-go-rounds.
Yep, that's been my experience as I said above.
I think the main problem is that some people can't be bothered with driving when they're behind the wheel.
But, but....I look forward to stopping at stoplights with my pet Schnoodle lodged between me and my steering wheel pretending I know how to drive....we have this bonding time with every stop light and stop sign we encounter.
Roundabouts are good for low levels of traffic, but, once you get to high volumes, they're worse than stop signs or traffic lights. They're pushed for high traffic urban areas since they're thought of as European, and city people tend to like European ideas.
Location: Spring, summer South Dakota otherwise Texas
Posts: 207
A woman I was following coming up on a circle (roundabout) decided to go straight thruthe low curbs on the edge ot the circle didn't even slow her down. Much quicker route and scares the s#it out of the other drivers.
I'm going to continue your rant because I absolutely hate roundabouts. I took my family to Sedona, AZ for spring break this year. On the drive from the Phoenix airport to Sedona there were 6 or 7 of those roundabouts on highway 260 between I-17 and Cottonwood; a stretch of highway only 12 miles long and in the middle of nowhere. First let me say that I am a very attentive driver, but we were nearly sideswiped in one of them, almost rear-ended once and forced out of our lane several times as we navigated through these traffic merry-go-rounds. I'm sure some traffic-planning engineer somewhere is patting themself on the back for including the roundabouts in their highway design but they were not easy to navigate and down right frightening. Maybe if they were built about twice the diameter and the lanes were significantly wider they wouldn't be so terrifying. The ones we encountered along highway 260 had very narrow lanes with small turning radii making them a high challenge just to stay in your own lane let alone plan ahead for your exit once you got into the circle!
End of rant!
CDROD, those are exactly the roundabouts I am talking about !! to many, and to narrow
I don't have the data on accidents involving fatality's on that stretch of the 260 and I might agree that if it is high a fender bender in a round about would be better than a fatality. However some may say it's progress ,I define progress as something where the end result is improvement. As I said I don't see the improvement but that could just be me.
Previous poster Chris mentioned education on the use of round abouts, I agree that had we grown up around them or been schooled on their use in drivers education in high school they may be less frustrating. I'm hopeful that younger drivers will become used to them since they are popping up a lot.
I have seen a solution I understand, when I used to go visit my sister there was a pretty busy street in her neighborhood, It became busy because it was a popular short cut to avoid a very long traffic lite. Once it became a problem the city installed a diamond shaped median with lanes that slightly curved around it and warning signs as you approached indicating "slow down traffic control ahead" they even landscaped the diamond making it quite attractive, I'm sure the parents of children and most pedestrians applauded their solution.(i guess it was just a different kind of round about)
I still am not a fan and I think Koda's video shows the reason why.
I dislike the things on general principle. They're seen as a New England thing here.
Town 20 miles southeast hired a new traffic engineer from, you guessed it, Connecticut, and he immediately set about pushing for "rotarys" to manage traffic.
He got one built, right near the town offices where he could see it from his office window.
Meaning he got to see two to four crashes a week the first six months it was there, until people figured out how to work it.
The stupid thing is barely 40 feet diameter and large vehicles simply cannot navigate it. A misguided solution to a problem that didn't exist.
Going back to the vehicle in the roundabout has the right of way, a lot of drivers here do not get that, in an interchange, traffic in the main road has right of way and on-ramp traffic is required to yield to thru traffic and traffic exiting off the main road.
Until electronic device use behind the wheel of a vehicle is made a primary offense with fines, points and insurance hits, stupid driving isn't going anywhere.
I have been down the strech of road many times. These things are screwy compared to others.
I believe 60 MPH between each one. Four lane squished together just before round a bout at 30mph?? Then back to 60.
This is a shot of the one near the shooting range on 260. Really messed up theory I think.
If I remember right of the 5 or so round a bouts, only 2 actually have another road you can turn on. Otherwise all are 'proposed roads'
We have them sprouting up around me here in Michigan. Oh, lordy, did the community Facebook pages blow up with complaints, especially for the one that was going in at a very busy, very backed-up intersection in a NE corner of the township. Lo and behold... those complaints are gone. People are amazed at how the traffic flows thru there at rush hour. Backups that used to be a mile long in each direction coming into that intersection are gone. So, the argument that they don't work well for busy locations has sure proven incorrect, at least for our example here in my locality.
Personally, I do not mind them, except for when they put ones in at a place that never seemed to be a problem for traffic, nor for accidents.
They are simply “shrunk” traffic circles or rotaries, which have existed in the northeast for decades. Many original interchanges in the Boston area featured circles as an integral part of the interchange.
Believe these “newer” small ones represent the general trend of “cheapening” or design regression. Too many public sector “planner & engineer” types want to jam too much into too small of a space. Leads to congestion, visual blight, and in some cases, more accidents.
In North Eastern Detroit area, they have started putting roundabouts in all over. The local news did a thing about them and interviewed someone from one of the road departments and they said the premis is to decrease T-bone accidents, although they noted they want to make the roundabouts narrower to increase fender benders so people drive slower.
Personal think they need to teach people on how to drive vs installing roundabouts, also accident occurrences went up by 74%, so needless to say guess the experts achieved their goals, wonder why MI has the highest insurance rates....
Also note in my drivers training, roundabouts were never discussed let alone taught, so they installed them and let people try and figure them out on their own.
... although they noted they want to make the roundabouts narrower to increase fender benders so people drive slower.
That is undeniably one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard, but it's not the only idiot idea coming out of traffic planning and engineering schools. The push to completely computerize traffic signals is right up there with it. The preference is to set the PLCs to "random automatic" and let their algorithms control the lights, meaning they're totally unpredictable and often result in a clump of 60 or more vehicles backed up trying to navigate a main road. "Traffic calming". Yeah right.
Personal think they need to teach people on how to drive vs installing roundabouts, also accident occurrences went up by 74%, so needless to say guess the experts achieved their goals, wonder why MI has the highest insurance rates....
"But- but- I got a degree in traffic engineering!" These knuckleheads are also in their offices most of the time instead of traveling thru towns watching the mess their education has created.🙄
May 7th, 2022, 08:44 PM
