For 13 years after Oldsmobile was shut down it really did not affect me because we always buy used cars with roughly 100,000 miles on them. Well, they have been gone long enough that we had to venture into other brands for a few years. Our first was a GMC Acadia with 100K miles. What a pile of garbage that was! Never in my life have I found such a poor excuse of a car on a quality standpoint. I hear they are great for the first 100K miles but I don't generally buy cars till they have roughly 100K on them. All my friends had the same problems with there as we had. We ditched that and picked up a Chrysler Town and Country. It is nice and not had a problem with it but there is just something about it... We just don't get that "I like my vehicle" feeling with it that we had with every Oldsmobile we ever had. I tried a Ford truck and was ok but ditched it in about two months. Well, For reasons I will not go into here I decided to toss the man card and get a Toyota Prius. It has 225,000 miles on it and this thing runs and drives like it is new from the dealership. Sure, it has bumps and bruises but it performs perfect so far. It is smooth and handles much nicer than ever dreamed it would. This was to be my daily driver for a while but my wife and kids fell in love with it as well. Now, whoever has to drive the farthest that day gets the Prius. I test drove a friends Camry to see how it was and love it as well. I will stick to my GM trucks but our next good family car will likely be a Toyota.

 

Have a 2012 Toyota Rav4 has almost 180.000 miles. It has been very good for me.

 

Anything but a Toyota. Hell a Honda is lite years better.

 

We have owned several Toyota and Honda automobiles. Both were excellent. My DD is a Lexus and I love it. 93,000 miles and haven't spent a dime on it other than regular maintenance.

 

We are on our 2nd 4Runner with 250k. We also have a Camry and a Tundra.. Toyota vehicles can be expensive but in the long run they are worth it. I doubt if I will ever own a modern GM vehicle again.

Don W

 

I'm right there with ya. Nothing but Toyota products here @ Stone Broke Acres. Went to Toyota after Olds quit us and haven't regretted it a single time. My Highlander was built in IN & my Chevrolet truck was built in Mexice,screw GM.

 

Have a 2018 Tundra which replaced our 2011 Sienna after my wife wrote it off. Both great vehicles even if the Tundra's a little thirsty, bought both new.
2011 Corolla XRS (2.4 liter 5 speed sport suspension) bought new and still going strong

Oldest daughter started with a clapped out 199something Tercel, upgraded to a used 2003 Corolla, replaced with a used 2005 Corolla and just bought a new 2022 Corolla
Youngest daughter started with a creampuff of a used 2001 Echo which didn't survive a bear jumping in front of it...but daughter was unscathed if not a little shaken. Replaced with a used 2009 Corolla and now driving a 2018 Corolla she bought used.

Might say we kinda like the Toyotas here!

 

I will probably never own a "Foreign" name brand car. - for no good reason- I admit. Ideals are pretty ingrained here in Michigan and buying locally produced cars is a big one still for us who lived thru that era... Oh I know some "Foreign" cars are now produced here in the US, but for me the name has a stigma. If I were younger and figured I had many more vehicles to purchase in my lifetime I probably would be more likely to buy a non domestic make. But I don't put down anyone who buys a Toyota, or others anymore, sure used to though....

 

Best vehicle I ever owned was a 2003 Toyota Highlander. Drove it all over North America putting over 300 thousand miles on it. No regrets.

 

I fought it forever. 10 years ago I never dreamed I would go with a foreign name car. I am seriously thinking about getting into rebuilding the batteries on these cars and figured I needed to get one to play with before I start doing them for other people.

 

Toyota 4Runner 4.7 V8 here with 320K miles and it still drives like the day we bought it from the dealer. Toyota is not #1 in US sales by coincidence.

 

Same for me. I support my local economy, and my wife's pension, by sticking with GM. Everything in my driveway and garage, as well as the previous 3 vehicles (and likely 4) have all been GM AND assembled in the US -- so that's the last 7 or 8 that I've owned. I typically stay away from first year of a model changeover, and know the issues with the vehicles and drivetrains for a particular model so I know what to avoid. I did get burned by the '08 Equinox that I bought last year for my son (rebuilt trans and just got it back from a disaster of a timing chain job), but considering I made it to 50 years of age before ever having the kinds of headaches that the Equinox has given me, I just scratch my head when I hear people complain about quality issues. I'm certainly not going to ditch GM because I got burned on a used vehicle with 115k on the clock. What it did teach me is that I'll never buy another used car that is over 50k, so that I have more insight into the service history like fluid change intervals and the type of fluids used. Anyone buying a GM vehicle ought to know by now that you don't go by the oil life indicator, you still change oil every 3-5k miles with full synthetic. I suspect that's the reason why the timing set needed to be changed at 115k on the Equinox, as I got rid of my Enclave with over 190k that hadn't needed a timing set yet.

All that said, I'm not going to tell other people what to buy. It's your money, your decision, and if people would just stay out of everyone else's business, we'd sure get along better.

 

Made in America: Top Cars with Most North American Parts Content (motortrend.com)

 

I don't notice the blob in the foreground, but I sure am envious of that row of beautiful Olds parts cars.

 

If GM ever makes something other than a truck that I feel has some quality I may go back. I was warned about the Acadia and that car family but we got one anyway. Such a let down with as nice as it comes across in the setup of the car. Around my area you can't find a shop to even work on them unless it is a simple brake job or something like that. All the local shops refuse to work on them. Well, The chevy dealership will work on them but that is all. There are a few others that will but price it so high that the chevy dealer is cheaper. That is what put me over the edge and decided to sell it. It needed transmission work, AC work and a timing set. Every shop said sell it ASAP and don't waste the money. They also said to sell it out of town so the next guy didn't bring it there.

 

The 3.6 apparently requires a special carrier tool for doing the timing set. I'm on my 3rd vehicle with this engine, and properly maintained, it's great. There's a not-quite-pcv-valve (more like an orifice) that has a tendency to plug because the holes in it are too small. On my Enclave, I had read about that well before it turned 100k miles, so I bought a new one thru Rock Auto, drilled the holes out larger, and replaced the old one. If that orifice gets plugged, it contributes to oiling issues and needing the timing set done earlier (according to others that are more qualified than I am to speak on it). I didn't have a problem finding a shop to work on the Equinox, but one of the new cam actuators failed, so the shop had to re-do the job and address the heads. The full timing set, as I'm sure you found out, is expensive. It's recommended to replace everything in there, from the sensors and actuators, to the water pump. The parts alone add up to around $1700.

I will say that my Lacrosse is the best vehicle I've ever owned. I drove a fully packed car with 4 adults from MI to New Orleans, then to Gulf Shores, and back to MI, averaging 35.5mpg for the whole trip.

I think you'll need to start a build thread for that Prius if you ever get to the point of servicing the battery pack on it. That will be interesting to hear details. I don't personally know anyone that has owned a hybrid or electric long enough to need battery service.

 

There is really good money in rebuilding the battery packs but I got into it a little late. Lots of guys have figured it out and are doing it now. For what they are charging, I could do it less and still make good money. I am just experimenting now but will likely get into it. A local guy has bought and sold over 70 of these cars that had a bad battery. He fixes the battery and then sells the car for over double what he paid for it with not much invested to fix it.

 

I feel the same way. I have have contractors visit to give me estimates for repairs to my house driving imports,and told them not to bother. I live in a town where a huge portion of its population work for 2 of the Big 3, if you won’t support the people who pay for your services, don’t bother me.

Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

 

My 2 cents here! I have owned two incognito Toyotas and both had issues. Geo Prizm with 10k when I bought it, car ran well but I had a shake when decelerating it would hit right around 45 mph dealer said we have a twin and change out all of the tires and wheels and see if it goes away. Nope. Lived with it,

Had a new 2009 Vibe tinny piece of garbage. In two years an overhead console would vibrate 7 times to the dealer with no fix. Blew an A/C line. Spit out wheel center caps, like they were going out of style. Again, a decelerating problem, going from 55mph down to a stop the car transmission would bang down so hard from 2 to 1 it would shake the car. Dealer could not fix it till I found a GM mechanic in Minnesota posted an online fix for the issue. Car was gone at 30k had enough.

I have a 2017 Silverado 4x4 just one issue in 5 years was a leaky HMSL fixed under warranty.

Pat

 

That's unfortunate. Even though those cars were built at NUMMI (the GM-Toyota alliance UAW plant) that is now closed and I think is a Tesla plant, they should have had better quality.

 

Since this post is full of opinions---here’s mine!

I always find it interesting to hear about how people have distanced themselves from the big three cars and will only chose a truck or some other unique vehicle. As a person that’s owned over 100 GM cars in the last 35 years and driven well over a million and a half miles in them…I still remain allegiant to the brand and the Americanness of the GM Company! Has GM made great decisions through the years and do I agree with all of them? Absolutely not! I have friends that work on Hondas, Toyotas, and other foreign automaker brands and guess what---they make a good living at maintaining and repairing those brands too. I take pride in maintaining my vehicles and they last well into the hundreds of thousands of miles as well. I hear from people all the time who are “Car experts” and attempt to convince me on why their foreign car company is better. Living in CO now, I enjoy the hail storm stories throughout the summer from those who own the foreign cars with the thin sheet metal panels. Just last year at my office, a hail storm went through and damaged all the foreign cars and ruined all the metal on their roofs, hoods, and other body panels. My new Chevy Impala was sitting right in the middle of the foreign cars that were damaged and it was unmarked and left without a scratch. I’ve witnessed that same story over and over myself and with some of my friends. Just this morning as I was reading this post, a co-worker was describing some very strange electrical problems on his Toyota 4Runner and his FJ.

As a person that used to work at the GM dealerships and has worked on over 5K vehicles there and many more now in my hobby shop—sure there were some fantastic creations that came out of GM and the other big 2……. and some that well---were not! Lol but each car manufacturer has had that same track record. I grew up near Lordstown, OH in the GM car and steel belt near Pittsburgh. I also spent time working for Delphi and regularly visited Flint and Detroit when I worked for GM. We were taught and raised to support the American companies as best as we could and that’s still a tradition that I closely follow today and have passed down to my kids. I intentionally search out American parts and companies when/where I can find them and will even pay significantly more for a part or product if I know that I can support an American company. Some of the foreign cars are only produced or assembled here in the US to avoid the taxes and tariffs from foreign countries like Japan or South Korea. I can point out a foreign car company automobile blindfolded by opening the doors, hearing them shut, pushing on the sheet metal, and riding in them. Once you grow accustomed to the differences…it’s easy to pick out one vs. the other. It saddens me that many just don’t think this way any longer when they make a purchasing decision no matter whether it’s a vehicle or an air compressor. Thank goodness there are still choices to be made in this great Country.

To build on what matt69olds posted, I had a visitor come to my house the other day and said---if you had to buy a foreign automaker car—what would it be? I told him—NEVER! I would not bet on me ever buying a foreign car unless I was gifted a Ferrari or something super-car exotic! My American loyalty runs deep in my blood and I have no intention of changing that! I’m in love with my 2020 Chevy Impala and my brand new 2022 GMC AT4 Duramax Sierra. In my opinion and from my professional and personal experience, all the big three cars and trucks have made significant progress in all areas since I started working at dealerships in the mid-80s.

 

I was the same way on cars my entire life. USA or nothing. I am not sure that there is any more American in a GM car than a Toyota other than a name. I am not bashing GM or USA made stuff, I prided myself in only having 8 parts not made in the USA on my Jetfire. Only thing I will really bash is the poor excuse of a vehicle GM made in the Acadia family. Just junk garbage in my opinion. I even tried the Chrysler and I think the quality is ok but we just don't feel the same about it as we have other cars in the past. I am not yet 100% sold on Toyota yet, In my title I even said "maybe." I do like what I have experienced so far from a 225,000 mile car that I would consider as a disposable car. It is literally a smoother ride than our 2015 Town & Country or the Acadia we had. I have yet to turn a wrench on it so I can't speak to that yet. I am sure I would rather work on a GM product because after 35 years of working on primarily GM stuff, I am use to their unique way of things over the other brands.

I will say, I do like how the new Town & Country has the oil filter setup right on top with no mess.

Also keep in mind, My experience is with 100K or higher mile cars. If you only have newer stuff you are never going to experience what I buy. Every car should last 200,000 miles today without major repairs in my opinion.

 

Look if you really want to get some data how good a vehicle is in general look here:



https://www.carcomplaints.com/


It will give one a good general ballpark. I used this before I bought my 1997 GMC pick up, everyone of the problems people identified, eventualy became true on mine over time.. I accepted the potential problems up front, your results may vary.... Good Luck..

 

My brother in law (my sisters husband) is incredibly cheap. This is a guy who gave up smoking not because of the health benefits, but because they raised the price of pack of smokes. He drove a Hyundai, it was the tinniest piece of **** car I have ever been in. It rattled, you felt every bump, it really felt like you were riding in a can. Whenever you comment on the lousy ride, rattles or tinny sound, he would always reply “it’s s cheap car”.

He also drove s cavalier, while those aren’t great cars, I’d much rather drive it than the import junk he thought was so great. I recall one time he complained about the plastic chrome coating peeling off the wheel cover of the Cavalier, he said what can you expect from an American car company. 🙄. Right. Cosmetic flaw on a high mileage car (that took YEARS to rear its ugly head) verses years of driving a tin can.

I have told this story many times, I’ll tell it again. When my oldest stepdaughter was nearing driving age, she want me to go with her and look at a few used cars. When she said one of them was a Toyota/Honda/whatever, I told he she needs to either negotiate a pair of comfortable shoes, or to budget enough money to buy a pair, as she will be needing them. She asked why, those are suppose to be reliable cars. I told her she would be doing some walking, because she will have to park it down street. No way in hell will she park that import crap in my driveway.

I’m ready for the “ok boomer” comments.

 

I don't buy the it's made in America argument for the foreign cars. Supporting American workers. They use American resources. Sure, but what about the American cars built by American workers, using American resources. And another thing, follow the money. Where do the profits go from the sale of the "Americanized" foreign cars? Right back to the homeland.

I hate when I see US Military people driving foreign cars. I realize they are working/fighting for the right to choose whatever they want. It doesn't seem right to me.

Sincerely, Eric, I'm glad you found something you like and I hope you have good luck with it.

 

Hmmm yeah there are some good Foreign brands out there, I have not had or wont ever buy one. A glutton for punishment I am. Am old school American car brand loyal. Daily driver a 92 Custom Cruiser that I just put an engine in, 05 Avalanche that has been decent, bought new, with 66,000 miles now differential needed new bearings. Should not have happened... My wife got her moms 04 Deville Northstar, head gasket failed at 100,000 miles which means replace the engine which we did. Also had to remove trans to replace a tiny part inside on that, also had wiring problems in an injector circuit. Thankfully a tree fell on it last year and insurance totaled it. 05 SRX bought new has 138000 on it and all the brake lines needed replacement due to rot, AC condenser rotted away. Seems to have a thurst for oil. Just picked up a 93 Roadmaster sedan 27,000 original miles so will see how that goes...

 

The '05 Lesabre I sold off last year had the brake lines rot away. I cannot stand when the OEM's cheap out on using corrosion-resistant components. I realize the car was 17 years old, but those brake lines looked like they were under salt water when I first bought the car used in '11. I had probably 85% of the lines redone, the only ones that still needed it when I sent her on her way were from the ESC module down to the front brakes. Everything else had been replaced, even the lines from the ESC module to the master cylinder.

Being up here in the rust belt, I have learned that I will never buy a Stellantis product. Watching the sheet metal fall off of their Ram and Jeep products within 5-7 years is still shocking after all these years of witnessing it occur.

Anyway, back on the topic of Eric's new-to-him Prius, I just referenced this thread in the other topic regarding GM reportedly ending service for the EV Spark. That was a fun read. 🙄

 

Yeah those types of rust and corrosion things happened so much to the cars I always seemed to work on when living in OH. We actually charged customers straight time on top of some of the typical Motors Manual repair times (when I worked at the dealer) to deal with rusted and corroded parts due to the salt on the roads and moisture in the air. I used to replace allot of brake lines and such as well.

I can say one of the many blessings for living in CO is that native West cars and trucks are just not rusted at all like they are in the mid West and East. You can take a 40 year old bolt that has never been loosened and hit it with a squirt of WD-40 then the impact and it buzzes right off.

 

As someone in the industry, I do not put much faith in brand loyalty. I don't think the Big 3, due to actions by their executives and their unions, are owed anyone's loyalty. While I am aware of how they have supported regions, other companies also support their areas with their plants, and I am not sure anyone should be proud to claim to support Detroit with as bad as that city has become in areas.

It is worth noting that the big 3 builds in Canada and Mexico. It is also worth noting that the imports build a lot of cars in the USA, with the vast majority of parts coming from the USA. It helps to look at assembly point of the vehicle, and the percentage parts content domestic vs foreign on the sticker. It is also worth noting that all big automakers are publicly traded on stock markets, which means that the stockholders, the true "owners" of a company, are global. Where a board sits is irrelevant other than the local employment impact of staffing that HQ.

My advice for people on this issue is: buy the best car for you. Research that, check quality reports, and features/performance. If foreign/domestic is a concern, look at parts content and assembly point of the car on the sticker. I own a made in USA Tacoma, and a made in Mexico Tahoe.

 

Right. My homer-ism to GM is bred from my Dad retiring from Buick City (which is a big, overgrown slab of concrete now) and my wife having worked there. Being Michigan-based, and the HQ in Detroit, also means that my support of GM directly supports the LOCAL economy here in MI. I wouldn't fault folks living in East Liberty or Marysville, OH for buying a Honda, because that support their local economy. Or you, John, buying Toyota for the obvious reason that you work for them. Many J, K, or EU OEM vehicles are developed here in the US because the NA market is unique for our desire to drive SUV's and trucks.

And x2 on research, quality, features. Ask friends and acquaintances. Anecdotal evidence is sometimes just that, but one can always glean some insight based on others' experience.

 

I have two friends that each own a Prius, both with high miles on them now, one over 250k, the other hanging in at 150k. The only maintenence has been tires and brakes, that's it. I drove GM vehicles for 40 years, they just kept getting worse, something in them will allways bite you in the a$$. I will not own another one unless it is a vintage one.

 

US Automakers need to seriously ramp up their quality to compete

 

There was a guy in my town years ago that had a Purple Heart vanity on his car with WW2 B-29 as the number. The real shocker to me was the fact it was on a Corolla.

 

Since you were brave enough to admit that you owned a Prius, I will do the same. Years ago when gas prices were high and I was driving a lot, the cheapskate in me decided to lease a Prius. It was easily the cheapest car to operate that I ever "owned," but it was sooooo boring.

We lived in a development with cookie cutter homes, and there was only one other house in the neighborhood with the same floor plan as ours. It belonged to our neighbor right across the alley from us. One day, I am getting in my Prius just as my neighbor in the "twin" house of ours came out to go to work in her Maserati. We waved to each other and got in our respective cars.

"VRRRROOOOOM!!!" Her engine fired to life sounding like a lion's roar. Meanwhile, I pushed the start button on my Prius, and it went "Beep. Beep. Beep." That was the moment I began to hate my Prius. Clearly I was doing something wrong when my neighbor with the same house had a Maserati and I had a Prius. I turned it in early and never looked back.

That said, Toyotas are rock solid, and as many point out, often made in America by American workers with American made parts. Heck, their American headquarters is in Plano, TX, near my office, and they employee something like 5000 Americans in that office. Their stock even trades on the NYSE. That is about as American as any other American company.

My GM loyalty ended when GM killed Oldsmobile and Saturn. My first Saturn was a 95 SL2 that had virtually no GM shared parts. It was probably the best built car I ever had. Each subsequent Saturn I owned (we had 4 total) had more and more GM parts and each was worse than the previous.

Bottom line, it is your money. Buy what you want.

 

Funny you say that, My wife wants me to put a set of horns in ours from the Jetfire. I plan to do it soon. May not be a manly car but at least I can have a manly horn, lol. We actually really like this car so far. I picked up a couple batteries from a scrap yard and rebuilding them. If all goes well I will start doing them for other people.

 

A big horn in a Prius would be hilarious. I’m thinking one of those big rig horns.

Honestly, the Prius was really good. I got 50mpg all day every day with no drama. I even drove it like I stole it and got 50mpg. It was just basic transportation.

My wife driven a Lexus SUV for 6 years, and you’d think it was brand new. Rock solid, and she drives like she is in labor headed to the hospital.

My brother swears by Hondas, but besides being boring, they just feel cheap. I never felt like that in a Toyota.

 

My daily driver is a Tacoma with a 4 banger 5 speed. 275k in 15 years. Not many issues, but some. I take decently good care of it, but it does get parked outside. I've put probably 150k of that on the car on the clock for Toyota. It's a reliable, good, little truck.

I feel no passion driving it. I own 5 other vehicles and an additional engine. V8s. 302, 350s, 400s, 455. I do like the 3UR 350 in the Tundra, and the 3.5L 2GR is a great engine that we are, for some reason, mostly replacing with a 4cyl turbo. Perhaps it is not Toyota, but no replacement for displacement I feel.

 

People and their car expectations and opinions continue to amuse me. Just three days ago, my wife and I went to dinner with friends. They arrived at our house and I went to the garage to start up my Impala for all four of us to ride in. They insisted that we ride with them in their NEW Lexus RX450 SUV. I can say that I wasn’t excited but I was trying to be a team player and said—Ok! Why Not. We drove about 30 mins to dinner and then 30 min home. I looked, listened, and examined the car as we rode while conversation occurred during the ride. When my wife and I finally got home, she asked me---what did you think of the Lexus? Before I could say anything---she looked at me and we both were like AHHHH NO! Never! We had made the rounds to the dealers about five years ago and even drove a couple Lexus SUVs before she settled on her current Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland. We hated them for many reasons and still do. This one was loud inside, the doors felt like they were made of thin tin, and the interior cabin was just plain old looking and under whelming just like they had been over five years ago. The Toyotas were the same way. The screens look like they are an afterthought and stuck in the vehicle right before it leaves the factory. It’s not integrated into the dash at all. Looks like it’s just a portable screen sitting on top of the center of the dash. Cracks me up! The owners of this new SUV have been through four import cars to include two Toyotas, one Mazda, and now this Lexus in the past 12 months because they all had issues for one reason or another. We’ll see how long they keep this Lexus.

My other friend owns a Honda and Acura repair shop and I often go there to see and visit him. About three months ago, I was there when he was doing some suspension work on one of the Honda cars. He called me over to show me how cheaply the metal was for the front knuckle and steering assembly. He then proceeded to tell me the pricing for that part. We both laughed and said----and people hate the GM cars! Lol. This part would be made better and cost 1/4 as much if it weren’t for a Honda!

As I read the forums, people continue to bash some of the manufactures for their dash and entertainment screens being too “small”. This is also amusing to me. One of my other neighbors was telling me all about his new Dodge RAM 1500 and his screen. He picked me up for lunch one Friday and we went to town. I gazed nearly the whole ride at this new “large” screen. I looked at the icons, the menus, the information, and etc. to see if I could agree with the hype about having a larger screen. Being a senior IT computer and cyber guy, I was intrigued at how large some of the information was presented on the screen. After, I concluded that my eyes are fine, my GM vehicle screens present nearly all of the same information just in smaller fonts and icons, and I don’t ever plan on needing a large screen to watch a movie or text when I am driving. But people have latched on to this screen size thing and believe it’s the most important “must-have” feature on a new vehicle. Lol

As far as MPG, I’m happy with the 30+ MPG that I get on my new Impala. My pilot neighbor who’s deep into racing has several GM trucks. His latest is a 2020 Silverado 1500 with the mini Duramax which now has like 30K miles on it. He informed me last week that he is getting over 40 MPG with that truck empty and nearly 35 MPG towing 8K lbs. With those types of numbers, I still feel like our vehicles are in the game and competing at the front of the pack with the imports. More importantly, they already come with “manly” horns.

 

]

Picked up a couple battery packs at a scrap yard and playing with these now. I have cycled and load tested one and is at roughly 68% of life left. Takes 30 days to do all the cycling with my little hobby charger, lol. Just started the second battery last night and from the first module it looks like it may have 90% capacity in this one. If 90%, this one will last another 100,000 to 175,000 miles. I am enjoying these for now. May upgrade to a better charger setup and start rebuilding them for people.