Macadoo

Propane hasn't been a "good deal" since we moved to the country five years ago but for god's sake, it jumped from $1.79 a gallon to $2.99 last week! We live in an old house, actually a converted one room schoolhouse from 1836, but it has been renovated and is pretty tight with new windows and doors. But these gas bills are hard to swallow. We have a wood-burning furnace in the basement I could hook up but I called around today and a cord of wood has jumped in price as well. Figure in the time, hassle, gas for the truck, and wood doesn't seem to be the answer either. forecast for tonight is -3 to -6 with 35mph winds.
The real irony here is that our landscape out here is speckled with natural gas pumps.
Sorry for the rant. Just frustrated. This winter is eating into my Olds budget.

Nilsson

Wow, I guess you could call that propain.

Allan R

Propane hasn't been a good deal for a longer time than you think. When it was popular up here it cost around 12¢/L. Now you get to choose which arm to mortgage. Just filling up a 20 lb propane bottle is getting insane - over 20 bucks. Not only that but the new tanks are less than 20 lbs. They're scaled down to 8 kg which is 17.6 lbs. But the refills still get charged out at 20 lbs. I hear you on heating costs. Our house is heated by natural gas/forced air and typically on a cold month the fuel is around 200.00+ even though our house is tight too. Most of the heat loss is through the windows.

Greg Rogers

It's in the news- a propane shortage or something. But its never been a good deal. I too have a huge 300 psi natural gas transmission line 1/2 mile behind my house but can't have Natural gas...

Allan R

One of the other drawbacks of propane for vehicles is the liability of compressed gas. Most parking garages I know of won't allow propane vehicles in.

I didn't know that houses in the US used propane as a heat source. Live and learn.

Paladin31

Sure you "can" Greg, I recall seeing some type of cutting machine in the resto pics you recently posted......A little epoxy some high pressure tubing & Voila! Just remember to NOT create any sparks around that little nuclear furnace in waiting!
Bon Appetite

Macadoo

The story is that farmers had a record crop this year, but it was a wet crop and they used a lot of propane drying it out. hence the shortage. But if you ask me it's the speculators. I don't pretend to understand economics but supply and demand only works if there is a demand. Price yourself out and people will find alternatives.
So Paladin, what's this about epoxy and high pressure tubing? ;-)

Macadoo

Got that right! ProPAIN.

Greg Rogers

KaBOOM!!

Paladin31

I would venture to say that not only could I see your house from mine...but the ash from it would be in my yard<<<<

z11375ss

I'm still on the Prozac, but willing to try it.

Oldsmaniac

I heat with natural gas. Coldest months here in NJ will run me 800 for gas and electric. Have a bill here now for 530 and last month it was 450. My buddy heats his small house with propane at 3.40 a gallon...ouch!

sammy

I have a wood/oil furnace, a fireplace insert and a airtight wood stove that heats my home. I JUST put in propane heat into my shop. Today I got an email from the propane supplier apologizing for the jump in prices, "but there is nothing they could do."
I knew I should of put in an outdoor stove for the shop.
Hydro has doubled here in the last two years, up 45% over last months bill alone
All this is taking it's toll on the Olds budget
I will not be using the shop until this most recent cold snap has moved on...

RetroRanger

yeah I stopped using my propane fireplace a couple years ago. I called about my latest bill to complain they overcharged me. I called for their price per gallon was quoted a number had them delvier and was billed for close to 2x the quoted price per gallon. They said oh that price quote is if you use xxx gallons per year you only use xx gallons per year so you pay a higher price .....i couldnt fathom that so i use a woodstove, a pellet stove and oil. woods cheap but more work, pellets are not so expensive compared to oil or propane, oil costs the most but I use it the least but it is the easiest. between the three I can keep the house comfortable in any weather without killing the budget

rocketraider

From Reuters, with explanations that tell me it's being manipulated:

Go figure.

I'm on a municipally operated natural gas system, but I can only imagine what they'll do. The monthly utility bill has what they call a "therm factor" which is an additional surcharge and in colder weather it tends to go high. You may pay up to 180% of the standard per therm price.

hookem horns

Propane prices are up for the same reason (no reason) that gasoline goes up in the summer. You are probably too far north, but we swapped from propane to a heat pump when our old AC compressor died. Electric bills are higher in winter now but still lower overall and that was before the price jump. Wife does not really like it since the output is not as hot as gas fired systems, feels drafty/cooler at the same thermostat setting. Still a decent option for milder climates if NG not available

coldwar

Propane for practical purposes is a outgrowth and development of crude oil refining in to various products for direct consumption, and for industry. It is keyed to the same market index as gasoline hence the same market volatility. It takes a 500ft tower in the refining process to remove the propylene from the raw LP gas, which in itself is a profitable product of the process, in that form and as polypropylene. I will say the happiest day in my homeowner life was getting rid of LP as fuel, it wasn't anything so much with the fuel, it was dealing with the terrible companies serving as the provider. Rude, nasty indifferent people, dictatorial terms of business, 'take it or leave it' policies. It helps to learn something of the processes, knowledge is power in deciding what you see and hear from the media on the matter is BS and political positioning.

Kennybill

Where I live natural gas was not available. I had propane. I paid a lot of money to be cold. I read about an "aggregate" gas company and call them. A meeting at the township had decent attendance. I then got a card in the mail from a small privately owned gas company. They owned a transmission line 1000 feet from my property. Long story short, I got 14 people who said they wanted gas. The company ran a line and only 6 of us got gas. My tap in fees, $600, cost of line from road to house 265' @ $1800. That was less than a year of propane. House is a 1850 sq' ranch (built 1996). Now I'm on a budget $65 a month, heat/cook/hot water. I kept it at 70 day/67 night. I'm warm & happy. So do some research, there are small gas companies out there. The one I'm with has a few locations around the country. It is Northeast Ohio Natural Gas Company. This years plan is to run gas to my garages. Insulate, insulate and more insulate. Good luck, Ken

Professur

A large part of the price hikes is simply the dollar circling the drain. Inflation takes a logarithmically larger bite of your pie every year. For some things it's staved off for several years and then snaps back like a rubber band .. but so long as there's inflation ...

As for that wood stove, you really should get it set up. Having only one source of heat is never a good idea. I heated electrically ... until the Quebec Ice storm. Lots of people lost power ... I lost my entire plumbing. Had to replace every inch of copper, including some taps and the hot water tank. A couple of cords of wood kept sheltered doesn't go bad. Likewise, many heat methods have 'ideal' conditions. Your propane probably gets less and less efficient as you run it up. On colder days, leaving it set low and throwing a few logs on to make up the difference would probably come in a lot cheaper.

Jamesbo

I have propane and a wood stove to keep the area of my home I stay in comfortable. If you cut your own wood, you get worm twice. But the propane keeps my 100 year old farm house's pipes from freezing.

A few years ago a good friend of mine got " locked in" on a guaranteed pirce for the winter. Unfortunately, when the price jumped, the company refused to deliver at the "locked in price"

Lady72nRob71

Easy solution...
Buy cheap used wood stove and install inside.
Give out your mailing address out to every junk mailer and membership place you can find.
Install bigger mailbox.
Carry in free fuel from mailbox each day and feed woodstove for the night.
Profit!
Repeat the next day as needed.
Watch out for checks and or bills...


In all seriousness, I hope everyone can find affordable ways to keep warm this winter. It has been a cold one for sure.
It is sad that companies charge so much for a much needed resource.

radioburningchrome

My wife and I rent a 1k sq ft house built in 1955. Heat escapes through doors and windows. House is heated by natural gas (forced air) and electric. First year gas bill was $156 and electric was $200 for January alone.

Following year we put blankets over the windows (removed when guests come over) and put plastic on 6 out of 8 windows. Doors are closed to rooms at night (towels at floor to keep out drafts) and sheets are hung over the stairwell to second floor and at kitchen to rest of house.

Not pretty at all. This year with the cold our electric is about $130-140 and gas is $60-80. Cut costs in half.

nonhog

I just took money out of my retirement to pay for a heat pump as of now I am almost out of firewood and propane is about 3/$ gal.
Heat pump will pay for itself in no time. PNW where electric is cheap.
I will also add insulation to the attic and seal all the air leaks I can find.
Do yourself a favor and get an energy analysis report. Mine was $95.00
and avoiding the hard sell afterwards but what an eye opener. You wouldn't believe how much air leaks in (out) from your outlets, door jambs, light switches etc.
My wood stove is on its last leg so with my body aching more and more I might switch to pellets for the few real cold days the Seattle area gets.


Anyway, Propane. Looking forward to saying good riddance.

coppercutlass

I think hank hill is on propane. Lol sorry the name of the thread is open to interpretation .

oldcutlass

I think Texas officially declared a propane emergency, supplies are low.

z11375ss

I have a Defiant Encore in my garage. It heats 1700 square feet. My garage isn't nearly that big. I start the fire, go in the house and come out in a half hour to 70 degrees. Works for me. Cast iron stoves aren't cheap though! I really like it.

nsnarsk65cutlass

I'm stuck here using propane for water and stove, tried the furnace and watched the level gauge drop like a dead fly,so my only heat is an old wood stove and electric blankets,i'm glad the winters ain't that bad here in northern Ca.btw 2 months ago it was 2.50 a gallon,it seems they always come to top off in the winter months even if it's not needed.

aussie oldsmobile 98

gee , bit tuff .. we dont have that problem a lots of cars here especially taxis run lpg .in oz lpg is about 89cents per ltr...it was about 65 cents say 6months ago , i have 3 of my v8 gm cars running on lpg , on one of my "holdens" it has a worked 5ltr motor built for lpg 10.5 comp, stainless valves , forged pistons etcetc ...runs straight lpg works and runns sensational , my newish holden statesman (like a luxury caddy") it runs a factory v6 with a supercharger on it , it runs "dual fuel" i had it moded to run direct injected lpg after the supercharger , no hassel drives great and is more responsive /revs quiker than running the car on unleaded e10 crap.......lpg is good

jaunty75

Article about this very subject in the 1/23/14 issue of USA Today.


Frigid temperatures heat up home utility bills

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...bills/4777795/

76olds

We run on 40 proof here, burn a bit of wood, grass, oil !!! Always a shortage of that here.

classicmuscle442

Propane just delivered yesterday $2.80 gallon, have ground source heat pump but have to switch to propane furnace below 15 degrees. Can't beat heat pumps 300% effiency but this winter has been a whole lot colder.

Red Delta

I run nat gas for my house and it's cheaper than dirt. I have a 2800 sq ft house that was built in 1885 and has more drafts than NASCAR. The gas payments are averaged out over the year and I pay $135 a month.

On the other hand gas was expensive when I first moved here 8 years ago and the monthly's were $250.

cutlassgal

We got rid of propane and hooked up to natural gas a year ago. Sure glad we did!! Propane prices were killing us! At least now we have a managable monthly gas bill instead of that huge pay all at once propane bill. That sucked. Good luck to you!

1970cs

O.K.I will weigh in here, I am running natural gas with a couple of portable ceramic heaters. Ranch built in 1947 new doors and newer non high efficency furnace (natural gas) original windows covered with the clear plastic on west and south and only have 1 window to the north.

My bills are running for both gas and electric combined is $125.00/ month through the whole year.
It is a smaller house but one of the portables is in the garage keeping the pet bunny warm and kinda nice that if have a project it's decent enough for a flannel shirt and the tools are not ice cold either.

The biggest bite in the rear is if you read through the bill and the surchages, delivery fees, excise taxes, local, state, federal, recoupe fees, recovery charges
no one goes cold charge (helping others that can't afford) green energy technology fees and goes on and on! This equates for half of what my actual bill is.

Pat

Allan R

This ^^^^^!!

Macadoo

I say heck with them. This is what I spent my weekend doing. It's not plumbed into the gas furnace plenum yet but it's cooking the basement real nice and should keep the pipes from freezing.

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It was work getting it ready but we're looking at 12 below tomorrow night with 50 mph wind gusts. A weekend well spent I think.

Macadoo

FYI, those are mostly speaker and cat5 wires and that receptacle is defunct. I know how observant you folks are ;-)

Paladin31

Hey Mac, if you have the install manuals for that please double check the venting requirements for the wood burner, appears you have single wall pipe. Normally should be 24 gauge black connector, and S/S class A pipe for venting as you have a lot of dirty combustion byproducts going out. They can build up and cause creosote problems, don't ask me how I know this. Just want you & yours safe buddy.

Railguy

I have a propane fireplace I think the last time I got propane it was about $.59 but I own my tank and take it to get it filled.I got feed up with the propane co.ripping me off.
railguy

jaunty75

More on this from today (1/26).



Prolonged cold blast worsens propane shortage across Midwest

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014...s-midwest?lite