Joffroi

Hi all,

So I recently picked up a 68 442 convertible. I knew it had some rust issues. It had a section in the front of the frame that went through and called around a few shops and sent them pictures and they said it was a fairly easy fix. Well, once I got the car I started digging around more like everyone says, there is almost more rust then you first expect. I found an even larger chunk eaten away at the frame.

Below are pictures of both areas and I wanted to get your opinion on if you think its repairable or should I start keeping my eyes open for a donor frame.

This is the bad spot right behind the front, driver's side. Shop said it shouldn't be that bad to fix. I also have a portion of a donor frame for this section.
E9gd7eS.jpg

This was the surprise area. This is a little behind the driver's side seat. The quality isn't the best due to having to crawl underneath their with my phone.
NID3SRw.jpg

Oldsmaniac

Picture 1 not so scary, picture 2 very scary. Trouble is when you start to look for good metal to weld to usually the damage ends up being a LOT more. If a better frame can be had go for it, if not you are stuck with trying to fix yours.

Nilsson

Steering box area yes, under the seat not sure about that.

redoldsman

I think you need a frame and it will have to be a convertible frame.

oldcutlass

I think what your going to have to do is pull the body off the frame and inspect the whole thing. Like everyone said the first picture is ok the second one starts to get scary. One spot leads to others.

Octania

the BEST and probably cheapest fix will be a good frame

it DOES NOT have to be a convert frame (when you get it), but if it isn't you will have to remove the box sections from the convert frame and weld them onto the other frame. I did this a while back. Pretty easy. Still had to fab a couple patches at the ends where the metal was just missing from the convert boxing pcs. Long welds. Worked out fine. Measure, measure, measure. Write down the crucial measurements. Have the crossmember in place while welding.

TK-65

From the looks of it the body is holding the frame together.

Professur

Everything is fixable if you're willing to pay an expert enough money. The real question is ... would it be cheaper to have that same expert weld up a brand spanking new frame. That answer is ... probably.

vette442

I'd definitely go with a new frame - even if you fix that one, it will have hidden thin spots and lots of pitting. In the midwest, you should be able to find a nice dry one without too much trouble within a reasonable distance.
Terry

Joffroi

Any A-body convertible frame from 68-72 should do correct?

costpenn

X2. It will ultimately cost you way more to correctly fix the old one than to replace it.

chadman

It's junk. Replace it.

sicky olds

Yes it should be, if you do cross company (Chevelle, GTO, Skylarck, etc.) might need to adjust where the motor mounts would be installed.

jag1886

Just curious, if the frame is that bad isn't the body just as bad?

2blu442

If you have the skills or know someone who does, you could also take the front 2/3 of a Vista Cruiser frame and splice on the rear portion from a hardtop. The Vista's had fully boxed frames just as the convertibles, but the side rails are longer than you need and the portion behind the rear axle would need to be changed. Just one more option if you can't find a good convertible frame at a reasonable price.


John

Joffroi

I'm not going to try to lie to myself or you guys. The body isn't great either. Did I bight off more then I can chew with this car... probably. The important thing to me was that in its current state it was drivable and I could still have fun with it. It doesn't look horrible from about 30 feet away . Safety is my biggest concern and I just want to do what I can to ensure it doesn't fall into two when I'm driving it.

There is definitely going to be adjustment going from my restored 72 Cutlass Supreme to a project again.

Z9eIgp8.jpg

lshlsh2

It is a long slow slog. Take it one small step at a time. The first thing I did with mine was hang a sign in my garage " This project is currently 3 years ahead of schedule" When I get it done it will still be 3 years ahead of schedule. Keeps me from getting to down with lack of funds from daughter in college and her wedding next year.

Larry

Professur

I've worked on worse. I'll tell you what I tell everyone. A part time restore will take a minimum of 4 years, at least $10k, and half your soul. If anyone tells you otherwise, they're lying or they've never done it. Do yourself a favour and get yourself a notebook and write down everything ... everything you see that needs done, in detail, everything you've done, every penny you spent, but more importantly, everything you feel. You'd be surprised and shocked at the gambit of emotions you'll deal with in the course of a project like this .... and being able to go back and refresh the good times is a real boon when you hit the wall (and you will, often). There will be days when you feel like you've accomplished nothing ... days when you'll think you're actually going backwards (today's find of the rotten frame for example). Get a digital camera and use that too ... they've all got video capacity now ... a video blog really works to help pull you through.


I have just one little piece of advice to share on that actual work .... don't become hidebound. I blew half a week trying to form one compound curve to rebuild a rotten spot on the firewall of a Sonoma .... pointlessly. I got so wrapped up trying to do it, I completely blanked on the fact that that piece is covered by the heater blower and would never ever be seen by anyone, ever. Target fixation ... it's a killer. Also, we all want to be the hero, the guy that did it all .... it's stupid. That's a bitter pill to swallow, but let's face it .... someone who does it every day is going to have made all the mistakes and he'll do it quicker, better, and frequently cheaper in the long run. Don't be shy about looking for expert opinions and options.


As Red Green made famous ... I'm pulling for ya ... we're all in this together.

Sampson

Like others have said the best way to tell at this point is to pull the body off and inspect the frame well. My guess is that it still has some surprises to reveal. One thing is for sure it probably is not safe like it is. Best thing to do is dive in and get after it. The more thought you put into this one the bigger the problem becomes.

barnfind

By the looks of what you have Id get a replacement frame, its needs to be rock solid if you plan on playing later on, better safe than sorry...

MDchanic

I'm amazed that the body looks that good, but the frame looks that bad. Definitely replace it - there's nothing left there to fix.

- Eric

redoldsman

As rusty as the frame looks I am surprised you can open the doors since it is a convertible. I would not drive this car because I don't think it is safe from what I can see.

nsnarsk65cutlass

I agree with all the other posts replace it,from those pictures not much there to work with.Nick

69442C

The frame is junk and I wouldn't waste any money on it. I'd also recommend using a HT frame converted to a conv frame using your existing side rail boxing pieces.

But before going too far, I would suggest you put the car up on jack stands and get under it to do an honest assessment of what you have. Careful where you place the stands so the frame doesn't collapse and have the car come down on you. You already know the frame will need to be replaced and you can assume some or all of the body bolts will likely break trying to remove them. If the floor pans are bad and if the lower cowl looks bad, and other panels look bad, you need to determine roughly what those repairs would cost and in your mind how much you want to spend on the car. If it needs more than you are willing to put into it, then you might want to sell it for what you can and move on to another project. I know you have said this is the exact car you wanted but don't let that cloud your judgment with a car that needs a lot of work and money to fix it.

Joffroi

I really appreciate all the input you all have provided. Safety is definitely going to be my highest priority. The car will essentially be eye candy in my garage until I get this frame situation resolved.

I'd be lying if I wasn't a little sick to my stomach when I found the new section of frame rust. I definitely had the "what did I just buy and do I need to get rid of it already" thoughts. I think I am going to go through with it on this car though. I rarely see 68 442 convertibles in conditionals I could actually afford. Maybe my emotions are getting the best of me. I'll just take it step by step and see where it goes. This is my dream car and I'm looking forward to see what can come out of this. I wouldn't be able to put a price on it if I'm driving it with the top down with my wife and kids 10 years from now.

66400

I'd keep the car as a treasure trove of parts for a better 68 convert that you could build. It's not unheard of to find a builder car less the drivetrain, interior and so forth, park the side by side and go to work!

Henry

Octania

I revived one much worse than that a while back. Gussied up '69 Cutlass convert sold thru epay to a friend. Looked OK at first glance.

Needed a frame- I had a spare, we moved the boxing parts to the good frame. Needed entire floor pan- there was little holding the seats in, frankly. I had a spare factory one in good shape from a car with no title. We did all the work ourselves with the little off-brand wire feed welder. Mitaswelled it into a 4-speed too. Later, a 425 disguised as a 350. There were a few panels in the body I had to fabricate. underside, behind rear seat- unseen parts, so I just made do with some sheetmetal patches. For a real 442, it'll be more nearly worth it. Just don't plan on making money, do it for the joy of having that car.

Oldsmaniac

So, did the seller offer any info on the condition of the frame before you bought it? This is where the idea "Let the buyer beware comes into play." If the seller was not up front about it he was deceptive for sure.

drop top olds

I can locate a 68-72 hardtop frame (roller) but I won't be able to get it until end of April. It is in storage w/ sale pending to my son. If you are in a hurry can probably find one quicker. This frame is in Arkansas.

Joffroi

Overall the seller seemed great actually. He was selling the car for his dad who hasn't really touched in in several years. He definitely disclosed that it was rusty. I honestly just think he didn't know the rust was that bad on the frame. He seemed legitimately shocked when we found the front rust was able to negotiate a good bit on the price of the car as a result of it.

Thanks for the info, I'm actually not in a rush. I have a few other things I need to take care of before I can plunge into my frame journey.

OLDSRI

Take a look at my thread I am going through the same thing. I knew my frame had issues, but soon as the body was lifted I could see the real extent of the frame.

My frame was scary!

Good Luck...

69442C

Take a look at the 68 conv this person just acquired and is selling. To me, this would be your best avenue for building the 68 442, 4 speed conv you want. The 68 conv being offered looks very solid and assuming it is, would save you a ton of money in the long run. It is a stick car too although I don't know if it is a 442 or not. If it was, then to me, your car would be the donor car for parts to restore this one. Either way, with this car and yours, you would be in pretty good shape and you would spend less in the long run.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...more-cars.html

oldcutlass

I'm going to second the above suggestion if the frame and body are in good shape. He may work with you a little on the price.

Joffroi

Thanks for the link. Will follow up.

507OLDS

It's a convertible.It needs a good frame.I am pretty sure that when you split the body from the frame,you will find even more.If you try to weld to a frame like that,you will likely just start blowing through it. Not worth the headache. Find a nice frame from a 68-72 2-door hardtop or convertible.If it is a hardtop,transfer your boxed sections. Are they still good? An ElCamino frame will also work,but there is a section of the open frame,behind the rear axle,that needs to be shortened.The rest is correct.

caddy

Convertible Frames

1971
Frame
Oldsmobile F85 Cutlass 030181$400Bud's Salvage USA-OK(Aline) E-mail 1-800-375-2837 1-580-463-2424378

1971
Frame
Oldsmobile F85 Cutlass 050136$400Bud's Salvage USA-OK(Aline) E-mail 1-800-375-2837 1-580-463-2424378

1972 Frame
Oldsmobile F85 Cutlass 990215$400Bud's Salvage USA-OK(Aline) E-mail 1-800-375-2837 1-580-463-2424378

66400

Wheelbase is longer on the 68-72 elCamino frame than the 2dr cars so it will also need to be cut down between the wheelbase to work.

Henry

507OLDS

I don't know how the rumor started that the Elky wheelbase is longer,but it is not.I've already swapped a few. They also had an artucle in Car Craft about 8 years ago,showing where to shorten the rear rails.That is all that is needed.
The Monte Carlo frames are different.The front frame horns are stretched farther.They will not work.

69442C

Correct. The 69-72 Grand Prix frames, which are basically the same as the MC, were factory boxed like a convertible frame and those boxing pieces can be used on an A body frame to convert a HT frame into a convertible frame. For some reason the MC frames were not boxed, at least none that I have ever seen.

66400

It's not a rumor. It's a fact!

68-72 elCaminos have a 116 inch wheel base, 68-72 A body 2drs have a 112 inch wheelbase.

CarCraft article was dealing with 64-67 elco frames, all 64-67 GM A bodies used the same wheel base(except glass roof SW). For this year grouping it's a matter of shortening the rear most section behind the rear axle.

To alter a 68-72 elco frame for use on a 68-72 A body convert 4 inches will have to be cut from the mid section of the frame in addition to shortening the rear most section of the frame.

Earlier today I measure a 68-72 el Camino rocker panel and it's about 4 inches longer than a 68-72 2dr A body car.


Henry