Ok, so there is a 1966 Starfire Hrdtp for sale in my area, on a popular website that sells stuff

The guy selling it says it has no title or keys, but he's selling it as a left over item from a friends estate that recently passed away (that he was executor of). He wants $2500.

The car looks very solid but no knowledge of operation. He said he found the build sheet when removing rear seat to see what's in the trunk, (again no keys...)

Obviously I will try to turn engine over to see if it is free & I have family in the PD that can run the VIN to make sure it's not hot. But the fact that there is no title or keys bugs me... even with a bill of sale from the guy I buy it from.

In ILL you have to get a bonded title and wait 3 yrs to see if the car gets claimed by rightful owner, then the car is theirs! If no one claims it after 3 yrs then the state sends me a title.

This seems like it is TOO risky for me, or that this can be a Craigslist scam. Plus then I can't really do much to the car for 3 yrs without risk of what I put into it becoming a greater loss if its claimed by someone else. Or if I wanna try and flip it, I really can't. Seems like a much cheaper price is in line or ....what?

This is where I would like advise, or opinions. Any thoughts?

 

First I'd get the VIN and see if you can run the numbers with the DOT or the Po-lease.
Also, it would seem to me that as the executor of the estate, he should be able to come up with a good registration.

 

I agree with Jaybird. If this car was part of someone's estate, and that person had lost the title earlier in their lives, it ought to be easy enough to get a new title made and not have to go through this three-year wait. I would ask the seller to look into this.

Asking you to buy a car that you can't even be sure will be yours is asking a lot. In fact, he may not legally be ABLE to sell the car if he can't prove that it's "his" to sell. I put the "his" in quote because it's his in the sense that he's in charge of the estate of which it is a part, and thus, if things are proper, he should be able to legally sell it. If this is true, and if he doesn't have a title, he should be able to get a title.

Also, for a few dollars, he should have a locksmith come over and create new keys for the car. Again, that's not too much to ask for a car he wants $2500 for.

 

If the car actually belonged to the deceased, and if the guy selling it IS the exectutor of the estate, he should have not one single problem with presenting a death certificate, and applying for and getting a clear replacement title at the DMV. This should be done BEFORE any sale, in my opinion.

 

As the others said above, make the seller aquire a title before any cash changes hands! He can file for a lost title! The keys are not a big issue!

 

Saw the car today, the person who is selling it explains that the car came from NC or such, family friend of the deceased sold car to his friend w/o title, then before title was applied for, his friend died. So now the seller has "tried" to contact said family friend and they can't find the title, keys etc. Doesn't sound like either party wants to go through the trouble to get a new title. So it sounds a bit fishy.

I just got the V.I.N. to a family member who is a chief of police and he's checking on it for me. I'm on the fence because the car is a true barn find/survivor and has unique options & color scheme...Sierra Mist w/Bronze interior. A Gold car with basicly burgandy interior, column shift w/strato bucket/bench. Original paint and all trim there including wheel covers and even the carpet and headliner is intact.

It's too nice to part out and someone will buy this and go thru the trouble if all is legit... but thats the point, IF IT'S Legit!

 

Keep in mind that some states did not issue titles, but NC most certainly does. NC also requires the title to be notarized any time a vehicle changes hands. My pickup and wagon both came out of NC and title transfer by the seller had to be notarized before I left the state with them, never mind VA does not require notary. So if the NC title was ever transferred over, there is a record in Raleigh where it was returned. If it never was transferred, ugh.

Next obstacle will be getting NC (or about any other state) to do a title search on something that old. Lot of them will tell you up front they don't have records that far back. They do, it's just knowing how to get them to dig them up. Your COP family member may be able to pressure NCDMV to do it.

But without a clear title, I would be very wary esp if IL takes three years to verify and issue a clear title.

 

Completely forgot about the car itself- that's a pretty rare color combo. The Strato-Bench in Starfire was available only in black, parchment and bronze, and you generally saw the bronze in white, black, red or bronze cars though it works with Sierra, Almond Beige, Burgundy Mist and Silver Mist.

If car is as complete as you say, it would be a shame to let lack of a title stop someone from getting it.

 

I know but what good is it if I can't title the car? The seller is offering to give a bill of sale and if the VIN comes up clear great but that still doesn't mean IL is gonna just issue out a title. I'm gonna stop in at the DMV tomorrow after work and ask some questions.

 

Sounds like too good a car to pass up, but also sounds very fishy.

I'd say, check the VIN to be sure it's clean, if it is, then buy the car, then slowly work it through one or more states that are less "picky," finally registering it in your own.

You'd be surprised how easy it is to "clean up" a title by registering in certain states, then sending it back to your own - all you need is a buddy or family member living there to help you out.
Some states are very unreasonable in their documentation demands (NJ, for instance), but there are others that are not.

- Eric

 

Here are a few pics I just aquired...

 

I'm still not connecting all the relationships here, not that it matters.

This is the way I read it.

A guy died (dead guy A). A friend (friend A) of dead guy A's family sold the car, without title, to HIS friend (friend B). But friend B died, too (thus becoming dead guy B), and before he could get the title in his name. But YOUR friend is friend C and is not the friend of this family (friend A) who originally tried to sell the car. Have I got this right?

Whatever the relations, the question remains, how did friend A have the authority to sell the car to friend B in the first place? He was not the executor of the estate, apparently. It wasn't his car to begin with, right?

It belonged to the first dead guy (dead guy A), and with him dead, the car becomes part of his estate and is disposed of either according to his will, if he has one and if it's mentioned in the will, or possibly by selling it off to pay debts or split the proceeds among the heirs or whatever.


Time to go to bed.


Ooops. Too late. Have to go to work instead.

 

Buy it for a little as you can and part it. Title problem solved. Seriously, its kinda rough looking, the mechanical condition is unknown, and there's no clear title and you have to take on faith the story you were given is true. Even if it is, and the seller's intentions are honest, the family of the previous rightful owner (who is now aware that the car is being sold since they were asked to look for the title) could still start trouble if they think it can net them $$. Run away.

 

The Pics really don't do it justice, it is SOLID as a rock and all there. Parting it would just be a shame. It's probably more restorable than my 65 convertible.

I'm trying to get other options for titling this car arranged as well, but by the time that happens, she may be gone already (if not already so)

 

I say if you can get it for $2000 or less, even without a title, you'll be okay, even if you have to part it to make your money back. Solid body panels can be removed & sold for bank, the side trim is worth a lot if it's not pitted, and hell, I'd love to have the red interior for mine! Too bad it's not buckets for my tastes though. The 425 & switch-pitch are probably only worth $500-$700 in today's market from what I'm seeing (correct me if I'm off here anyone?) Putting all the prep work & paint on this car by a body shop will probably run you at LEAST $5000, providing there's minimal body work needed. From the surface rust though, I bet the body needs work around the front & rear glass. Won't know for sure til the glass is out & the body being done.

I know it's probably a better project than a slice & dice, but keep in mind, that REALLY nice original ones have been advertised out of cali in the last year for $7000-$8000. (I know of at least 4 for sure in that price range) They sat there for months without buyers. I conversed with most of the sellers to get a feel for the cars & the market, as I've always wanted another '66.

I've seen a few restored ones that claim to have $20-30K in the restoration for sale, and the resale price on those started over 20K dropped into the $10-12K range and those are still not selling from what I have seen in the last year.

If you want to buy it & restore it for yourself, that's totally understandable, just realize the market for these cars is VERY narrow, and they do not command anywhere near the price the 442's do, no matter what condition they are in. Fortunate for buyers if you want one. Unfortunate for anyone restoring one expecting to make some cash.

Just my 2cents on what I have gone through in the last year while searching for mine.

-Jeff

 

There are places that charge up to 1000 dollars to get you a title. Broadway is one such company. While I have never used one it may be an option. And I am going thru the same thing now. Guy has a 40 Olds coupe with no title. He is in charge of the woman's estate who owned the car. No title only original bill of sale with no-ones name on it that means anything. I offered him 1000 dollars less for the car unless he can come up with a NJ title. I have been down this road before and it is not a fun ride....

 

About the only thing you could do is "wash" the car through a state that doesn't use titles for old cars. Like Georgia. I think this was mentioned before.

"Sell" the car to a friend in such a state, he registers it in his name. He won't get a title. Then the friend "sells" it back to you, with a bill of sale with his name on it, and you take that to your DMV and apply for a title in your name.

The only hitch is without a title you have to have the car there for them to verify the VIN that is on the bill of sale. If you can't bring it with you then the sherriff can come out and verify it fill out a form. Sounds complicated but not too bad.


Mike

 

FYI, a lot of state motor vehicle agencies are getting savvy about those title service companies. It likely will NOT work in NJ for example (where I am from). The guy who runs (or at least used to run) Broadway Title in particular got into a lot of trouble a few years back when it was discovered that he was supplying 1960s titles to guys bulding kit-car Cobras and the like. On top of that, people were putting down very low numbers under "amount paid" , thus bypassing the payment of fair taxes; all of this has resulted in DMVs all over being wary when they see someone with paperwork from these outfits.

Such companies will also not address the issue of whether a car is stolen or if legitimate ownership is in dispute. Just sayin.

 

I sorry I am of the mind NO TITLE NO SALE I don't care how great a deal I might miss out on. (parts cars are different story)

Larry

 

....2 1/2 years later...still regretting not grabbing this. I wonder if it's still out there somewhere...