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That particular car was displayed pretty much across from us at November 2021 MCACN. It's a beautiful car I'd be proud to own. Unfortunately not too likely. That was be an all time high for a coupe?
I'm not one that thinks high prices helps a car community; I think it only benefits those who do this for an investment, and that ain't me. I'd rather them be accessible to more people.
That being said, that's a very nice car and should pull in peak dollar of anything in the lineup. I think we are in for a massive market correction here soon.
I'm not one that thinks high prices helps a car community; I think it only benefits those who do this for an investment, and that ain't me. I'd rather them be accessible to more people.
The "accessible to more people" isn't the problem. The problem is that this is another great car that will never be driven other than off and back on the trailer. To quote American Graffiti, what a waste of machinery.
The "accessible to more people" isn't the problem. The problem is that this is another great car that will never be driven other than off and back on the trailer. To quote American Graffiti, what a waste of machinery.
Correct. These cars will NEVER be driven on the street. They will go from garage to trailer, to auction, to trailer, to garage, back to trailer, auction, rinse and repeat. Basically what has happened is millionaires buy these cars and use them as garage art and call over their friends to show off their new garage art. Once they get bored with looking it, they take it back to auction to sell and buy something else to have new garage art to look at.
They are really NOT car enthusiasts in the real sense. They will never work on the cars, never drive the cars, and never know what it's like to cruise these cars and wrench on them to keep them running. They are just car snobs and have destroyed our hobby and ability for others to afford these cars at reasonable prices.
That's my take on it. I don't like it but that is what the classic muscle car hobby has become.
IN ADDITION: It has already been shown that there is a huge amount of MONEY LAUNDERING going on with these auctions. People trying to wash dirty money end up buying and selling these cars at Mecum and BJ. It's become what casinos have been, a place to launder illegally derived money.
Looking at pics of that 1970 Olds 442 W-30 convertible. Look at the side stripes and they are painted incorrectly. The quarter panel and fender have the stripes painted incorrectly as they are going in the up direction instead of staying horizontal. For a $154k car, that would be unacceptable.
Correct. These cars will NEVER be driven on the street. They will go from garage to trailer, to auction, to trailer, to garage, back to trailer, auction, rinse and repeat. Basically what has happened is millionaires buy these cars and use them as garage art and call over their friends to show off their new garage art. Once they get bored with looking it, they take it back to auction to sell and buy something else to have new garage art to look at.
They are really NOT car enthusiasts in the real sense. They will never work on the cars, never drive the cars, and never know what it's like to cruise these cars and wrench on them to keep them running. They are just car snobs and have destroyed our hobby and ability for others to afford these cars at reasonable prices.
That's my take on it. I don't like it but that is what the classic muscle car hobby has become.
IN ADDITION: It has already been shown that there is a huge amount of MONEY LAUNDERING going on with these auctions. People trying to wash dirty money end up buying and selling these cars at Mecum and BJ. It's become what casinos have been, a place to launder illegally derived money.
Not mad, more disappointed for the future generation. I already have my classic muscle car so I don't care to own any others. It's driven thousands of miles per year and it's fast and looks good.
The real car guys I hang out with, they make fun and hate the snob purists who have made the hobby a snobby rich mans club. It is what it is but we don't respect those rich car snobs and if they want to throw down, we will mop the floor with them and their cars. Most are overweight and out of shape and they don't know how to drive their art cars, let alone even drive their cars as they are trailer queens. Probably don't even have any engine oil in the crankcase. We don't sit on lawnchairs with huge bellies and talk about the good old days and the numbers matching garage and trailer queen we own. We cruise and enjoy our cars and life by driving our cars on a weekly basis.
It's like having a beautiful wife and not ever enjoying her beauty. That's the car snob purists in a nutshell. They have a thing of mechanical beauty but don't or probably can't enjoy their car due to their car erectile dysfunction they have.
I have invested heavy 6 figures into my 70-442 Vert 4 speed. I have owned it over 15 yrs and drive it about 175 miles per yr. Not much driving for sure (I am not retired, so work tends to limit free time), but when I do drive it, I always put it through some heavy paces. I don't plan on selling the car for many, many years. But when I do, I am guessing I'll be pleased with the sell price. No idea why anyone would not wish for any owned asset to not grow as high as possible in value (coin collecting is a hobby and I imagine they love coins, but hope they grow in value). Now, if I had to purchase this same car now, yeah that would be costly and my loss (but I would not choose to gripe about it, why would anyone care). I am working on the assumption that the guys that don't wish to see the higher end cars dramatically continue to grow in value are the same ones that have not invested in said cars. Not to mention most cars usually cost about $125K+ today to actually restore (unless you have great skill, time and the required tools), so when somebody does sell one for 6 figures, they are fortunate to break even. But, they do ensure that theses restored cars live on for another 50 yrs for others to admire, even if it is seldom seen most days.
Yea, I think you hit the nail on the head. I was fortunate enough to have had one but then sold it. Unfortunately, the current price for re-entry far exceeds what I would pay to have another. This is due more to them being treated as investments than cars. This is what turns most folks off. I get it though…restoration shops, suppliers, etc…. All want their share. I remember when a nice paint/body resto was $10-15k, and it really wasn’t that long ago.
I still daily my 79 Trans Am, and hit a deer in it a few years ago on my way to work. Something like this would be appalling to folks with trailer queens but it was repairable, and driving it has enabled me to enjoy putting nearly 100k miles on it.
Congrats for what? Selling and buying an over priced trailer queen? For destroying the classic muscle car hobby to the future generations?
Congratulate the child who just finished their round of chemo as they fight for the lives to beat cancer. Congratulate the first responder who risks their life to save and help others.
Congratulate a rich snob for selling and buying a $300k or $150k car so they can brag to their friends as it sits inside a garage as car art?
They did NOTHING to better human kind except spend huge money on something they will never even use. Do you congratulate Jeff Bezos for buying another yacht?
Correct. These cars will NEVER be driven on the street. They will go from garage to trailer, to auction, to trailer, to garage, back to trailer, auction, rinse and repeat. Basically what has happened is millionaires buy these cars and use them as garage art and call over their friends to show off their new garage art. Once they get bored with looking it, they take it back to auction to sell and buy something else to have new garage art to look at.
They are really NOT car enthusiasts in the real sense. They will never work on the cars, never drive the cars, and never know what it's like to cruise these cars and wrench on them to keep them running. They are just car snobs and have destroyed our hobby and ability for others to afford these cars at reasonable prices.
That's my take on it. I don't like it but that is what the classic muscle car hobby has become.
IN ADDITION: It has already been shown that there is a huge amount of MONEY LAUNDERING going on with these auctions. People trying to wash dirty money end up buying and selling these cars at Mecum and BJ. It's become what casinos have been, a place to launder illegally derived money.
i have a friend who is big into old square body trucks. He told me a story about selling his parents 58 (I think) Bonneville convertible. The had both died a few years before, they had several cars like this, he kept a few but didn’t have room for all of them. It was a nice looking car, basically something you could just drive and enjoy. It had a probably 30 year old paint job, it had some flaws but overall a nice car.
Guy calls, says he collect old GM convertibles and was interested in the car. Said he was coming the next morning to look at it, and if it was as described he would buy it. I need to state that at the time central Indiana was in the middle of a huge snowstorm, lots of drifting snow, lots of wind, and cold.
Next morning, the guy shows up with another guy. My friend says he looked at the car for all of 10 minutes, started it up, moved it 30 feet in his pole barn, and says he will take it. My friend say how are you getting it home? Guy says it runs and drives right??? My friend says yes, but we are out in the country, 10 miles northeast of nowhere. He said once it’s paid for, it’s technically his car, at the same time he didn’t really want to see it in the snow. Guy agrees, and left a $1000 deposit (all in $20s).
Next day, guy shows up with a truck and trailer. Once again, the guy really shows no real interest in the car. He hand my friend a bank money bag, inside is the remaining $24000, once again in $20s!!!! Needless to say, it takes a while to count all the cash.
Once the money was settled, they sign the title. My friend says he has a few plastic milk crates with spare parts that goes with the car. Once again, the buyer just really isn’t too bad interested in that stuff. My friend says you might as well take them. The reluctantly agrees, then places the milk crates ON THE HOOD OF THE CAR!!!!
Clearly, these are not the actions of a classic car enthusiast. A real car fanatic will spend more than a few minutes looking over a car, almost any car fan wont want to drive a classic in snow and salt, and anyone who has the slightest interest in cars of any kind wont place heavy thing directly on paint!!!
My friend wasn’t real happy about the entire process. Obviously, he was glad to get the asking price, but he said he was kinda worried about the money. He made dozens of small deposits in his bank over many months, he was worried about raising possible suspicion making one large deposit, and the possibility of questionable origins of the cash.
One final point of interest: the guy always called on a cell phone with a Colorado area code. Colorado is a weed friendly state, Indiana isn’t.
Ex-banker here. I have a very sharp friend who is of the view that money laundering on an international scale is underneath a great many real estate transactions in the US (and Canada too).
Internationally if you live in a country with a 1 party government and you are rich, one smart move to make is get some assets offshore (i.e. in the US, UK, or Canada, for example), then if one day you run afoul of your government, you have another place to go with money there. The key thing is to have an offshore, fairly non-volatile store of value (like land or on smaller scale, car(s)).
Russians move money and children into the UK. Chinese (both Hong Kongers & Mainlanders) send $ and kids to the US, Canada, Singapore, Australia & New Zealand. Guess what happens when wealthy new arrivals begin looking for a place for their kids to live? House prices go up. But now, the foreign nationals have sequestered assets offshore from their home country, out of reach of their tax services. And possibly hidden from them…
Realtors help with these transactions because their compensation is tied to the home sales prices. They have no big incentive to look too closely about source of wealth which cause high value home sales. Banks are required to know source of wealth because of drug dealers and politically tied (oligarchs, this year) rich people. The Feds don’t want banks working with listed bad guys. These days banks hate someone they don’t know walking in with a bunch of cash because it’s such a regulatory hassle to deal with. Like people in the marijuana business.
Domestically, Marijuana dealers/growers and related businesses cannot use the federal banking system legally (yet). So they have to find ways to diversify and transform their gains into things that can be entered into the banking system. Cars and other forms of property are 1 way to do this.
I’d rather have our old cars in use, on the streets, as cars are intended, but money has ways of unexpectedly creeping into places.
Was watching Mecum auctions last couple of days, the laundering aspect goes a long way, in combination with inflation, and a set of old guys with more money than time to explaining the nutty prices I was seeing.
Congrats for what? Selling and buying an over priced trailer queen? For destroying the classic muscle car hobby to the future generations?
Congratulate the child who just finished their round of chemo as they fight for the lives to beat cancer. Congratulate the first responder who risks their life to save and help others.
Congratulate a rich snob for selling and buying a $300k or $150k car so they can brag to their friends as it sits inside a garage as car art?
They did NOTHING to better human kind except spend huge money on something they will never even use. Do you congratulate Jeff Bezos for buying another yacht?
And how exactly does this “destroy the classic muscle car hobby?”
Last edited by WTHIRTY1; May 24, 2022 at 07:29 AM.
And how exactly does this “destroy the classic muscle car hobby?”
I've touched on this in my above posts, so I am not going to repeat all of that.I pretty much explained my position in the above posts on how and why it is destroying the muscle car hobby.
Ex-banker here. I have a very sharp friend who is of the view that money laundering on an international scale is underneath a great many real estate transactions in the US (and Canada too).
I’d rather have our old cars in use, on the streets, as cars are intended, but money has ways of unexpectedly creeping into places.
Was watching Mecum auctions last couple of days, the laundering aspect goes a long way, in combination with inflation, and a set of old guys with more money than time to explaining the nutty prices I was seeing.
My $.02 (well, o.k. $.04 these days…)
Chris
Thanks for the insight ! I found it fitting that Barrett-Jackson has a private helicopter pad on site on some of its auction sites and the private jets are coming and going all day from the local airport to the BJ & Mecum auctions. Just shows you who is buying and selling these cars, like you mentioned in your post.
Thanks for the insight ! I found it fitting that Barrett-Jackson has a private helicopter pad on site on some of its auction sites and the private jets are coming and going all day from the local airport to the BJ & Mecum auctions. Just shows you who is buying and selling these cars, like you mentioned in your post.
I only hope that when the time comes when I must sell my W30 that someone swoops into town via their private helicopter or private jet and showers me with Benjamins!
I hope no1oldsfan is not sick. He is usually the first one to add comments to the Mecum & BJ sale threads. It seems strange he's not posted yet!
Ha ha ha. Thanks for noticing. Of course I am right here.
The thing with the 300k car is that there was obviously more than one person chasing it for huge money. I have a really hard time believing that. I believe that shill bidding happens often.
The 154k car? Nobody brought up that it is a supposed factory W-30 four speed but has power brakes.
I agree with as so many said already. What is the point? You spend that kind of cash you guarantee there will be no running those cars thru gears even half way. That is an absolute shame. Exactly why they were built.
Ha ha ha. Thanks for noticing. Of course I am right here.
The thing with the 300k car is that there was obviously more than one person chasing it for huge money. I have a really hard time believing that. I believe that shill bidding happens often.
The 154k car? Nobody brought up that it is a supposed factory W-30 four speed but has power brakes.
I agree with as so many said already. What is the point? You spend that kind of cash you guarantee there will be no running those cars thru gears even half way. That is an absolute shame. Exactly why they were built.
A lot of people believe there is shill bidding going on, mainly on the cars with reserves (see below Mecum news article). Auction houses sometimes own quite a few cars that go across the auction block. If one doesn't think there are shenanigans going on during these auctions. They are probably the same people who believe the Congress and Senate are filled with all honest politicians looking out for our country and not their interests. Recently in Canada, the Cullen Commission was tasked with looking at dirty money artificially raising real-estate prices in Vancouver but in doing so it inadvertently found that high end, luxury and classic cars are a big part of money laundering.
On that $300k purchase, total commission fees was what, $50,000?
Back in 2010, the Minneapolis Star Tribune expose on Mecum:
A lawsuit accuses Warner and Mecum Auctions Inc., an Illinois-based auction house, of soliciting bids from friends who didn't really intend to buy, solely to drive up prices on certain boats. The parties settled earlier this year, though they say final papers have yet to be signed. Mecum admits he telephones well-heeled friends during his auctions to invigorate the bidding, but he asserts there's nothing wrong with it.
"Damn right we're trying to drive up the bidding -- that's our job!" Louis Spiro, a wholesale car dealer and convicted white-collar felon from Seminole, Fla., testified in a deposition that Mecum called him during the auction and persuaded him to bid for Thunderballs, even though Spiro wasn't present, hadn't planned to bid and didn't have any interest in antique boats. "He thought if I bought the boat that [we] could have the possibility of making some profit," Spiro said, according to a transcript of the sworn testimony. "He was trying to make sure the boat didn't get given away at a lower figure." Spiro's $155,000 bid won the boat but he decided the next day that he didn't want it, he testified. He called Mecum, who said he didn't have to take the boat. "He said, 'Since you're not going to, you know, pay for it, I'll have to figure out somewhere else or something to do with it,''' Spiro testified. Mecum said it's "uncommon" for him to let a winning bidder out of a purchase, as he did with the three friends who bought boats.
Ha ha ha. Thanks for noticing. Of course I am right here.
The thing with the 300k car is that there was obviously more than one person chasing it for huge money. I have a really hard time believing that. I believe that shill bidding happens often.
The 154k car? Nobody brought up that it is a supposed factory W-30 four speed but has power brakes.
I agree with as so many said already. What is the point? You spend that kind of cash you guarantee there will be no running those cars thru gears even half way. That is an absolute shame. Exactly why they were built.
The $154,000.00 W-30 you have referred to is NOT a 4 speed car, it is an automatic. It is properly restored to a very high level.
Well except for the stripes being completely off...
Ok I see the confusion.
$154,000.00 number 1; The blue 4 speed, convertible 442 is NOT a documented W-30 and not a documented 4 speed 442. It did have the correct W-30 parts and seemed like a good car in a desirable color combination. This was not a maximum standards restoration.
$154,000.00 number 2. The Gold w/Black vinyl top W-30 Coupe automatic, is documented and restored to a high standard with correct style stripes.
I still see zero reason to own a bad *** car Oldsmobile or otherwise that sits and sits and sits. Huge difference between a "collector" and a true Oldsmobile person. Lame. Why? What is the point? Just so someone can say "Oh look what I have.."
Do you drive it? How does it pull?
Umm. I can't tell you. It's nothing but an investment. That is a car owner that doesn't get it. Doesn't really care.
The $302k 1970 W-30 was one rough car back in 2015. The original owner's brother owned the car for the majority of its life. It sat outside for years under multiple tarps and the moisture stayed trapped. Car sat next to a garage and was fenced in tight on three sides to keep it hidden. The car was originally nugget gold with a black interior. Frame was even rough on this one. May still have some pictures of the car from 2015; not pretty.
I hate the dealer slime thing. I think I got a fair deal on my H/O, but I still have a few questions and I feel ok about it. On the other hand, I drove to Nashville one time and bought a perfectly restored receiver. The guy demoed it, he had restored it with a buddy who is a tech, and I paid him what he wanted. He just about had me stay for dinner. Big difference. The receiver has one thing not as original, and a plastic **** insert cracked last week, but, other than that, it's great.
One day I'd like to go to a guy's place, drive an old classic he wants gone that's perfect, and pay him what he wants or real close and just have a good deal all around and know I could call him up and shoot the **** and update him and ask questions. I want one of those Detroit wreckers with an enclosure too, like a rolling garage that any sports car could get into easily and ride comfortably. Fly somewhere, make a deal, fly home, get the truck, go get it.
The $302k 1970 W-30 was one rough car back in 2015. The original owner's brother owned the car for the majority of its life. It sat outside for years under multiple tarps and the moisture stayed trapped. Car sat next to a garage and was fenced in tight on three sides to keep it hidden. The car was originally nugget gold with a black interior. Frame was even rough on this one. May still have some pictures of the car from 2015; not pretty.
Ouch!!! Exactly my points made. Thank you. 300+ grand for a non original paint rotted car. Nice. 👍
I still see zero reason to own a bad *** car Oldsmobile or otherwise that sits and sits and sits. Huge difference between a "collector" and a true Oldsmobile person. Lame. Why? What is the point? Just so someone can say "Oh look what I have.."
Do you drive it? How does it pull?
Umm. I can't tell you. It's nothing but an investment. That is a car owner that doesn't get it. Doesn't really care.
What exactly is the definition of a “true Oldsmobile person?”
What exactly is the definition of a “true Oldsmobile person?”
I get that you know the buyer. How does a true Oldsmobile person pay that kind of jack for a non factory color car? Hey if you got it go get it. Sounds like a car that was tagged with dash marks because it was one of the factory special order color cars. Then someone took it upon themselves to paint it whatever of the four that they wanted.
True Oldsmobile person may be an undefined term but if you are really a true Oldsmobile person why would pay that for a car that had the original color changed?
Because you can. That's why. Originality? That doesn't matter anymore. That's what chaps my ***. People defend faked cars. Non original cars. I get called out for having that opinion. Guess what. It's not changing. Give a **** people. Quit paying big money for a whatever. Well she sure is purty...
Last edited by no1oldsfan; May 23, 2022 at 08:39 PM.
The $302k 1970 W-30 was one rough car back in 2015. The original owner's brother owned the car for the majority of its life. It sat outside for years under multiple tarps and the moisture stayed trapped. Car sat next to a garage and was fenced in tight on three sides to keep it hidden. The car was originally nugget gold with a black interior. Frame was even rough on this one. May still have some pictures of the car from 2015; not pretty.
Worth every penny of 300k painted a non original color. What's left of the original car??
Most are overweight and out of shape and they don't know how to drive their art cars, let alone even drive their cars as they are trailer queens. Probably don't even have any engine oil in the crankcase. 
We don't sit on lawnchairs with huge bellies and talk about the good old days and the numbers matching garage and trailer queen we own. We cruise and enjoy our cars and life by driving our cars on a weekly basis.
