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Arizonaoven This author's likes: 18As the 32 year owner of 3 1970 442 W 30 cars, that are fully documented and backed with build sheets, I can attest that this is most certainly “not” an original ‘W” car. Too many items are incorrect. Oldsmobile did not build a W-30 4 speed car with either PS or air. The cam simply would not produce enough vacuum for the booster pump for PS. All 4 speed W cars drum/disc I’m 70. No air was available for the 4 speed cars either. Also, the low amp open face alternator is not present in this car. I am sure a carb check will also show this as a non W carb or a re-stamp. This certainly is a nice convertible 442 but I can attest that as it is presented this was not a rare 96 production car. I would be curious to tge previous color as I believe I viewed this car years ago for another buyer.
Good luck but buyers beware.
Since the 442 was not an option but a model in '70 it can be documented by the VIN. Assuming the engine stamp on this car is legit that validates the original 442 engine. But, the only way to document it as a real W car is with some kind of factory documentation such as a broadcast card, a window sticker or other dealership paperwork. Second best would be if the original owner's testimony validated it with pics from back in the day with a written signed letter, but even then I'd question it without some kind of paperwork.
That said, you can't prove it's real without docs but you can't prove it's a fake either without some person's testimony with validation. If you buy it as real without docs, there is always a chance a witness can come along later and claim they saw it being recreated or rebodied. I know of one such car on this site and I have pics, but that's just not me.
He posted the cowl tag, so unless that's fake, it's a code 19 car. This car is out of Illinois.. was at the body shop for a long time and never had papers. Lets say a few W27 / W30 parts were added, maybe because they were missing or whatever. Nice vert, and my bet is the buyer will be another dealer moving money around. You'll see it again within 6 months at BJ or Mecum.
Tough to bid on dealer cars with reserve, and lots of shill bidding possible. But whomever spends the money keeps the hobby and economy rolling. Can't hate on that. imo
It's at $71.5k right now. I am pretty sure it will sell for close to $100k. Even without proof of being a W-30. As mentioned on the BaT site, it's probably going to keep getting flipped by dealer to dealer.
If the Gas Monkey 72 442 poorly done car brought $70k, I can see this car bringing in $100k or more.
Arizonaoven This author's likes: 18As the 32 year owner of 3 1970 442 W 30 cars, that are fully documented and backed with build sheets, I can attest that this is most certainly “not” an original ‘W” car. Too many items are incorrect. Oldsmobile did not build a W-30 4 speed car with either PS or air. The cam simply would not produce enough vacuum for the booster pump for PS. All 4 speed W cars drum/disc I’m 70. No air was available for the 4 speed cars either. Also, the low amp open face alternator is not present in this car. I am sure a carb check will also show this as a non W carb or a re-stamp. This certainly is a nice convertible 442 but I can attest that as it is presented this was not a rare 96 production car. I would be curious to tge previous color as I believe I viewed this car years ago for another buyer.
Good luck but buyers beware.
Power steering was an option on 1970 4 speed W30 cars. Mine is an original and has it.
The seller is at least a bit savvy. He posted pics of the carb and trans VIN.
I posted that the W27 became available the week the car was built. He later added info that the '27 was added: OK fair enough.
The most recent thing he posted further mystifies the (lack of) documentation.
"This 1970 442 W-30 is a 3-Owner car with the 2nd owner having it in his possession for 10 years and the third for a little over 2 years. The first owner was a gentleman from Desplaines Illinois. The Oldsmobile was purchased by the second owner from the first owner’s wife who let the car sit in her garage for over 15 years after her husband passed.
the original owners wife sold the car."
So the original owner had the car until 2010. So, in 2010 the original owners city and even wife was known, but she could not produce one single piece of paper from the purchase of the car? They never even mentioned pics or ???
Again, this does not mean the car is not a real W. It does however deepen the plot as to why documents can't be provided.
I'm sure the car will sell, and the buyer should be happy. But will they be happy "IF" they find out the carb is fake, the motor is restamped, the alt, sender, radiator, and numerous other piece are incorrect ? Not sure. I'm guessing it will resell quickly (ie dealer), and the illusion will continue. Btw, I'm 100% positive the intake, valve covers and W27 were not on he car prior to the resto.
Wink wink. I'm guessing an "Olds" board person won't buy this car unless they get a great deal. I would say 85K. Just my .02
He posted the cowl tag, so unless that's fake, it's a code 19 car. This car is out of Illinois.. was at the body shop for a long time and never had papers. Lets say a few W27 / W30 parts were added, maybe because they were missing or whatever. Nice vert, and my bet is the buyer will be another dealer moving money around. You'll see it again within 6 months at BJ or Mecum.
Tough to bid on dealer cars with reserve, and lots of shill bidding possible. But whomever spends the money keeps the hobby and economy rolling. Can't hate on that. imo
I would respectfully disagree and actually think the profiteering is what kills the hobby.
I’m curious why some cars without documentation sell for more than others. For example, I inspected Joe Spagnoli’s silver W-30 before he sold it at Mecum. His car sold for $137.5k:
This car had no documentation and is an automatic. He said all his documents burned in a house fire. However, the vert on BAT is going to bring substantially less.
Why does one undocumented car bring more than another. Shouldn’t undocumented W-30’s be bought like your buying a regular 442. That’s kind of how I looked at it when I bought.
Last edited by ericisback; September 20th, 2022 at 05:21 PM.
I’m curious why some cars without documentation sell for more than others. For example, I inspected Joe Spagnoli’s silver W-30 before he sold it at Mecum. His car sold for $137.5k:
This car had no documentation and is an automatic. He said all his documents burned in a house fire. However, the vert on BAT is going to bring substantially less.
Why does one undocumented car bring more than another. Shouldn’t undocumented W-30’s be bought like your buying a regular 442. That’s kind of how I looked at it when I bought.
Quality of restoration and how original a car is makes a really big difference. Even if this car happens to have "original numbers" it has many things wrong if you are looking for a really original correct car. Even as a standard 442, it has lots of things wrong with it to be a "correct" car. Not at all saying it is not a nice car, just not correct for top money. That said, it has a $15K+ rear end in it and comes with another. One could pull the W-27 and put the other one in it, sell the W-27 for really good money lowering the overall price of the car.
Joe Spagnoli has credibility in the Olds world, thats a big factor right there where this car dealer does not. And we all know car dealers will say anything for a sale.
Quality of restoration and how original a car is makes a really big difference. Even if this car happens to have "original numbers" it has many things wrong if you are looking for a really original correct car. Even as a standard 442, it has lots of things wrong with it to be a "correct" car. Not at all saying it is not a nice car, just not correct for top money. That said, it has a $15K+ rear end in it and comes with another. One could pull the W-27 and put the other one in it, sell the W-27 for really good money lowering the overall price of the car.
The salient issue I see is weather or not this is a real W-30, not weather or not it has some issues and some incorrect pieces. The car could have a open 3:08 gear from a '65 and a OHV six from a Tempest and it could still be a real W-30. On the other hand it could have everything in nice tidy order and be a fake W car.
Since no docs are offered the sellers testimony is all that's there. IMHO it's telling. His written text is debatable, but I wonder how can a car of such interest be traced to the original owner just 12 years ago and not be offered with one shred of documentation, or at least a written letter of authentication, or pics of back in the day, or?
Joe Spagnoli has credibility in the Olds world, thats a big factor right there where this car dealer does not. And we all know car dealers will say anything for a sale.
September 16th, 2022, 11:02 AM
