Macadoo

Because I'll need to push the car back into the shop after the engine install this weekend (fingers crossed) I'd like to have brakes. I just finished bench bleeding the MC and installing it and the booster. But with the engine out the MC is at an extreme angle. Can I bleed the brakes at that angle?
And I realize manual bleeding is a pain but it will give my daughter a chance to talk non stop for a while But are we talking an hour for all four or more like an hour per wheel?

Professur

The angle will vary again when you jack up the rear to take the back wheels off. Not a big concern.

Oldsmaniac

It should take about 10 minutes per wheel maximum if all the bleeders are clear and not stuck. as long as there is fluid covering the bottom of the master cyl you should be fine.

oldcutlass

Maybe an hour for all four max. Yes you can bleed them at any angle as long as the reservoir is full.


Starting with the brake farthest from the master cylinder, right rear, have your daughter sit inside and pump the brakes until it feels like it built some pressure. Then she should just apply enough pedal pressure with her foot to allow the pedal to go to the floor when you open the bleeder screw. When the pedal reaches the floor, she needs to hold it there until you tighten the bleeder and let her know to pump the pedal again. Repeat until you see a steady stream of fluid, then refill the M/C and proceed to the left rear and repeat the process.


Then go to right front and repeat, then left front and repeat.

Macadoo

Awesome. Thanks guys. More questions to come

Olds442redberet

For me this has always been the best method of bleeding the brakes. I tried using special tools and in almost all cases, I went back to the above discribed method in order to get the job done.

Jack the car up in the rear, it's not required, but it helps.

It'll take no more than an hour to accomplish so long as there isn't a leak anywhere.

Good luck

Macadoo

Thanks redberet.

Professur

Silly question ... how tall is your daughter?

Macadoo

Lol, uhhh....About 5'8"?

Professur

Had to ask. Mine is too short to get the pedal all the way down when bleeding without a couple of cushions behind her back.

redoldsman

I bought one of these hand held pressure bleeders where you bleed from each wheel cylinder back to the master cylinder. It actually pushed the fluid from the wheel cylinder all the way back to the master cylinder. I used it on my 54 after I had the treadlevac rebuilt. I have done brakes for years and this is one of the best things I have come across. I have had two 72 Cutlass convertibles and neither of them had brakes when I bought them. They are a pain to get all the air out of. This thing is cheap and it works. Here is the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-man-brake-..._Tools&vxp=mtr

Macadoo

Shouldn't be a problem Prof. She's tall enough and pretty strong.

Thanks for the heads-up Red. If I have an issue I will certainly look into one of these. I wonder what else it will shoot 30+ feet

redoldsman

You may shop it a little bit. I bought mine on ebay but I think I only paid like $15-$16 for it. They use these on light airplanes to bleed brakes. The brakes are out on my 72 Cutlass and I don't dread doing them now. It is one of the best bargains I ever bought.

rustyroger

I simply take the top off the master cylinder then open the bleed screws in turn and let gravity do the work while I have a cuppa.


Roger.

Macadoo

Seriously?

rustyroger

Absolutely. For maybe 30 years or so.


Roger.

joe_padavano

Gravity bleeding works fine - so long as there are no places in the system that can trap air. I've tried all the bleeder tools over the last four decades. The only one that works (and it works fantastically) is a vacuum bleeder that uses shop air through a venturi to create the vacuum. I snagged one of these at the Long Beach swap meet years ago for $15 because no one else there knew what it was. It takes me longer to jack the car up than to bleed the whole system. You don't even need to bench bleed the M/C - it will suck the air out of that also. I strongly recommend one.

Mine is a Vaccula brand bleeder (get it???)

http://www.etoolcart.com/ProductImag.../VAC0051-L.jpg

Macadoo

Ahh, but I have no compressor at this point. Unless you count the itty bitty thing I keep in my truck to fill tires when needed.

oldcutlass

Did you get them bled? The manual method works fine and costs nothing but a few extra minutes of time.

Lady72nRob71

I had used the mity-vac hand pump when I did the Pinto rear brakes a few months ago. It worked well, just stop after the big bubbles turn to fizz-type bubbles as it sucks air awound the bleed screw threads.
I usually do it the two person (preferred) way but had no help available that weekend.

Macadoo

Not yet. Had to go to a work-related party this afternoon. It was fun and was probably good for me to get away. I'm getting a little obsessed.

brown7373

Just one point. The 1972 Olds Service Manual, 1he 1972 Chevrolet Service Manual and the 1970 Pontiac Service Manual all say to bleed the brake CLOSEST to the master cylinder, not the farthest. So the correct sequence, according to the Service Manuals is left front, right front, left rear and right rear last. I've been bleeding them that way since 1968.

joe_padavano

I have yet to have someone explain to me how, in a dual-circuit brake system where the front and rear brakes are hydraulically independent, this matters. The only thing that matters is that you don't press so hard on the pedal that the differential pressure switch piston goes hard one way and blocks the other circuit from being bled.

brown7373

I can't see how it matters either, but I will stick with the way all the Service Manuals say to do it...just in case there is some reason why it matters.

Macadoo

brown speaks the truth. The '71 CSM says the same thing. Perhaps it isn't all that critical.

"Hard" as in too quickly or "hard" is in too far down?

joe_padavano

Primarily too quickly. When you press too fast, if there's a restriction in the line (like the bleeder screw isn't completely open), line pressures will rise, possibly pushing the piston to one side, especially if the other side hasn't been bled yet and there is air in the lines. Use a smooth, continual push on the pedal, don't jab at it.

Macadoo

Roger that. Thanks

pogo69

the gravity method is mostly fine if you have the time the other method i like best is to fill a 20 oz pepsi bottle 1/2 full with the clean fluid , a lenghth of clear tubing and crack the valve and slowly pump till the bubbles rise its foolproof

pogo69

joe, check your pm's , is it full?

Macadoo

I found these today. Anyone ever us them?

[IMG][/IMG]

Didn't think to check the thread pattern. I'll check before I open them.

oldcutlass

You can start in the front or the rear. I start in the rear out of habit and do both rears and then both fronts. Joe, I never understood why they suggest some of the things in the service manuals sometimes. Maybe just uniformity for the mechanics.

rcdynamic88

I would suggest a Pressure bleeder. I have tried gravity bleeding and the old pump them up and release method over the years, but now that I have a pressure bleeder I will never do those other ways again. They come with a plate that you place on the top of the MC. You pump up a canister that looks like a deck sprayer until you have 10-15 lbs of pressure. Then you open the bleeder and the pressure pushes the fluid out so quickly you are done before you know it. Twenty minutes at the most for all four wheels. Why wait around for gravity, or have to have an assistant to pump the brakes? With a pressure bleeder its a one man job that you can do quickly and then move on to the next part of your project.

oldsguybry

Roger taught me that one last week , and it worked great ! Thanks Roger

rustyroger

Aw thanks!


There are many ways of bleeding brakes, as long as they purge air from the system they all work.
I use gravity because typically I'm in the garage on my own, and if I have help we often have different ideas about the best way to do it.


Incidentally I found gravity bleeding was the only way I could effectively bleed the hydraulic clutch on the much unloved British Morris Marina.


Roger.

nsnarsk65cutlass

Gravity works just fine,an assistant works faster, putting the hose attached to the bleeder screw in brake fluid works,it's whatever you choose.Now a pressure bleeder is the fastest.

brown7373

I bought a pair of the self bleeding screws for the calipers and they seem to work fine, but since I am battling lousy rebuild cores that leak at the hose connection, I am not finished yet. Cardone is sending me 2 calipers free of charge to replace the many that have been leaking...but that is another thread. The only problem I see with the self bleeders is you can't see the fluid coming out since you are in the car. So is all the air done, or do you need to keep pumping? I think you still need an assistant to watch, or maybe a big mirror.


Anyone seen a pair for the rear wheel cylinders that are a different size, 5/16 I think. At least the fitting is smaller.

Macadoo

True enough. And I agree on the assistant. But in my case my daughter is looking forward to helping so she can press the pedal. But these'll beat tightening the bleeder every stroke of the pedal. I don't mind sitting and watching bubbles

jag1886

This works, have done this several times, when the fluid starts to drip close the bleeders and then bleed the brakes in the standard way and it it's quick and simple.

Leadfoot

IMO, the SpeedBleeders are a great product. I've installed them on three motorcycles and my F-150, and have a set ready to install on the '69 Cutlass. They are the only product I've used that truly makes bleeding brakes a one-man, no-brainer operation.

I think It's pretty well-accepted everywhere that hydraulic brake systems should be completely flushed periodically, and SpeedBleeders make it so easy that I do it at least every couple of years, and it's just a regular part of my annual spring motorcycle maintenance.

With 4-wheel vehicles, I just use a long enough drain hose on the bleed fitting so that I can keep the waste fluid container where I can see it while I pump the pedal. When the fluid is clean, I move to the next wheel. Working alone, it takes me no more then 30 minutes to completely flush a four-wheel system, most of which is spent getting out and topping off the MC reservoirs. No mess, no fancy gadgets, no parts or tools to store. I like that.