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I purchased this kit for my 1972 Cutlass that has OEM 14in SSII wheels, as they were one of the only front disc conversion that advertised they would fit factory 14in wheels.
Now, unfortunately, the company is no longer and the parts are discontinued. I cannot seem to find exactly what replacement parts these are as I need new pads and rotors.
Since I'm getting new pads and with my newly added power the OEM style brakes are not cutting it, can anyone tell me if these actually are direct fit and/or worth it?
I purchased this kit for my 1972 Cutlass that has OEM 14in SSII wheels, as they were one of the only front disc conversion that advertised they would fit factory 14in wheels.
Now, unfortunately, the company is no longer and the parts are discontinued. I cannot seem to find exactly what replacement parts these are as I need new pads and rotors.
Since I'm getting new pads and with my newly added power the OEM style brakes are not cutting it, can anyone tell me if these actually are direct fit and/or worth it?
These cars came from the factory with SSIIs and 10.75" rotors. Why did you think you needed these 10" rotors and oddball calipers to clear?
Well this doesn't really help my current situation or question, but honestly back then many forum members recommended it as most OEM retro-fit disc brake conversions wouldn't fit my 14in SSII's, 'apparently.'
What is the piston diameter of the calipers? Is there a number stamped on the pad backing plate anywhere? What is the spacing between the mounting bolts?
Those appear to be the Chevy Astro Van calipers for the AWD configuration (NOT the 2WD calipers, which are different). Should have a 2.94" diameter piston. RockAuto sells them. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the rotors are from.
Thank you sir for your response. The brakes are 'fine' and do the job, but I'm probably going to go a different direction now for something that will fit my 14in SSII's, stop a bit better, and not be a mish-mash of parts from random vehicles.
Thank you sir for your response. The brakes are 'fine' and do the job, but I'm probably going to go a different direction now for something that will fit my 14in SSII's, stop a bit better, and not be a mish-mash of parts from random vehicles.
Repro OEM brakes with 10.75" rotors are about the best you can fit in those wheels. Unfortunately, due to the design of the SSII/III wheels, even the 15" versions don't provide much additional room for bigger brakes. You can upgrade to the Wilwood D52 calipers and gain about 12% more piston area.
The stock D52 calipers have 5.9 sq in of piston area. Those four piston calipers have 4.80 sq in. Why would you want to use those? You're paying a premium for LESS braking force.
The Wilwood two-piston D52s have 6.28 sq in and bolt onto the stock caliper brackets. This is what I use.
The Wilwood D52 caliper is a nice unit. The caliper is a direct replacement for the OEM caliper - uses the same mounting bracket, same rotor, same hardware, same brake line, same pads. The only thing you have to replace is the caliper (when coming from an OE setup).
You'll need the mounting brackets, possibly hoses - need a 7/16" banjo on the caliper end - and your choice of original application pads. This assumes you have an OE disc spindle (not a drum spindle).
But, note that you can get a complete OE disc conversion kit for the price of the wilwood calipers. That's likely to be a smidge better than what you have now, but the selection of pads might be more important. Note that Rockauto and such list a fair number of pad options, but you can find much more by searching for "D52 brake pad". "D52" is the pattern designation for the OE pad design - it's not Wilwood's number or anything.
The Wilwood D52 caliper is a nice unit. The caliper is a direct replacement for the OEM caliper - uses the same mounting bracket, same rotor, same hardware, same brake line, same pads. The only thing you have to replace is the caliper (when coming from an OE setup).
You'll need the mounting brackets, possibly hoses - need a 7/16" banjo on the caliper end - and your choice of original application pads. This assumes you have an OE disc spindle (not a drum spindle).
But, note that you can get a complete OE disc conversion kit for the price of the wilwood calipers. That's likely to be a smidge better than what you have now, but the selection of pads might be more important. Note that Rockauto and such list a fair number of pad options, but you can find much more by searching for "D52 brake pad". "D52" is the pattern designation for the OE pad design - it's not Wilwood's number or anything.
The Wilwood D52 calipers take the same pads as the OEM calipers. As for the complete kit, the issue is additional piston area in the Wilwood calipers.
Yes, but as noted, you need OEM disc brake spindles, rotors, brackets, and splash shields. I assume your current kit used the drum spindles. Also, OPGI wouldn't be my first choice for these. Jegs has them for $169 each, which is $338 for the pair, not the $383 the OPGI (and apparently most other vendors) is asking. Also be aware that Wilwood makes two versions for 1" and 1.25" thick rotors. Be sure you get the calipers for the 1" rotors.
Does anyone have links if they were to do it all over again, which kit would you chose? My car was originally drums all around, and luckily the kit I bought didn't require any cutting. I don't like the kit and will just chalk it up.
The Wilwood disc conversion for OEM 14in wheels has a smaller caliper but 4 pistons. Not sure if that matters.
Does anyone have links if they were to do it all over again, which kit would you chose? My car was originally drums all around, and luckily the kit I bought didn't require any cutting. I don't like the kit and will just chalk it up.
The Wilwood disc conversion for OEM 14in wheels has a smaller caliper but 4 pistons. Not sure if that matters.
The number of pistons is irrelevant. It's the total area that matters. The Wilwood catalog says that four piston caliper has only 4.80 sq in. The D52 stock single piston caliper has 5.9 sq in. Assuming the same line pressure, the four piston caliper only provides 81% of the clamping force of the OEM caliper. The smaller diameter rotor compounds this problem, because the lever arm is smaller, so the resulting braking force at the pavement is even less. The Wilwood D52 two piston caliper, however, has 6.28 sq in of piston area, so about 12% more clamping force than OEM. The Right Stuff mini kit is probably the most economical way to convert to OEM style spindles and bracket.
The number of pistons is irrelevant. It's the total area that matters. The Wilwood catalog says that four piston caliper has only 4.80 sq in. The D52 stock single piston caliper has 5.9 sq in. Assuming the same line pressure, the four piston caliper only provides 81% of the clamping force of the OEM caliper. The smaller diameter rotor compounds this problem, because the lever arm is smaller, so the resulting braking force at the pavement is even less. The Wilwood D52 two piston caliper, however, has 6.28 sq in of piston area, so about 12% more clamping force than OEM. The Right Stuff mini kit is probably the most economical way to convert to OEM style spindles and bracket.
Thank you.
So get this kit since I already have supporting hardware converted to disc brakes (booster, prop. valve, etc.?)
Yes. That is the Right Stuff mini kit I was talking about. Again, just be sure you get the calipers for the 1" rotors, not the 1.25" rotors. Also, be aware that the Right Stuff kit does not include rotors. I don't know what you have now. If the current rotors are stock 10.75" diameter, 1" thick, and the same offset as OEM, you can reuse them. If not, you need replacement rotors for a 1969-72 Cutlass with disc brakes, available anywhere.
Note that rotor quality is currently in the trash can. I went through four sets looking for a good pair. Visually inspect to make sure the vanes look even (I had one that had major core shift in the mold!), mount and check runout on your spindle.
Yes. That is the Right Stuff mini kit I was talking about. Again, just be sure you get the calipers for the 1" rotors, not the 1.25" rotors. Also, be aware that the Right Stuff kit does not include rotors. I don't know what you have now. If the current rotors are stock 10.75" diameter, 1" thick, and the same offset as OEM, you can reuse them. If not, you need replacement rotors for a 1969-72 Cutlass with disc brakes, available anywhere.
Perfect thank you. I'll buy the Right Stuff mini kit, the D52 Wilwood calipers, and OEM 10.75x1in rotors.
The stock D52 calipers have 5.9 sq in of piston area. Those four piston calipers have 4.80 sq in. Why would you want to use those? You're paying a premium for LESS braking force.
The Wilwood two-piston D52s have 6.28 sq in and bolt onto the stock caliper brackets. This is what I use.
I thought the OE D52 calipers have a piston diameter of 2.934 inches and corresponding piston area of approximately 6.76 square inches? Did the Olds come with a smaller piston in their calipers vs. Chevy, Buick, etcetera? Or, am I just mistaken in my recollection of the OE D52 piston size?
But, good point about decreasing the piston area reduces total brake torque at the wheel for a given amount of force applied to the brake pedal. This is one of the biggest issues that results in poor braking performance when people start swapping on after market brake calipers and big brake kits. You have to compensate for the reduced piston area by using a small master cylinder, changing pedal ratios, or increasing brake boost via a hydroboost setup or some other means.
The referenced kit also has a +.47 inch offset per side. Pushing the wheel and tire towards the fender might cause interference issues if the OP every wants to run a wider tire in the front.
I thought the OE D52 calipers have a piston diameter of 2.934 inches and corresponding piston area of approximately 6.76 square inches? Did the Olds come with a smaller piston in their calipers vs. Chevy, Buick, etcetera? Or, am I just mistaken in my recollection of the OE D52 piston size?
Does anyone have links/recommendations on high quality OEM-sized rotors?
Anything from Centric, Napa branded products, or name branded products such as Wagner, Raybestos, etcetera will be fine. Don't buy anything drilled, its just cosmetic and promotes cracking under hard use. The biggest decision is if you want to spend the extra money on a rotor with a coated center hat to prevent rust. Find what is locally available at the lowest price. You can look up what you need on most auto parts store sites based on application.
The reality is that even the brand name parts (Raybestos, Wagner, etc) are Chinesium these days.
Yep. So are OEM parts on new cars. Even some of the Brembo stuff I get is chinese. It comes down to who can you trust for quality control and inspections.
Origin doesn't matter so much as QA. No matter what you buy, or how much you spend, inspect it yourself for balance and runout. Buying local is nice as it's easier to return. I ended up returning every parts store rotor I got. The slotted Centric rotors were good enough to keep.
"This kits rotor has Outside diameter of 10.625" and a nominal thickness of 1.404" and Discard thickness of .965". Meant to be used with factory 14" wheels, using your drum or disc brake spindle."
Is that an OEM disc size? I thought OEM was 10.75" diameter, 1" thick? Or is this close enough?
"This kits rotor has Outside diameter of 10.625" and a nominal thickness of 1.404" and Discard thickness of .965". Meant to be used with factory 14" wheels, using your drum or disc brake spindle."
Is that an OEM disc size? I thought OEM was 10.75" diameter, 1" thick? Or is this close enough?
That is some wacky thing they created. I forget where the calipers came from - Joe mentioned it once. But that set is designed for the really early 14" wheels that have a really tight internal contour. AFAIK, these are fairly rare. If you have wheels from 68 or later (or maybe even earlier!), even 14", they'll clear the stock disc setup.
If you use that setup, you'll be stuck figuring out what that used for that rotor and caliper. You can probably find pads on your own (once you find the OE application), but I don't know if the rotors are a standard part or something they created.
A stock kit is about the same price, uses larger pads and a larger rotor, much larger caliper piston, thus much better braking performance, than this kit.
That is some wacky thing they created. I forget where the calipers came from - Joe mentioned it once. But that set is designed for the really early 14" wheels that have a really tight internal contour. AFAIK, these are fairly rare. If you have wheels from 68 or later (or maybe even earlier!), even 14", they'll clear the stock disc setup.
If you use that setup, you'll be stuck figuring out what that used for that rotor and caliper. You can probably find pads on your own (once you find the OE application), but I don't know if the rotors are a standard part or something they created.
A stock kit is about the same price, uses larger pads and a larger rotor, much larger caliper piston, thus much better braking performance, than this kit.
Good to know - for clarifications sake they made a typo and the disc brake is OEM specs, not the weird dimensions they originally quoted me.
Do you have a link to an OEM front disc brake kit?
Depends on what parts you currently have and what you need.
This one is all stock parts: https://www.getdiscbrakes.com/afxwk01c
They say "15" wheels", but it's stock parts, and these cars came from the factory with 14" wheels. They just don't want to bother with the details of the rare early 14" wheels. You can tell it's the stock stuff because of the mounting bracket and calipers. Look for those particular brackets.
I usually search for Chevelle parts for things like this. All this junk is identical, and Chevelle parts are more widely advertised across more vendors, so sometimes cheaper.
Bolt-On Willwood Calipers?
