radioburningchrome

Good thing is I was driving when it happened, not my wife. Bad news is mechanic said the brakes lines are all shot. Quoted me $600-800 to replace everything

Has anyone changed brakes lines on a similar 95-99 Olds 88?

I have replaced lines on my former 1965 Delta, not anything newer.

radioburningchrome

Noticed a section from the master cylinder is braided stainless. Do after market come this way?

oldcutlass

For some reason I just can't believe your brake lines are shot. I must be a real rust bucket. I bet you have something less expensive wrong.

Allan R

Here is a pic from the GM manual of your brakes



For descriptions of the parts and pricing from GM, check this: 1997 Olds LSS Brake Hoses and Pipes

From what I remember of my 1995 Regency Elite (basically the big brother of the LSS) all the fuel lines ran down the passenger side, and the brake lines to the rear ran down the drivers side. If you can get the car up at least 15" off the ground all the way along you probably could do those lines yourself.

I seriously doubt ALL the brake lines are shot. Likely you have one that's gone but he wants the extra $$$ and labor costs to do all this. Chances are really good you could cut the broken section out and put in a union. You're going to lose all your brake fluid doing this so you'll also have to bench bleed your master after the repair is done.

Most of this job is labor. Oh, in response to your question about the flex line? I don't ever remember seeing them on my Olds. Double check and see if that isn't the source of your leak.

radioburningchrome

Oldscutlass:

I will take some better pictures when the sun is brighter. Everything I can see under the hood is rusty beyond belief.

What I cannot understand is how the car has no body rust at all, but my lines look like they are 30+ years old.

radioburningchrome

Allan:

Thanks for the diagram, I was looking for one.

There is alot of work to de done and waiting for nice weather might be a while.

In the meantime I wil have to do all driving duties for my wife....

Allan R

That is very strange indeed. However the body panels on the 1997 were rated as one of the best produced for corrosion resistance according to a 2001 Consumer Report magazine I have kicking around. Any chance the car came from a coastal area where there would be high humidity and salt? Even though my 98 had body rust issues, the engine bay and lines were in decent condition even having survived the GTA (salt belt) for 5 years before heading out west.

joe_padavano

Allan hit the nail on the head. It is virtually impossible for ALL the brake lines to be shot, but if one of them is rusted, the mechanic is worried that it will be difficult to remove just the one without potentially damaging others. Also, he doesn't want to replace just the one and then have you bring the car back in two months with a different leak and screaming that he didn't do the job correctly. To be honest, I've been in that situation (I'll do a brake job and the owner brings the car back complaining that the muffler fell off and it's obviously my fault ).

Note that this car has a dual diagonal braking system, where the LF and RR wheels are on the same hydraulic circuit, as are the RF and LR wheels. Note from the diagram that there are actually TWO proportioning valves because of this, the two item #3 parts in the diagram.

If you tackle this job, buy a set of flare nut wrenches. You may even need flare nut crow's foot wrenches to reach certain fittings.

Allan R

The 90's and on Olds models used the GM metric bubble flares. You would only need that if you intend to make your own replacement lines that attach to the MC, proportioning valves and hoses. If just piecing in a union, a double flare and tube bender will work just fine. Standard straight brake line tube is cheap. If you go with stainless, it costs more and is trickier to bend/flare. But if the name of the game is to save some money in materials (not counting labor since you're doing it yourself) standard straight brake line tube, bender and flaring tools are the way to go.

joe_padavano

Unfortunately, not always. Great picture, by the way.

Imagine my surprise when I went to fabricate a replacement brake line for my 90 Grand Am and found out that one end of the line I had to replace actually used a standard double flare. Fortunately I was able to buy a pre-flared metric line, cut it to length, and reflared the cut end with my SAE flaring tool. I did have to reuse the metric fitting, however. I guess this is like the transition where engines use both SAE and metric bolts.

oldcutlass

Granted I live here in the south. With most of the cars that have been laying around, slowly rotting, and returning to mother earth, one of the few things usually salvageable are the brake lines.

Allan R

Interesting. I guess it could be transitional possibly depending on where the car was destined for after production? With the General I really never knew what to expect. Some fasteners were metric, some SAE. What usually happened in my experience is whatever socket or wrench was needed was always the one that was most worn out......

I know I was really upset when the r.f. brake line on my 1995 Regency Elite twisted off with the flare nut. That's when I found out about those dang bubble flares. And no access to a bubble flare tool either. Cost me a tow job and 40.00 for Peter to fixit. He had to go out and buy that durned bubble kit - cost him around 395.00 at the time. Now they're a lot cheaper.

radioburningchrome

Allan:

The car has been in Pennsylvania for all its life. Salt here is the killer.

radioburningchrome

" Virtually impossible" ! How about *all* lines under the hood are rusted beyond belief.

I have the flare wrenches and tube bender, but time is not on my side.

radioburningchrome

Not here in the rust belt.

All but one of my 1965 GM b body cars came from Linden NJ. My father's 1965 Jetstar 88 was taken back to the dealer 3 weeks after it was new because of rust.

Allan R

Any chance you could post a pic of that? The ones you posted earlier don't really show any rust at all. Is it more the lines UNDER the car that have the rust issues? Those could likely be fixed without having to do complete line replacements.

Now here's the next unfortunate question: Is this really worth it? Is the car worth spending all that money on? I learned the answer to that question the hard way. Rust is one of the nastiest 4 letter words in automotive dictionaries. Sometimes you gotta 'know when to fold em'. I remember when you got this car and how excited you were about it, so please understand I'm not trying to play spoiler here. Just thinking practically.

oldcutlass

So sorry then, because if those lines are rotten the rest of the undercarriage is not far behind. I grew up in New Jersey and are very familiar watching cars wash down the drain. But here the newer materials on later model cars,90's and up, had seemed to fair much better than the 70's cars and back.

radioburningchrome

Here are the brake line pictures.

radioburningchrome

Previous repairs?

radioburningchrome

Under carriage looks average.

radioburningchrome

Along with the brakes, the AC compressor is freezing up.

I see it this way, car payments monthly or repairs yearly.

Not looking to fold, just yet.

oldcutlass

That is just plain ugly.

Allan R

Have to say this time the mechanic got it right. I would replace those too. Better also check the fuel lines especially around the filter. The rocker panel and floors looks really good for a 16 year old car! If you have to do some monthly payments to make it work I'd go for it if you think the car will be reliable for the next couple of years by doing the repair.

AC compressors for these cars are around 30.00 - 35.00 from the boneyard. Of course you'd still have to re-charge the system. Sorry, but I had a bit of a chuckle when you said the AC compressor was 'freezing up'. Just a weird play on words. Have to be careful about that though because if it does seize it can destroy your serpentine belt in a hurry. For now maybe just unplug the electrical connector from the pump so it doesn't cycle. It's designed to do that with the car in Def. If you go for brand new Delco its 222.00 at rockauto http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...258&cc=1216538

Here's a pic of the fuel lines.

radioburningchrome

And simply amazing for a car less than 20 years old.

Most likely the car was never washed off during the snow and the car sat in a garage as the salt ate away.

radioburningchrome

The pun was actually intended!

Next thread will be on ac R/R.

Allan R

Good to see you're maintaining a sense of humor through the trials and tribulations.

radioburningchrome

If I was to replace parts 40 and 52 (pipes from master cylinder to ABS unit) , then I need 2 of these:

INSULATOR. Electronic Brake Control. Hydraulic Brake. Hydraulic Brake Pipe.

At $38 a piece?

For two pipes and 2 insulators I am looking at $172?

Allan R

I don't know the local GM pricing where you are, but trust me it's way less than here in Canada. Have you considered asking the dealership if you can buy them at wholesale or wholesale +10%?

radioburningchrome

That was the price from Rock Auto!

Never thought about a dealership. That is if is available?

Allan R

They can probably get it. I asked them for rubber parts and fuel lines for my 1995 3 years ago and they could get them no problem. In fact they faxed me the exact same page I posted on this thread for brake lines and had written in the cost for each. IIRC it wasn't all that expensive (overall). I just needed the time to do it which I didn't have then. Mostly it's a time consuming job because of where the lines have to run. If I had a hoist it would have been soooo much easier.

Then the car fell through the jack and crushed the brake lines.....You don't want to go there since you already understand 'rust'. So brake and fuel lines + rust = trip to the boneyard for scrap. I took a few parts off the car and sold them before it left.

radioburningchrome

[QUOTE=Allan R;524708]They can probably get it. I asked them for rubber parts and fuel lines for my 1995 3 years ago and they could get them no problem.

If I had a hoist it would have been soooo much easier.

QUOTE]

Looks like Rock Auto will be my main supplier.

No hoist here, going the jack stand route. I will take note of what unfortunately happened to your car.

Allan R

Well, judging from the pics you posted earlier your rockers appear to be in good shape so crossing my fingers nothing happens. What happened to my car was the straw that broke the camels back. I COULD have repaired the brake lines and fuel lines, but at that point I'd sunk so much money into that pit it was starting to turn into a black hole. I needed to cut my losses. Too bad because the car was an excellent driver and I'm sure my son would have loved it as his first car.

I can see it now.
Him: 'Dad, my car won't start'.
Me: "yeah, well you need to put gas in it to make that happen"..

Rickman48

Wonder if the originals were 'made in China' with recycled metal, and someone forgot the rust inhibiter'?
If doing it yourself, I'd look into a roll from Inline Tube or something Made in the USA!

radioburningchrome

While driving yesterday I saw a 1994 or 1995 98. IIRC, yours was a 1995? The one I saw was a tan color and it looked like a really nice ride.

radioburningchrome

I did think about a roll of tubing, Autozone sells sections of tube that are "coated" and come with the bubble flare. This might be an easier way to get the job done.

Vacation days are scheduled April 8th and 9th for this project.

Allan R

yes, mine was 1995 Regency Elite. The only way to tell a 1994 - 1996 apart is by VIN. They are all identical in those years, right down to grilles and tail lamps. Sweet ride?? Damn straight it was. Had all the whistles and bells - too many to count. I know I never saw another one that had so many play toys. Only thing I never liked about any of these cars (including Buick and Pontiac) is the small side mirrors and that stupid small triangular window in the front door. Should have been one piece of glass to increase visibility.

radioburningchrome

After 2 days of messing with the brake lines, all I accomplished was to disturb the fuel lines which broke as well.

Best part of my days was changing all hoses after an adventure with banjo bolts.

Allan R

Sorry to hear about the fuel line woes. Your brake hoses look about 10x better than the ones I replaced on my 98. They were so badly cracked they were actually seeping brake fluid onto the alloy wheels.

What happened with the banjo bolts? They can only be installed one way with the copper crush washers if you don't want them to leak.

How tough was it to get those flare nuts undone from the brake hoses? Been through that living hell myself and can appreciate where you're coming from.

radioburningchrome

Flares at the back wheels was moderate. Flares at front (especially driver side) put up a good fight.

Banjo bolts stripped. Vise grips and torch to get them out.Made a few trips to NAPA to get replacements. Had to order them, installed them today.

Allan R

Bummer. Sorry to hear. My flares put up too good a fight and ended shearing one (passenger side) right off so that meant a whole new section of brake line which I didn't have at the time. Plus it needs that damn bubble flare which I also didn't have a kit for at the time... NAPA helped me out quite a bit too. Had to replace my calipers - they were badly corroded. All told I got it done for around 250.00 instead of the 850 the repair shop quoted. Just it took me longer than they would have. Don't forget to bleed your master cylinder when you're done.