at3reg98

This is the rear dogleg on my '83, it was sideswiped and I plan on replacing the doors. I was thinking with this the only way to tackle this would be a stud welder with a slide hammer and some hammer work here and there. I assume this is a thick structural area so I'm not sure if that would work though, especially since the edge is pushed in. There is also a nasty crease in the middle. Any input would be appreciated.

rocketraider

That's about as hateful a place to repair as there is on a car.

Your idea about a slide hammer and then hammer & dolly work is going to be about the best you can do, unless you can get in behind it with a pick or prybar thru the vent grille. Even if you cut an access hole in the rear wheelhouse it will still be tough to work.

What about getting a dogleg from a donor car and welding it in?

joe_padavano

Gack!

Short of drilling the spot welds and separating the panels, the stud welder is your only option. Depending on your sheet metal welding skills, it might be easier to cut out the dogleg section and either work it off the car or get a replacement and weld it back in.

Bernhard

Stud welder and slide hammer thats the way I would do it.I would also see what the access is like from back. Stud welders are great you can apply a pulling force while working the substraight with a body hammer.
In body work no two dents are the same you have to adjust you technique as the repair unfolds. Take your time and don't over work the metal. It looks like a very simple dent,good luck with the repair

69442C

The way a dent like this is repaired in a shop is to grind the area clean, tack weld a plate (1/8" steel) into the deepest part of the damage and attach a puller to it. Be sure you use enough tack welds to make sure the plate stays attached to the panel. Have a hole in the end of the plate so you can put a hook through it or bolt a small length of chain to the end. You can likely use a come-along if you have something solid to connect it to. Move the plate around into a few different areas and keep pulling until you get it where you want it. USe a body hammer when pressure is pulling on the dent to work any high spots. Be careful where you stand in the event the plate pops off. You can fine tune it with a smaller plate/puller or stud gun. Use a cut off wheel to cut the spot welds when you want to remove the plate. Remember the damage often extends out further than what you see so look it over carefully as you work the damage out. Use a cardboard template made from the other side to gauge your profile.

Brian

Funkwagon455

I agree with stud welding method, however if you don't have a stud welder you can tack household nails and pull the heads with the same results. The extra length of nails can also be handy. This was how I removed a double/diverging crease in one of my rear quarters a while back. I fabricated an attachment fixture for my slide hammer. It takes a while, but then again good metal work just does. The nails can then be simply radiaced/die grind smooth. The structure of the sheet metal in that area is rather robust and less likely to damage surrounding areas, so distortion should be less of a concern. I would be reluctant to remove it with no evidence of corrosion. Just another option to consider without more special equipment.

Allan R

I know the area well. My 83 Regency Brougham was hit there too with almost identical damage. What Brian (69442C) suggested is what the body shop had to do with mine. You are 100% right that this area is going to be VERY stiff to try and pull because of the metal profiles there. Also IIRC on the backside of the inner liner is where the clip is to slot in the skirt before you cinch the lever down. It has to line up right too, so it's not practical or possible to work it from the inside of the wheel well.

FWIW, I would take this to a shop and have them pull it properly. They will use the right tools, anchors and get the proper results. And I would NOT cut that out and replace it. That would likely cost you 4 times what it would cost to just pull it assuming you have a donor car to work with. A slide hammer alone is not going to fix this crease and you don't want to put a thick layer of body filler in there either.

J-(Chicago)

Call me a crazy hillbilly if you like, but I'd just fill it full of mig wire and grind it flush on that part of the car. Pulling on 80's metal is a bad idea since it's tinfoil.

coppercutlass

I just cruised past all other comments. I would used a stud puller 100 bucks at harbor freight. Grind it down weld studsi into the crease. Work your way from the out side in if you pull from the middle out the metal will streach more than what you want it to. You weld a stud put the slide hammer on it lock it and just pull dont use the slide hammer and slam it out what you wanna do is pull back and hammer the crown out or the area around the dent as you pull the low spot and hammer the crown you will gradually pull the dent out with out strectching it as much . You have to weld a stud pull hammer the crown then pull the stud and work your way into the low spot. it might sound confusing but., at this point you cannot pull that dent out in one shot . It has to be gradually pulled out other wise the metal will strecth more and it will be harder to work it to a good point where you can fill it with body filler. J-chicago cras are even thinner now a days and i have fixed some scary stuff. The key is to watch what the metal does and see how hard it is to pull ., metal will walk but it wont go in the right direction if you dont watch what it's doing and you guide it. It's a balancing act.

Bernhard

[QUOTE=69442C;491654]The way a dent like this is repaired in a shop is to grind the area clean, tack weld a plate (1/8" steel) into the deepest part of the damage and attach a puller to it.



This is a very good old school method I used this method back when I was in the trade. You are right never stand in line with a pull there are quite a few brain damaged bodyman/frame man that caught a chain in the head. We were told to place a couple of chains across the pull chain and cover it with heavy canvas tarp to slow down the chain if it breaks. Never ever stand in line with the pull. I don't no what they do today in the modern shops.

coppercutlass

You can also use a tree or a concrete post and come along with a wide hook to pull it out. You can also use the weld plate method with a 10 lb morgan knocker / slide hammer. If the inner structure is pushed in the pull method will do the job if it's just the outter layer of metal you can use the stud puller. i just thought id add that since bernhard made a good point on not standing behind the sling or chain when pulling. It also reminded me i pulled a core support with a concrete beam and a come along . i always do side jobs and being creative is a must since i do not have a frame machine.

Funkwagon455

Quote:
FWIW, I would take this to a shop and have them pull it properly. They will use the right tools, anchors and get the proper results. And I would NOT cut that out and replace it. That would likely cost you 4 times what it would cost to just pull it assuming you have a donor car to work with. A slide hammer alone is not going to fix this crease and you don't want to put a thick layer of body filler in there either.

I don't ever recall applying thick layers of filler on any of my work....

coppercutlass

I don't ever recall applying thick layers of filler on any of my work....[/QUOTE]
I like the way you think im a big advocate for using less filler.

djcrook73

as a body shop employee, i agree with 69442c and coppercutlass on the best course of repair.(and bernard with the importance of chain safety) if it were my car, i would put it on the frame machine and use a weld on pull tab(they come in different widths) and slowly walk it out while tapping the crowns or high spots while pulling the lows out.as many times as required by moving the pull locations around where needed to get the metal back as close as possible without over pulling it- a stud gun works well too for most repairs,but sometimes the control a hydraulic frame tower affords cannot be beat for even a smaller repair such as this. a template is not a bad idea, but having the new rear door installed is a must before beginning to be certain of your progress. and also have the weatherstrip on the door if possible as even though the front of the repair matches up decent while you are working on it,you must check the weatherstrip fit by closing the door over a strip of paper a few inches wide or a dollar bill and slowly drag it out.. if it drags a little, you're good if not adjust as necessary till it is. if body work is not your thing, it's probably a challenging place to start but doable to anyone with the ***** or ambition and someone knowledgeble around to help you learn. although it's a long agreement to the other guys, i hope what i added helps.

droldsmorland

All great suggestions here especially from the professional guys who do it daily. IMO having repaired many a body and currently living in the salt belt the band-aid approach is to attempt to pull it. I just haven’t had the success others have had especially on a tricky area such as that. With all the metal massaging required you’re going to induce rust on the back side where you can’t paint. If you can get to the back side then this method could work ok with proper tools and patience. If not the more permanent solution is to cut & weld (graft) in a new section. That way you can get behind everything and prime paint & rust proof etc... and use weld primer and zinc rich primers behind. If you don’t have the tools & ability I would think that repair wouldn’t be too expensive at a good shop. All depends what your expectation is and how you want the finished product to turn out?

djcrook73

drolds i agree it is a tricky area. i feel this way about it- if it walks easy and has no previous rust, repair it . if it does not, pull it out close and cut and replace. even with weld thru primers i feel enough of it burns off where the mig welding(as opposed to spot welding) takes place to be almost as susceptible to rust as fixing what's there .and with this repair alot more welding to cut/replace versus repair. either way i try to get the beeswax type panel spray into the backside area after paintwork for maximum moisture resistance. not at all an attempt to discredit what you said as you obviously know what you are talking about, but merely a case of six in one, half dozen in the other..

droldsmorland

No offence taken Im thick skinned. I agree with what you say also. You too sound well versed with metal work. I agree there is several ways to skin this cat. IMO less work to just cut and weld. Less time trying to get the flat surface....well flat and maintain the radius and ridges etc.... But the other argument is once you disturb the factory seams your done. But pulling and prodding will loosen the seams too. Bottom line is as long as one takes the steps to prevent rust either repair method will work.

djcrook73

amen to that brother! upon looking back at the thumbnails it did'nt look too bad at first glance but the creases are pretty deep.. i would spend about an hour seeing if it would shape up well and then cut and replace if not. not being able to get at the backside hurts the chances of working the metal properly/easily for sure. tell him to send it somewhere between the two of us and we'll tag team it for him

Bernhard

Very good points about rust prevention.I always sprayed the back of panels were the metal was worked/welded/etc. When I was in the trade I was taught to start the repair at the point of the last damage created buy the collision. So you are backing the dent/damage out.I was taught to look at the damage and plan the repair around this principle.

I was also taught that there was more than one way to skin a cat. The old guys were great mentors.

You can not fill a high spot this was very helpfull when I was starting out and learning to read the repair.
It takes time to develop a eye this is the art part of the trade hand skill and a good eye/reading the repair as it unfolds and making the right adjustments and using the right technique at the right time.

When I started out you could use heat to help unlock a crease/damage. Then heat was to be used with great Caution as the new cars used metal made with high strenth steel. Cars became smart and were designed to fold and absorb collision impact. Using heat from a torch/plasma/mig/etc could add carbon to the steel and make the steel britle, this would change how a car would absorb impact/fold and could put the occpupants in danger. There was rules for used parts that came from a wrecker, plasma cut distance from repair sheet metal had to be X inches away from the sheet metal that was to be used in the repair.

The guys that are still in the trade are you applying plastic filler to bare metal or over epoxy primer? Applying filler over epoxy primer was the way I was taught as a rust control method to return a car to pre collsion rust prevention level.

Sorry I got off topic just thinking about my time in the trade.

at3reg98

Thanks for all the great info, you guys are tops. You really know your stuff. I kinda figured this might be a tough spot to deal with but now I'm sure it is. I might just do as you say and take it to a good shop rather than risk making it worse. That and the cost of getting the stud welder and hammer is probably close to what the repair would cost if I skip paint.

coppercutlass

That area is thin if the shop can keep the repair small they can blen it in the dog leg costing you less since the whole panel wont have to get painted and they can just do a small color and clear blend.