Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hello Again Everyone,

As i've been working slowly on the bodywork for my car. I came across needing a new windshield (the old one was completely cracked for whatever reason when i bought the car.)

The lower moulding (Dash to windshield channel) Is COMPLETELY RUSTED. I've never rust like this anywhere on my car before. So i picked up some good sheet metal and i'm going to make a patch going across my dash. (About 3'' of the dash is missing...) I know there are patches for mont-carlos and such. But i think i'm going to try my welding hand and fabricate something from scratch.

Does anyone have a nice clean picture of what this section should look like?? I'd really appreciate it since i'm probably going to be welding/cutting in the next couple days.

Thanks all!

Cheers,

Tony

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Also,

Here is a picture.

RetroRanger

hey tony I just saw a thread recently where someone had fiberglassed that area ...on that thread someone mentioned the availibility of the replacement panel for that as i understand its relatively common

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Awesome! Thanks Dean, I'll do a search on fiberglass/dash and see what i can find.

It seems like this definitely was a widespread problem on cars that sat outside (which this one did for about 5 years before i got a hold of it.)

This is actually the first time i'm replacing a windshield on any car that i've owned. Used Piano wire to get the old one out and took about 4 hours of scraping to get all the RTV off the old panel...

Anyone replace their windshield recently and have a picture? That would really help with making up a new one. I'm sure sure how high to put the metal or fiberglass...

droldsmorland

IMO from experience....I'd cut an upper cowl out of a southwest car. Several junk yards out there should have this part and will cut, box and ship it to your door per your measurements.
As long as you’re “in” this far performing surgery why not do it right and get all the rust. Get the whole top piece from the firewall pinch weld back. That way you wont induce "weld" rust by piecing it together. Its easier to do perimeter plug welding. I’ve done this the piecemeal method and the correct way. Tried with the fenders on and that didn’t work either. The “correct” way may take more prep time and involve taking more apart than desired but you actually save time on the cosmetic end and the results are much better/cleaner/stronger. The windshield will fit as originally intended. That equates to a safe and leak free installation. You can lap or butt joint weld under the dash pad area if you don’t want to do the entire dash. Be sure to hit the underside with Zinc rich primer and paint to seal it off good from re-rust. If your not confident with this job farm it out. This operation isn’t for the meek at heart, it can be major surgery depending on what you uncover. Research it. It’s been done many times and is documented.
I dont recommend Fiber glass as a long term solution.
Again this is all just my opinion cuz been-there-done-that and I like to pass along lessons learned.

RetroRanger

heres that thread

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post126648

the doc has outlined what may be the best way to fix it tho

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey All,

Thanks for the responses, Dean and Doc, i defintiely agree with you guys, and will be going with brand new sheet metal for the fix instead of fiberglass.

The really hard part for me is going to be getting to the bottom and covering it with good primer and paint, any tips or tricks? Is there any way i can get to that metal from under the dash area? Or am i just asking for trouble??

Allan R

Tony,
I saw you're interested in doing all new sheet metal. FWIW the Upper Cowl area has a patch panel that's available through Parts Place http://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/ocat...&YearList=1972
keyword: cowl
price 349.00 I'd phone them and ask if this is the piece you're looking for. You should also take the front dash apart to see how badly the rust has penetrated to the dash supports. Sorry to see the extent of the damage. I know first hand how heartwrenching it is to find this and try to stop it.

Re: Is there an easy way to get to the rust area from underneath? NO You pretty much are looking at taking the dash of your car apart. In the long run, you'll be happier with the results. Whether you go with the donor option or new patch panel will be decided by the extent of the damage. Good luck bro!

Here's a pic of my cowl area, it has no rust whatsoever. Sorry it's dirty - I'm in the middle of rebuilding the suspension and steering.

Looking from passenger side.


Head on


Dash support. I'll probably get a chance to clean all this up when I take out my dash next year. You already have your windshield out, so you have a lot of flexibility to work with as far as movement in/out of the front area

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Great! Thanks for the pictures Allan! I need all the reference i can get.

I was looking at the patch panels, i'm going to give them a shout and see what they have. I have a feeling i will need to use some 20 gauge filler either way since it's rusted all the way up to the vent holes..

You call that dirty! I wish my car was that clean lol. Right now it's covered in primer and ready to weld some patch panels in for the fenders as well as hood. (a tree dropped on the car 10 years ago apparently and never got fixed properly.

Here's a before and after shot of what my car looked like 3 years ago when i dragged it out of a field. I'm happy i saved her from getting crushed by the nit-wit previous owner.

507OLDS

I have that whole dash/cowl chunk on the 72 parts car.Some pitting on the cowl part,but definitely a good solid piece.The metal dash section is fine.The other thing with the metal dash section is that guage of metal is thinner than the other metal,and might be a little harder to weld patches on.

Allan R

An afterthought Tony. You should also check the lower cowl area close to where the hinges are. That's a very bad spot for rust on these cars. Mostly because leaves and crap accumulate in the side of the fender. The rust is invasive - its one of the few things in life that doesn't discriminate - it attacks everything. I just blew out the leaves and junk that had built up in my lower fenders. You can't often see how bad it is when the inner liners are there. Mine happen to be out so it was a no brainer. If you do take your's out its really quite easy - about 20 minutes for the PS (just have to take out the charcoal cannister mount), about 45 for the DS (have to take out the battery/ battery tray and unclip the + lead from the fender liner to access the front nuts/bolts. (helps with 2 people doing this). Once you get the liners off, you can see the cowl area really well.

LS fender/cowl - Some leaves still there and very light surface rust starting on lower cowl. That will be gone by Saturday.


RS fender/cowl in very good shape. These fenders have been on the car since 1986


The stuff you can't see is the stuff that will kill your car. I know yours came from the backwoods and you did a lot for it already. Ownership isn't always cheap, and I know you love your car.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey Allan,

Thanks for the heads up, you were absolutely right, the lower cowl/lower fender area was as rough with rust as a piece of 40 grit sandpaper...

There weren't any leaves in the lower areas (because i guess they disintegrated since i bought car 3 years ago and started storing it inside). I agree 100%, ownership is not cheap by any stretch of the imagination, and to be honest, ever since i've been a kid i've wanted this exact car, so i'm willing to spend whatever time it takes to get it back up to where it should be.

Needless to say, i went down to princess auto and bought a 10 pack of those orbital grinder sanding disks. The rust is almost gone! Soon to be painted with Sico/Corrostop paint (it's the stuff that i use on my dad's tractor, holds up a good beating.

So i spent friday night until 4am putting the first basecoat of colour on my car :P It looks alot different not being on gray primer! It's not perfect, but this is also the first car i am painting with a HVLP spray gun. (or any spray gun for that matter.)

Here's a picture taken at 4:15am friday night.



Hey Brian,

Any news on the patch panel for my dash/cowl area? And perhaps a picture so i know which piece you're talking about?

Thanks!

-Tony

Allan R

Lot's of hard work done there, and late hours. Keep up the good work. BTW hope you don't mind but it was hard to keep tilting my head to look at your car, so I cropped the pic and re-orientated it. Is it the lighting or is the trunk looking a tint of green in the middle? I know it was 0400 when you were finishing Now comes the fun part of putting the trim back on. You'll find that if you used several coats of paint, the trunk trim will not want to go back on. Wait till the paint is fully cured then lightly sand down the edge till the trim will slide on.

Then you'll have fun with restoring your tail lights. It's actually not that hard, especially now that there are plastic restoring agents around. Tape carefully, trim with an exacto knife - then light coats. I did mine about 2 1/2 years ago... The top right one is an NOS. Not as nice as the other 3 I did myself

Tom442

Hey Tony, I feel your pain. my 68 lower windshield panel had rusted out and someone and filled the rust holes with bondo...I got this piece from Ausley's Chevelle http://www.chevelle.com/1968-72-Wind...P6259C808.aspx It is $85 I then trimmed it up and fit it to my dash and cowl. primed with zinc weld thru, welded it and put a thin coat of duraglass. Lots of work, but I am happy with how it turned out.
Tom
68442 (still hammering out stainless wheel opening trim)
70 f85

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Tom, That looks great! That's exactly what i'm hoping to do with my car. I might end up ordering that piece. I also picked up some 20Gauge sheet metal because mine is rusted right up to where the vent holes are.

Allan, those headlights of yours look really great! I definitely need to get some work done on mine too. I've still got about a half can of that aluminum spray from my grilles. Hopefully once i sand down the paint and get those trim pieces back in. I can work on the finishing touches.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

On a small embarrasing side note.

Can someone help me with how the heck to get the windshield wiper arms off? It seems there's a clip underneath but it really doesn't want to budge..

Allan R

Tony, try this link https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-71-442-a.html Does it work for you? I couldn't find the little tab on my car. The wiper arm only comes up about 3 inches - not like the new cars. My fingers are too big to fit under the arms to feel for a tab....

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Great! Thanks! I think mine might be seized one just like the guy in that thread. I'm going to shoot a little bit of WD-40 on it when i get home.

More pictures to come!

Allan R

I just got in from the garage. Took a small mirror to look under the wiper arm. I can see where the spring is that attaches the wiper pivot, but there's no 'clip' on my wiper arm. Not sure about this, but I'm guessing this is where the wiper removal tool and the towels come in? I'm not going to take mine off right now. LMK what happens with yours first ok? That post for the 71 wiper arm removal doesn't work for me. I don't get the part about the clip you have to bend back.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Allan, I think it looks something like this. I used my super high-tech paint skills to try to replicate.. heh

Allan R

Tony, that's awesome! You did a great job using the pic to explain it. BTW today I was moving all my parts to the shed so I had to put them into about 30 boxes. Guess what I found? A set of reconditioned (almost new looking) front signal light assemblies - no rust or pitting! Complete from pigtail and connector to lens and screws. I forgot I had them. LMK if yours are too crudded to restore, maybe we can work out something. I won't give them away, but I will be fair about pricing and shipping.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Allan, that sounds great!

I'll finish up painting, take my front assemblies out and grab some pictures and post em' up. Let me know what you think and i'm sure we can definitely figure something out.

Here is a small update on the painting situation (i know this is a dash rust thread, but i figured why not post how the rest of my car is getting Un-Rusted) in the process.

4424me

looks good. good work on the paint job. im not sure if this is correct but i was fighting with my wiper arms as well, tried prying straight up and they slid right off.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Thanks 4424me,

it's going well, it's down to the finishing touches, it's far from perfect but i'm aiming to get it as clean as i can.

The photo before is a bit hazy since i had my finger in front of the camera.

Here's one that came out a bit better.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey All,

I'm still in dire need of a dash piece replacement for my car.

Please anyone let me know if you have any leads or know of anyone that would have a piece!

Thanks and cheers,

Tony

442_Mustang

507Olds posted above that he has a dash/cowl piece available.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey All,

Thanks for the support, I bought the cowl/dash piece off Joe at AzChevs, it looks to be pretty solid and i look forward to welding it in.

Side question, does anyone know the proper colour of the dash/cowl? My dash seems to be a sort of burnt brown colour, and the colour of my current Cowl is Rust. Heh

Allan R

Tony, glad to hear you got the cowl piece. Did you get the pricing you were looking for?

re: cowl color? You mean inside the car or outside? On the outside it should be satin black. On the inside it is actually part of the dash subframe and closely match the color of the A pillar trim. If your dash is brown the cowl will be too. Most of them were just black/black combos. For example, if your interior was white - you got black/black cowl and dash. If you had a blue interior it was blue dash, blue subframe inside.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey Allan, we worked something out for the piece with shipping. He is cutting out only what I need, and that is going to save a fortune in shipping costs.

Satin black it is! I've still got quite a bit left over from other applications, I plan on wire brushing the whole unit to get it done properly. My inside dash is a brown colour that doesn't exactly match the dash but pretty close. I'll see what I can find locally.

Any ideas on what might be a good leveller/filler to smooth out the dash? I expect there will be minor imperfections that will need attention. They have some bondo liquid metal stuff that looks good, I've never tried it though.??

DATNFAMOUSRICAN

Would that piece work for a 72 Cutlass (S) windshield?

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Absolutely! I have a 72 cutlass 's' and so does Allan actually.

I ended up getting a piece from AZ because I was rushed for availability to get one aSAP. Here is a picture of the finished product.



I used my mig 180 amp from Lincoln to weld her in.

2blu442

Nice job Tony! I may need to take some welding lessons from you before I tackle this on my project cars

It looks like you've painted the dash with a gloss paint. You may need to change that to more of a flat finish or the glare on the windshield may be a problem. I'm thinking of a sunny day next summer! John

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Thanks John! Sounds good, and no worries, i can offer tips on welding anytime, most of what i know is just from trial and error and seeing whatever works/looks best.

Here is a look at what the dash looks like with the windshield installed. Actually, the paint 'looks' gloss because i took the picture when it was fresh. It dried to something like a satin finish.

jesseb

I'm tackling this same fix on my car right now. I got a repair piece for a chevelle and trimmed it down to work. I wish the Parts Place had a paper catalog, I would have bought the one that fit right. Good job BTW, looks good! I've got one little piece to make up and mine will be all patched up. I'm douching it with POR 15 all over to keep it from happening again. Good thread

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Cool! Great job, post some pictures when you get a chance. If you're having trouble with something there's a good chance that i have a picture of it.

The welding was really rough on this part. I think the metal is something around 19 or 20 gauge and it's pretty flimsy. So when you're welding, take your time, and do small stitches instead of one long bead. People say you HAVE to use MIG gas to weld thin stuff, but i did it just fine with flux core wire.

oldsguybry

, that's how mine is going to look ... cant wait

jesseb

yeah, it's pretty thin, especially by the speaker grill, i warped mine, took my time even, apparently not enough. once its all said and done, it'll be just fine. if someone dont like it, tough, its mine.

Frank3

I'm doing the same repair .
I got a crack in my windshield last week , and have had a leak that dripped off the rear view mirror all the way back in the '70s when I was little , and called the local glass shop to pull the glass Tuesday , and asked for a day or two before they replaced it so I could fix the leak . I was very surprised to find cowl rot . Up 'till a few years ago this car never sat outside at my Grandmothers , and rarely sits uncovered now .
I also has the rear glass removed to reseal and found the top corners had holes . It seams the factory set the rear glass too low , and gobed sealer around the window which held dirt and trash .
The rear window has never been touched , and this will be the second windshield . The last time sealer was gobed into the hole at the top of the windshield , but it didn't stop the leak .
So I have fixed the windshield and rear window seats , and have been searching for the cowl part , but couldn't find it . I've even looked for a post like this for the past 3 nights . VERY happy it popped up this morning , because I've been detonating on just how I was going to fix it .

oldsguybry

Tony , what I've been doing to keep the lower fender cowls somewhat clean is .... unbolt and pull bottom of fender out a little , also unbolt a few of the inner wheel well bolts in the area also , and bend the inner wheel well out slightly to fit an air nozzle in there to blow crap around . There is a hole on the other side to blow it around from that side too . I have a plan during the time I restore my car . OK , maybe we all won't live that long. I'm gonna put a screen to block the big hole where all the nice little leaves and hellicopter thingys go down and get trapped in the lower cowl area of the fender ( bad design ). I was thinking of just glueing the edge of the screen down , but not sure what to use yet.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey Frank,

I definitely hear ya, i looked for weeks on options on how to fix my cowl. I was almost leaning towards a fiberglass repair, BUT then i figured, i don't EVER want to have to remove my windshield again to do the same darn job.

Ended up getting a cowl cut out from a 71 i think and it fit perfectly.

Eric (jensenracing) said that he had a cowl also when i was buying one, maybe drop him a line.