Ok, someone on this site with more knowledge than me mentioned they thought my taillights may be for a Cutlass and not a 442. I went to the shop yesterday and the gray outline in the middle of the taillights is gray just like as in the image below, not silver, not red. He thought since I have a 442 they should be all red. Can anyone confirm this - I forgot to check the assembly manual at the shop last night. They are in pretty nice condition but if they should be all red all I really have to do is carefully remove the gray or should I not do that and find an all red pair.

[IMG]file:///Users/Steven/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]

 

I believe the tail light lenses for the 1970 Cutlass, Cutlass S and 442 were all red with silver side trim. The tail light lenses for the 1970 Cutlass Supreme had the stainless molding trim on the lense with silver side trim. There is also a variation of the 1970 tail light lense for the 1970 Rallye 350 (black side trim instead of silver side trim) that also has a silver band painted on the ridge around the perimeter of the lense.

 

I believe the W-30 cars did not have the silver stripe on the tail light lenses, just the silver sides. I once painted a set of lenses for my W-30 with the stripe only to have to remove it again because it was incorrect. Live and learn.

 

Going along with Randy my 1970 lenses are red with the silver sides. No stainless trim on the center rectangle. John

 

thanks, that seems to be the general consensus and even Year One on their website depicts the 442 taillights with no thin silver trim line. Funny thing I did a search on 442s on ebay and Hemming's and I saw 442s with all kinds of variations, even saw one that had the driver side taillights with the silver trim and the passenger ones without

 

Yes, some people will trade them out because they like the looks of the Supreme tail lights over the 4-4-2 and Cutlass tail lights. And, you have to admit, the stainless trim does make them look a bit fancier than the plain ones. It all depends on what you want. Personally, I do mine the way they came from the factory, although I did buy a set of Supreme tail lights for my '69 4-4-2 in case I ever wanted to use them......!
Randy C.

 

You may or may not have the right taillights but you sure have a nice car.

 

Steven

As you have seen from your inquirery.... Most people don't know there were 4 tail light lenses in 1970 nor which one was used on each model;


To my knowledge there were 4 different tail light lenses offered in 1970 a bodies


1) 442 lens, gray sides, the ridge/lip in the lens as well as the lens is red

2) Cutlass and I believe f85, gray sides and that ridge/lip is painted
gray as the sides

3) Cutlass Supreme, gray sides and that ridge/lip has a chrome cover
over it

4) Ralley 350, black sides and that ridge/lip is again is red. or is it painted gray

 

thanks for the info - and the compliment -
actually I think the tailights are original and thus make the car a one of one its now priceless

 

I have to agree. It looks so good that I forgot why I was looking at it!

 

i'm 90% sure my car came with the silver-trimmed lenses. Either that was a factory anomaly or it's because the convertible was based on the Cutlass Supreme trim level.

 

Steven - Your car is all wrong, and I haven't even seen the inside yet. I'll take it off your hands so you won't have to worry about it anymore.

For starters, I can tell you've got the wrong tire pressure and your tail light bulbs aren't factory. PM me and we'll work out a deal. Don't expect much though. It hurts my eyes just looking at it.

 

wow, I wonder, I'll start looking at some convertible 442s, either way no big deal to me but just goes to show the discrepancies and how we are always learning about these cars

 

Thanks, and yes the rear tires are a little low - good eye! The car is still in the shop, hopefully I'll have it this spring, the paint job is great but the photo even makes the bumper look better than it is. It is an original bumper never re-chromed (from what I can tell) I can't remember if it looks that good for real or the photo just makes it pop

 

Why isn't there some document floating around that shows what was installed at the factory? Once again, Olds guys lose.

Personally, I like the trimmed lenses. But ya gotta admit that the reasoning for the Cutlass Supreme/4-4-2 ragtop makes sense, although that's not to say it's right.

 

Come on Diego, we don't lose here. Just haven't been looking in the right places. I think the Product Information Manual for '70 will spell it out, but I don't (yet) have one. The parts book from '76 shows the 4 different lens and their applications.

 

Well, for other brands, this kind of stuff is much more common.

 

and my 70 assembly manual (PIM) does show that as well, it just doesn't show an image of the outside view - it does not differentiate between convertibles and hardtops just says 4400 uses a different number but that number was blurry. I'm leaning towards the fact that my taillights were either changed or maybe even the whole bumper, maybe that's why it looks so good after all these years.

 

Interesting topic. Super nice car.

 

someone pointed this car out on ebay, many of the convertibles I have seen do have the gray highlight but most of the hardtop 442s don't

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oldsm...5fTrucks#v4-34

 

A good reason not to trust what you see. Especially Ebay. Even very expensive restorations. So much time has passed now that some of the detail of what is correct has been lost to too many. And this is just a small example.

Unfortunately, Ebay gives most of us the largest exposure to any given year/model, etc. Yet Ebay is a dumping ground for cars, not a display of original and/or correct cars.

 

Very nice car, I like the color. Is it the original color, looks like twilight blue? Im going to be painting my 69 soon. Original color was trophy blue, but I might want to brighten it up a bit. Rob

 

I agree, the white and blue combination looks super. I did some digging and found my copy of Canada Track and Traffic magazine from Feb. 1970 and they did a road impressions article on a base 442. There is a close-up picture of the tail lights and they do not have any silver stripe.

 

Cutlass and 442 lenses in 1970 are red lenses with silver side trim.

Cutlass Supreme lenses has silver side trim and stainless molding.

BTW your car is drop dead gorgeous. More pics please.

 

thanks for the compliments, yes it is Twighlight Blue code 28 for 1970

 

Not according to the parts books.
I haven't dug into this a much yet, but according to the parts books, the 442s and the Cutlass Supremes each have exclusive lens. That implies the the 442s are plain, the Cutlass Supremes are stainless trimmed, and the others are painted.

 

Kurt,
I have 3 part numbers listed for 1970
For the 3100, 3200, 3500, 3600 (f85 and Cutlass 2/4 doors) and Rallye 350 the part number for all 4 lenses is Grp 2.682 #5964137 I understand from reading that the Rally 350 lenses would be blacked out sides.
The 4200 series (Supreme) is listed as Grp 2.682 #5964138
The 4400 series (442) is listed as Grp 2.682 #5964099

Is this what you have too?

It appears there are 3 different lens styles to choose from. Unfortunately, the parts book doesn't provide pictures or specific descriptions that tell the differences between the lenses. On a positive note, since all lenses are the same, there is no mistake made putting any one lens in any slot; unlike the 71 and 72 models where the lenses are different sizes on the top and bottom.

 

Go back to post #4 and you can see exactly what I have. 4, including part 5964352 for the Rally 350. So aside from the Rally 350s, there are 3. Knowing that there are:
1. plain red ones
2. ones with painted trim "rings"
3. and ones with stainless trim rings,
I think it is pretty easy to figure out which ones are which from there.

 

thanks, I guess it makes some sense to use the guidelines in the parts book and the assembly manual and stick with 4400 models have all red.

 

We need to guard against "truth decay", and be careful of our sources of information.

 

Okay, Steven, you started this. Now why do the parts book say "2" Rally 350 lens and "4" of the others? (No, I don't know the answer, I'm asking!)

 

yeah, I noticed that (probably a typo) and I see that the inner lens' are the same for all F-85s and it does list all 4 designs but the PIM only shows three as in this image

[IMG]file:///Users/Steven/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///Users/Steven/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG]

 

Like Diego said, 442 convertibles were assembled with Supreme trim pieces and quarter panels.

442 Convetibles actually had the C/S emblem on the door panels...and maybe the assembly line was stocked with Supreme quarters and Supreme lenses together to put the convertibles together

So maybe 442 convertibles also used Supreme lenses while the hardtops didn't.

 

oh no don't start me down that path - UGH!!! I have noticed that as well with the door panel emblems, mine has the rocket emblem, many 442 convertibles I have seen have the rocket emblem but I have seen many with the C/S as well. I assumed the C/S was the incorrect emblem.

 

The C/S items you mention are because the 442 converts were basically C/S, and had to have some C/S items as there were not any *non* C/S items to use. Not the case with the lens. I see no indication that anything other than the "C/S only" items were used. The lenses were quite independent.

 

W - true that convertibles needed to be assembled with Supreme (notchback) quarters but that isn't the case with door panels. They assembled the convertibles with C/S door panels.

My money's on an assembly line process where the 442 quarters AND lenses came from the Supreme parts bins.

The only 442 convertible trim piece I never say any evidence of it being Supreme is the glovebox door, and this is because someone buying a more expensive and showy 442 wouldn't want "Cutlass Supreme" so obviously displayed. But Olds could get away with C/S on the door panels.

 

So Kurt, may I ask when you have time to look up the door panel emblem in your parts book. I have to take my door panels off anyway and if I should be changing the rocket emblem to the C/S now would be the time I guess darn.

 

As I said earlier, this is my first dive into this situation. And I'm not going to presume or conclude (myself) anything at this point. I'm just gathering and reporting information.
Are the 442 hardtop and C/S convertible door panels *exactly* the same except for the emblems?
Not saying it can't happen, but it is a highly unlikely faux paus to have a C/S emblem anywhere on a 442 as the C/S is a separate model. It is conjecture that they could get away with it on the doors and not the glovebox. Frankly, I don't see where that is any less obvious.

 

The 1970 Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupe and the Cutlass Supreme & 442 Holiday convertibles use the same door panels

The Cutlass S, 442 Sports coupe & Holiday coupe use the other style

I have been told that although the Cutlass convertible and the 442 convertible use the same door panels they use different emblems

 

Kurt - the glove box on Supremes reads Cutlass Supreme in script while the door panels on 442 convertibles abd Supreme hardtops reads C/S, ,which to me is far more subtle and less likely to bother a buyer in 1970.

But who knows. I was wearing diapers at the time.