O's_Car

Yesterday was a happy day for me: I picked up a 455 BBO. It came out of a ’75 Delta 88 with just over 100k miles, and came with all the accessories and brackets (see pictures below). It was already removed from the car, but the seller was able to start it up and run it for a short time on the hoist: ran smooth with no obvious issues. It’s an “Fa” block with “J” heads (yeah, I know…); the VIN derivative stamping reads 35M######. Couldn’t get the TH400 that was mated to it – that was already spoken for. Should make for a good rebuild project: nothing extreme, just “spirited” street use. My current plan is to swap it for the 350 SBO in my ’70 Cutlass S, but that’s subject to change. I’ll be posting lots of questions in the near future, but today I wanted to share the joy!

csstrux

Is that crank bored for a manual? kewwell!

Run to Rund

does the block has the boss for a clutch z bar? If you are going automatic, it doesn't matter. J heads aren't great, but are serviceable and can be ported. These engines are getting hard to find, so it was a good day for you.

Chaney3000

Great pick up. Keep us posted on the progress.

O's_Car

To answer the questions above, yes the crank end is bored but there isn’t a snap ring groove like is shown in the shop manual. As for the clutch z-bar boss, I’m a novice at this so I don’t know where it’s located or what it looks like (didn’t find it in the shop manual). The engine will be used with an automatic trans, so I guess I’m ok for now…

I’ve already got a ton of questions about the various emission/combustion systems on this engine and what happens to them if I install aftermarket parts (like a new intake, carb, headers, or cylinder heads). This thing’s got vacuum lines all over the place, EGR components, multiple PCV lines, a hot air duct between the exhaust and the air cleaner, plus other unknown hoses and lines that were just snipped off when the previous owner pulled it from his car. I’m going to spend some time with the shop manual to figure out what these things are, then I’ll be back with some (hopefully) intelligent questions.

O's_Car

After 10 months of delays, I finally got to work on this 455. Spent the last few days tearing it down, taking lots of pictures along the way and documenting every last piece. The biggest difficulties so far were getting the exhaust pipes off (flange bolts are stuck tight in the manifolds, bolt heads are rounded over) and getting the oil filler tube off (twisted it out with a pipe wrench). Here are a few of pictures of where I'm at today.

I'll update as I move along, and I'll have some questions for the experts too...

Oldsguy

Wow. A long wait! I bet it is worth it though. Congratulations on getting into it finally!

J-(Chicago)

Best way to get a filler tube out is to tap it left and right with a wooden mallet a few times. Should loosen right up.

O's_Car

Got the cylinder heads off today. Pretty grimey in there; lots of deposits on the valves as well. Some of the pistons were a bit oily on top - wonder if the engine was burning a little oil in its final days? Looks like coolant was leaking into #1 cylinder (hope it's just the gasket...).

svnt442

Good deal man. Gotta love those soup bowl pistons.

Have fun with it. As far as all the vacuum line that are on it go you probably won't need most of them. Ditch the EGR. Are you hooking up the TCS? If so then you need a 70 shop manual (or have someone with access to one ) for reference pics.

If yes to the TCS then you'll need a working vacuum T for it. The one from the 350 (if it works) should swap over.
You'll find that the dist vacuum should be routed there per the manual.

You don't need to run the TCS. I'd guess that most guys don't. It just all depends.

O's_Car

After searching thru many threads on this site and seeing what others have done, I concluded I could eliminate much of the "excess plumbing" that was on this engine. I'm still documenting everything and saving all the pieces just in case, but I'll be taking a minimalist approach with the rebuild.

I actually bought 2 shop manuals: a '70 for the original car/engine and a '75 for the 455 (the latter really helped me identify all that plumbing). Best money I've spent on this project was those books (along with the body and assembly manuals).

citcapp

Research your machine shops and find a good one, its key to getting a good rebuild. Keep us posted on your build.

Are you going to upgrade the engine with new higher compression pistons (if you have to have it bored), different cam, intake, carb, head work? Just curious

O's_Car

I've been checking out machine shops here in Wichita - they all have limited experience with Oldsmobiles, but a few come recommended by fellow car guys. I'll coordinate with the shop to finalize the configuration, but I was planning on improving everything including pistons, cam, intake, heads, headers, etc. It's probably overkill for my purposes, but I've got my heart set on Edelbrock heads and intake.

I found something interesting today as I continued the teardown. I noticed that the lifters were not centered on the cam lobes, they were all riding a little forward of center. I grabbed the timing gear and gave it a little tug - the camshaft has about 3/16 inch play fore-aft! If I pull it forward about half that amount the lobes fall right in line with the lifters. I'll have to see how to eliminate that on the rebuild.

There was a little bit of coolant in the oil pan when I removed it, maybe that jives with the apparent leak in #1 cylinder I mentioned earlier. Again, I hope it's just the gasket...

citcapp

Check out my build thread, I used the edelbrock heads, performer manifold, keith black pistons, cat rods. comp cam roller cam, lifters, rockers. Very fast and runs on pump 95 octane gas

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...gine-swap.html

O's_Car

I finally got the engine disassembled. Didn't have any real difficulties and didn't find any issues except what I noted earlier. The bearing surfaces and cylinder walls all looked decent (no scoring). I'll definitely be getting new pistons: I didn't catch the first one when I pushed it out of the block - it fell to the ground and broke the skirt tab off! No big loss, I was planning on higher CR pistons anyway.

There are a few details I'd like some help with before I move on:

1) Should I remove the cam bearings from the block (and how), or can I leave that for the machine shop? I plan on having them install new cam bearings.

2) I want to remove all the oil gallery plugs before sending the block to the shop. The rear plug with the drilled pin-hole is located behind a pressed-in cap - how do I get that out?

3) I plan on having the block decks surfaced (measured +/-0.025" clearance at all 8 pistons), but those head alignment dowels are in the way. Should I remove them (and how), or should I leave that for the machine shop?

4) There are alignment dowels on the front face of the block (at the timing cover interface). Can those be left in place or should they be removed before going to the shop? Same question for the threaded stud used to attach the fuel pump.

5) How do I get that oil dipstick guide tube out of the block? It looks like I'll crush it if I try to pull it out with pliers or push it through with a hammer.

I'd like to know how other folks have dealt with these details.

citcapp

My 2 cents. Let the machine shop do 1 through 5. Thats what I did with mine. Unless you have all of the right tools its just as easy to let the machine shop install the new cam bearings and gallery plugs. The rest you can do yourself if you like or have them install and degree the cam as well.

O's_Car

Thanks for the input Pat. I definitely don't have all the tools so I was hoping to let the machine shop handle those details. Just looking for a little confirmation I guess. Thanks also for the reference to your previous build thread. Good info there, especially the summary build sheet. Gives me things to think about...

For what it's worth, I did get the dipstick guide tube out - just used a rubber mallet and a block of wood to tap it out of it's hole. A shot of WD-40 in the hole the night before seemed to loosen it up.

Time to go visit with my local machinist and see if he's worthy of an Oldsmobile!

O's_Car

Took the engine to the machine shop today! Block, heads, intake, crank, pistons, it's all there. Found a place that's worked on Oldsmobiles and seems willing to work with me on the details. Don't yet know how long the work will take or what it will cost, but at least I'm on their to-do list. Will be going back soon to work out all the details and get a cost estimate.

442_Mustang

Congrats on the sweet score. I 'm into reading about the engine builds. When you fire it for the first time, My advice is to have it dynoed. I had my last engine dynoed and I'd never break one in in the car again. They set the timing, jet it, curve the distributor, and will experiment with carbs and spacers for you. I installed mine in my car knowing it don't leak, runs great, and the only thing I had to do was adjust the idle. Well worth the 250.00. Just my opinion.

O's_Car

I haven't forgotten about this thread, it's just that this project is very slow-paced! It's been almost 3 months since I took my engine to the shop, now they're finally getting to work on it. Over those months I spent a lot of time talking with the shop owner, and I think we've got a good plan for this rebuild. Much of that plan is based on information I gathered from this forum, so I want to include a "thank you" to all the contributors out there.

As for my engine, all the parts have been cleaned and inspected, and everything's in good shape. Today the builder was making a list of parts to order, particularly the pistons (so he can bore the cylinders). He's very particular about camshafts, so instead of buying an off-the-shelf part he reground the original cam to a new profile (268 duration, .484 lift). I decided not to go with the Edelbrock heads, so he'll be doing a little work on the original J-heads. Still going with the Edelbrock Performer intake. I'll update more as it happens, hopefully sooner than another 3 months!

O's_Car

Got some visible progress on my engine. The cylinders have been bored .030 oversize. It took a while to get the pistons - we couldn't find the SpeedPro ZL2323F forged pistons we originally wanted. Apparently they're not currently making them in the .030 OS? Nobody had them in stock, so we went with the Keith Black hypereutectics instead. Works for my application, and they were less expensive than some of the other options. The builder has also surfaced the cylinder heads (block and exhaust faces).

Warhead

Let me know if you still want a set of the 2323's, +.030
I have an unused, new set of the original TRW's in that size.
$220, shipped, Paypal
These will require more skirt clearance, like .004 or more.
You will do fine with the J heads.
Jim

Texas Jim

So far so good. W/ the exception of the coolant in the one cylinder which was evident on the piston top, the engine looked exceptionally clean. The area under the intake looked like you had cleaned it out, I know that you hadn't. Seems like you got one that was well maintained, oil changed regularly and a quality brand oil used. Other-wise you'd have seen alot of sludge build-up. Point is that you started out w/ a good engine to rebuild. And when you have the engine finished and running like it should, no one will have a thing to say except the voicing of complements. I did a ford 351W years back, '94 or '95, that took me about 3 1/2 months to get back together. No one had a thing to say as it ran like a champ right from the time I pulled it out onto the street.
Keep up the good work and again, don't worry about the time it takes. Patience is a virtue. You're doing great. And I know that 455 will be a great time in that Cutlass. Best of luck.

O's_Car

Warhead: Thanks for offering the TRW pistons, but we have the KBs in hand now. I didn't think to check here first...

Texas Jim: Thanks for the encouragement! Although I'm not really in a hurry to get the engine back, I am a little giddy about seeing the work start. Fortunately the builder has a lot of patience with me stopping in every week and asking "what's new with my engine?".

Texas Jim

IMO, the best part of it all is "the build." It's actually all over once you get it running well, although you then get to reap what you've sown, which is why I say, "take your time, do it right." LOL.

big mean

What machine shop is doing the work in Wichita? It is always nice to know there is a shop that works on Olds so close to home.

Gustav455

Yeah i live right here in emporia kansas. Theres only one machine shop here, hes good. He told me that my 455 was the first one he worked on for a long time. I can believe it because Im the second owner of a running 455 Oldsmobile in this town. I havent seen any other ones. Only me and a guy named Big John has them.

O's_Car

The name of the shop is Chet Wilson Engine Service, the owner is Jerry Wilson (Chet's son). He's worked on all makes of engines and done a lot of racing engines, including a couple of Olds dragsters. He started out working with his dad on midget cars in the 1960s and he still does some vintage midget car racing on the side. He doesn't specialize in Oldsmobiles, but he's done enough of them in both racing and street forms to know what they need to run well.

Gustav455

sweet thanks, i might start taking my engines there. someone i feel that knows olds a little better and proberly for the same price im paying here. also good to know theres someone that lives pretty close to me with an olds

O's_Car

Things are coming together on my engine now. All the new parts have arrived and the final machining is under way. The crank has been balanced and is ready for installation. The cylinders have been honed to tolerance and the block has been decked. The heads are being cut for new valves and then the valve pockets will get some work. The builder intends to be finished with it by late this week or early next.

Here are most of the details on this rebuild:

Pistons: Keith Black KB277-030 Hypereutectic, 15cc dish
Rings: Hastings 2M-661-030 Moly
Rods: Original; reconditioned
Cam: Original; reground (216 @ 0.050, 0.484 lift)
Crank: Original; balanced, polished, oil holes chamfered
Balancer: PowerBond PB1147-N
Intake: Edelbrock 2151 Performer Olds 455
Heads: Original J-heads; pocket-ported, new valvetrain
Intake Valves: SBI 01002 (2.072 in.)
Exhaust Valves: SBI 01210 (1.680 in.)
Lifters: Sealed Power HT951B
Pushrods: Comp 7845-16
Rockers: Harland Sharp S50026A (pedestal mount)
Timing Set: Engine Pro 08-1113 (double roller)
Oil Pump: Melling M-22F (standard volume)
Oil Pickup: Melling 22-FS
Intermediate Shaft: Melling IS-22F
Oil Pan: Original
Cam Bearings: Clevite SH-1354S
Rod Bearings: Clevite CB-542P10
Main Bearings: Clevite MS-804P
Intake Gasket: Fel-Pro 1356
Gasket Set: Sealed Power 260-1008
Rear Main Seal: Mr. Gasket 1965
Freeze Plugs: Melling MPE-124R
Rod Bolts: ARP 185-6001
Head Bolts: ARP 180-3600
Balancer Bolt: ARP 180-2501

cutlassefi

Hard to believe an independent shop still grinds their own camshafts. You'll need to double check rocker arm geometry and maybe get a custom pushrod cuz he just changed the base circle of that cam more than just a little. I hope you didn't really want to hear that cam cuz you probably won't with only 216 @ .050 duration in Big Block.

O's_Car

Yep, he's got a nice setup for grinding cams. He's been doing it a long time and I think he gets a lot of enjoyment out of it. Seems like he's usually got one in work - he caters to many of the local racers. And he is on top of the geometry changes - we've already talked about measuring for new pushrods along with other valvetrain details. The cam is intended to provide a smooth idle, just a light lope over stock. For the street cruising I plan to do it should be just about right.

O's_Car

A few pics of the engine mid-way thru reassembly. I think the Bill Hirsch engine paint looks pretty good. Tried to get a view of the reworked valve pockets too.

O's_Car

The latest pics. Just waiting on new pushrods to finish it up.

O's_Car

Brought the engine back from the shop today (exactly 6 months from the day I took it in). Still have to install some external details, but the major stuff is done. Now all I have to do is fix up the car it's going in! That'll be the subject of another thread...

507OLDS

I've been using the Bill Hirsch engine paint since the beginning.I get the quart brush-on.It doesn't leave any brush marks,& is VERY durable.After 10yrs,it is just starting to discolor over the center exhaust ports.
I would strongly suggest that you do not pick that engine up with that plate mounted to the intake.It would be OK if it were an iron intake,but an engine of that weight,& an aluminum intake is not good.I've seen the top half of an intake break off,& you can guess where the engine went.

citcapp

Looks sweet, now you have added motivation to get the car done

Jamesbo

X 2 I agree with 507 OLDS,
That's scarry.

Sweet look'in engine keep us posted

Eddie Hansen

I like how he ported where the oil pump attaches sweet..

are you using stock covers for the harlan rockers? going with the same rockers on my build, wanted to use stock covers but was told NO LOL... yours look taller then stock but very stock looking NICE!!!!!!!!! whose are they?

O's_Car

Actually, I did that myself . I also smoothed out the oil return paths in the block. Read about that in a couple of reference books recommended on this site.

The valve covers are stock notched ones I bought off of another user here, crazy'boutOlds I believe. The rocker arms did interfere with them originally, but my engine builder cut out the baffles inside the covers and that left just enough clearance (he did weld back in the part of the baffles right under the openings). He recommend caution when I first start the engine - after the lifters fill with oil they may push the rockers out a little farther and cause interference again. A thicker (or doubled up) valve cover gasket will be needed then.

Incidentally, those are not the stud mount Harland Sharp rocker arms, they're the pedestal mount ones. I think the different mounting makes the assembly a little less tall than the stud mounts (no polylocks), making it possible to use stock (albeit modified) valve covers. I think the stud mount rockers necessitate taller valve covers.