Would like some information, and advice on a 455 build. Bought a 70 Toronado 455 core, would like to change the valve angles to 45 degrees and do some work on the heads, can anyone recomend good valves for this? My plan was to fill in the heat cross over and weld up the Ex divider, run the factory intake and Q-jet, around a 230@.050 hyd cam, W30 blueprint on the short block, any advice would be welcomed.

 

I assume you mean the lifter bank angle as some were 39 and some were 45. All valve angles are 6 degrees. Regardless, why would you want to change the lifter bank angle from 39? There is no good reason to do so not to mention it isn't possible.

First and foremost, what are your goals and budget for this engine? Are you planning to run headers? If not welding up the exhaust divider won't help anything.

 

Thanks, we do plan to run headers. I would like to change the valve seat angles to 45degrees. This engine is for a retired gentelman that stops by and talks about his younger days when he raced, one day I asked him, why dont you race now, your retired, lets get you back to the track, he talked about it with his wife and said lets do it, makes sense to me.

 

Ah, 45 degree valve seat angle, that makes a little more sense. Still it depends on how fast he wants to go and what he is willing to spend. I could tell you how to build a 12, 11, 10 or 9 second engine. They will all be quite different in both components and cost.

 

I would like see his convertible 442 run in the 12s, driven to the track, I think we can keep it inexpensive, but he will do what it takes.

 

That one is easy and relatively inexpensive to accomplish. My '65 used to run 12.20's-12.30's with the following:

455
TRW L2323 pistons
stock reworked rods w/ARP bolts
stock cast crank .010/.010
ARP main studs
stock iron heads ported to flow 265cfm w 2.07/1.68 valves
230/238 @ .050 duration .520/.540 lift hyd. cam
Edelbrock Performer intake
850 Holley DP
1-3/4" Hooker headers
TH400 trans w/2200 stall TCI converter
3.55 gears
275/60 MT drag radials
all factory stock suspension w/ no-hop bars

 

Thanks! I was thinking the same thing, but he does race in Denver, and I would like to stay with a high gear.

 

It looks like my core came with E heads, anyone care to give me a run down on those heads?

 

E heads are 70 455 heads and good heads to work with. A nice port polish job will really wake them up. If you live around CT or would like to ship I do porting on the side and can discuss several option with you. PM me if interested. I can also rebuild the heads with new seat, guides and 3-4 angle valve job.

 

Thanks! What kind of valve job would you recommend?

 

A good 3 angle on a serdi would be sufficient.

 

Ill PM you my number and we can discuss further

 

www.mjproformance.com

This is who I recommend for both head porting and parts.

 

Thanks, I think Im going to tackle the porting myself to keep costs down. Any valve part numbers would be helpful, 45 angle. The type of engine I plan to build, anyone have any HP numbers for this type of build? Thanks

 

Check out the builds in this forum for ideas.
http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/...e19ad44b4c3758
I don't think there is a worry about the 30 vs 45 degree intake seat for a mild build like you are describing. Stock valves with home pocket blending will really wake it up. Since they are Toro heads, they should already have the 2.07" intake. I recently had a set of heads done. I'm on a tight-wad budget, so I had the shop buy cheap replacement valves ($70) that have inconsistent stems. If you buy new valves, I think you'd be better off buying something American made in the $200 range. I have no educated guess on HP numbers, but I'd say about low 400's depending on your tuning.

 

Thanks for the great information! I think it will be either a Manley or Ferrea valve that I use, we will dyno test the engine, hopefully it will run 12s @ 10,000 feet DA with a 3.42 gear, I look forward to the build.

 

To answer your original question.

Buy a set of .100" longer than stock SBC 2.10" intake and 1.625" if you have the two barrel heads. They will have 45 degree seats and just have ever is doing the valve job, grind 45 degree seats. The two barrel heads have 45 degree seats on the exhuast already, so only the intake seats will need new angles ground in. The .100" longer than stock SBC valves will give enough installed height to run a cam with lift up to .680" lift.

If you have heads with 2.07" intake valves and 1.68" exhaust valves, you can do the same as describable above on the intakes but you'll have to talk to a valve manufacture to see what they can make you for the exhaust.

 

Thats the information I needed, thanks.

 

You have the "E" heads which will have the 2.07 & 1.62 valves. If they have never been cut, you can change the stock valves to 45* with no problem.
If you do the port work yourself, leave the floors alone, concentrate on the valve pockets and raise the roof of the ports. Do some tear drop work to the valve guides. What "SBOrule" said is a great idea of the bigger valves.

If you use the "speedpro/TRW" pistons, be sure to use .005 piston to wall clearance.
Get with one of the cam venders and tell them what you have and what you want to do, to pick the right cam.

Gene

 

Thanks, I will post flow numbers stock then after work, I was real careful to buy a virgin core that no one had a chance to put their spin on the machine work, factory Olds, so I should have somthing to work with. I like the idea of a 2.100 intake valve, but would like to keep valve lift to no more than .580 @ the valve. Any opinions on a lightened speedpro hyperutectic piston?

 

Keith black makes a good hypereutectic piston, I believe it's a KB 277.

SBO- why are you telling him to use +.100 SBC valves? Does he really need to go to .680 lift? Plus you potentially change the rocket geometry a bunch. Those are approx 5.010 tall, that's totally unnecessary. And you want him to have exhaust valves made for him? Again unnecessary.

I can get you a spring setup to take .600+ lift even with the stock 1.670-1.700 installed height if you want. You don't need to use a SBC valve. At the very least get a set of +.100 Olds/Edelbrock valves from SI. They're available in stock head diameters as well as 1.71 exhausts and 2.125 intakes. Or you can even use Pontiac valves. They come in a 2.11 intake and 1.66 exhaust and are about .170 taller than the stock length Olds valve, not over .300 taller like a +.100 SBC valve.

Christ, more bad info. Whatever.

In addition you'll want to make sure the short side radius has been addressed as well.

 

Definitely get forged pistons, not hyper. Aftermarket rods are almost as cheap as rebuilding stock rods with ARP bolts. Valve seat angles are stock 30 deg. with 2.07" valves and changing to 45 deg. is a very minor improvement, imo. I wouldn't bother. Denver is tougher to get the performance due to altitude. Even Vegas where I race, 2100 ft. costs 3 tenths or more vs. sea level. You will be at 5800 ft at Bandimere. Also, NHRA requires a roll bar if a convertible runs 13.49 or faster.

 

Your porting quality and valve combo will have an effect on the output for sure.

 

Curious, is there an accurate formula for altitude? I run at 1650 feet.

 

What formula are you looking for? How weather changes altitude, horsepower or what? I like to use adjusted altitude to determine dial-ins.

 

Wallace Racing has quite a few calculators, I believe there is one to adjust ET for altitude etc. Check it out:

http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm

 

Here is the one I use, about the same as Wallace.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/index.html#jcalc

 

This calculator is right on the money.

 

Run to rund you bring up a good point on the roll bar. When you consider filling the cross over, welding up the divider, it makes sense to me to spend some time developing the valve job along with the port, and I will let the forum know what I found, and then design a cam around the flow curve. I do want the car to run atleast in the 12s @ Denver with a 3.08 or 3.42 gear, I think that should be able to be done.

 

I got myself a set of G heads to experiment on, I forgot just how bad those ports look, Its hard to believe they could flow 250 CFM.

 

would you guys recommend this setup for a 455 from 1970 toronado GT too? (different cam #400165 than stock toronados from 1970 and E heads)

..except the TH400

any chance to keep the stock intake and carb then?

 

I plan to run the 70 Toronado intake and carb on my build, stay tuned for the dyno test.

 

Flowed my small valve virgin G heads today, 28 inches, 4.155 bore, .200/122 .300/172 .400/196 .500/209 .550/215 .600/220 .650/223 .700/226. Installed a 45 degree 2.07 valve with some porting, .200/137 .300/202 .400/237 .500/252 .550/257 .600/259 .650/261 .700/265. Flow @ peak lift was 275, not exactly good. I need to investigate the 30 degree valve seat next. I can see this engine making 450-460 HP @ 29.92 60 degree dry air, which means I will have about 330 HP to work with at my elevation.

 

You'll pick up some flow on the lower lifts but I'll bet it'll kill it up top.
Unless you plan on using a low lift cam (under .450) I'd stick with the 45 degree seat.
With those ported numbers you'll make 450hp with the right combo. And if you think the car will stay at that elevation then you could always bump the compression to get some of the loss back.

Jmo.

 

Im sure theres more there, A 2.100 valve would probably be in order, that metal is hard.

 

Heres some pictures from the test.