nj_cutlass72

OK, so I got my 455 in my garage and I was slowly taking it apart, everything was going well until I ran into a few bolts..

This one bolt is very rusted, I am running out of ideas how to get it out. I tried, WD40, some rust penetrator and finally I bought a torch to heat it up.. no luck...

Now the f'd up thing is the socket that I used rounded the edges of the bolt, so there's no grip...

what should I do next?

your input is appreciated in advance!

MDchanic

1. NEVER use a 12-pointed socket on a rusted fastener.
   6-point only. Makes a big difference.
2. If the socket fits loosely, use the next smallest size.
   The next smallest size is probably metric.
   That's okay. The car will forgive you.
3. Do not waste your time with a propane torch for heat.
   Might as well fart on it.
   MAPP gas at a bare minimum for EASY fasteners.
   Oxy-Acetylene (or oxy-MAPP) is really the only way to go.
   Heat it dull red, but don't melt it. Heat the NUT, not the BOLT.
   There is a cheap ($30-$40) Bernz-O-Matic oxy-MAPP torch set that uses tanks the same size as that propane torch you've got there. It is small, and nearly useless, and burns up $10 oxygen tanks like crazy, but is good for heating rusted fasteners if you can't find a real torch at a yard sale.
4. When loosening Olds exhaust manifold bolts, heat the CYLINDER HEAD where the bolt is (you can get to both sides), but heat fairly slowly, carefully, and evenly - you don't want to crack the head.

- Eric

Redog

Do you have a "bolt out" set?

I doubt you want to cut the bolt head off

compedgemarine

if you can easily cut the bolt head go ahead. after you pry the manifold off the remaining stud you can grab the bolt with vise grips or weld on a nut to use a wrench. the other option is a grip socket for striped bolt heads. craftsman makes a set that is not too expensive. I had a similar problem and used the craftsman socket and it locked onto the bolt head tight enough that an impact took the bolt loose.

Paladin31

dumb question>>but did you heat up the metal around the bolt, or heat up the bolt? cuz if you apply heat to bolt directly it just expands tighter in the hole. You can also pick up somenut extractors sears has them not too expensive. Or do it old school, with a ***** punch & hammer, back it out by driving the punch into the bolts head backwards out tap by tap.

Lady72nRob71

Since these are exhaust manifold bolts, the bolt head size could have shrunk due to rusting and oxidation. I just checked one of mine and it is between a 9/16 and 1/2!
I had the same issue with the choke stove bolts.

Since the head is rounded now, you could try to hammer on a socket that is a tad smaller. Experiment to find the right size and your choice could easily be a metric one. This is how I got my choke stove bolt out.
If you cannot find a size, you could always reshape the bolt head with a dremel until you find one that will hammer on. Had to do that once before...

If you get one to fit tightly, an impact wrench might break it loose.

67 Cutlass Freak

Here's my thoughts on your problem:
That little pidley propane torch isn't going to do squat. You need oxy/ accetaline. You should be heating the cylinder head where the threads are, to expand that metal. Do not heat the bolt. You really need to use a good quality 6 point socket to avoid rounding the head of the bolt. I have a set of Metric and SAE Snap On sockets, that I keep like virgins, just for this type of problem. Now that the head is stripped, you have a couple options. Tool vendors sell extractors that you can pound on. They are spiraled in the direction of loosening. They work well. I think Sears sells them even. You shoud use a flat punch, and a BFH, to hit the head of the bolt to jar it. This does help. If none of this works you can cut the head off the bolt or grind it off with a die grinder. Then you can work the manifold off and use a stud extractor on what's left of the bolt. Heat is your friend, you just don't have enough. We have an electric thermal conductor tool at my shop that works well but it's pretty expensive. I have also had some success using an air hammer with a chissel bit on stripped bolt heads. Be careful not to chissel a hole in the manifold. Good luck with your little problem. Hope I was able to help- Dave

nj_cutlass72

I started out with 9/16 sockets but then realized 14mm were better fit so I went with that.. and many of the bolts came right off, some easily. So I have 2 on one side and 1 on the other that are impossible.

well I did start with 6 sided socket but then switched to 12 like an idiot.... and I did heat the top of the bolt mainly, so again, another rookie mistake! I only heated the area for 5 minutes.

thanks for sharing couple of options, I may see if I can heat it more near the bolt and then jam perhaps 13mm for a grip, if not I can use some other advice you have given, really appreciate it and will keep you guys posted.

47 Convertible

I think MDchanic is right about heating the bolt head in this case. I seem to run into this problem several times a year. Sufficient heat somehow loosens the grip of rust but you've got to get it glowing hot slowly so the heat can work its way down the bolt, let it cool just to natural color and then use one of those special sockets for bunged up bolt heads and loosen. I think maybe it is the expansion from high heat and then contraction as it cools that breaks the rust loose. Just my guess on that though.

rustyroger

If it all goes sour and you end up with a stud broken flush with the head all is not lost.
You say you are taking the engine apart. So when the heads are off you can take them to a specialist machine shop to have the remainder drilled out and the thread retapped or helicoiled.
I'm guessing you are in New Jersey, plenty of good machine shops there I think.
I once watched a guy doing it to a head with the same problems, he used a reverse drill bit, worked very slowly and with huge patience. The remains of the bolt came out without any dramas, but he helicoiled it anyway.

It was my head he worked on, guess what?, it was an Olds 455!.

Roger.

henryk8398

Yup, if you are taking the heads to a shop, they can do it inexpensively. No-brainer. One bolt cost me $28 last year during a valve job. Probably saved me hours!

MDchanic

No! That's not what I meant!

Darned English language! I changed my original comment.

When I said heat the HEAD, I meant heat the CYLINDER head, not the bolt head.
On Olds heads, the exhaust manifold bolt goes through a little ear that you can heat from a number of angles, rather than just going into the meat of the head.

I'm sorry that I didn't make that clear.

To be absolutely clear:



- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Eric,

Cool trick, i'll know that when i change to dual exhaust, at the moment i have a single fart-can exhaust. But it does the job.

Cheers,

Tony

panos

Had the same problem with my old 350 at exact the same bolt,usually the bolt is stuck in the exhaust flange and not the head,so i went and turned the hole manifold around the bolt slowly back and forth,it worked for me.

DreWRoolZ

they make sockets to get out bolts that are rounded out.. forget what they are called but my dad uses them sometimes at his shop. also if you can find some 'PB B'laster' i believe is what it is called, it works better than wd40 and liquid wrench

Texas Jim

MDchanic is "on spot" w/ this one. On my '71 455, I had that one bolt f/ the exhaust manifold to cylinder head fighting me also, same one on each side. I used a titanium drill bit, drilled out the center, let brake fluid soak in f/ two days, and used an easy-out. They came out w/ some muscle. I once drilled out a hardened #8 bolt f/ a thrust plate on a small block Ford which I had "Lock tite (red)" on, had the pistons and cam in it. I had to mask the heck out of the engine, as I wanted NO metal strown around inside. Just takes patience. But I like the solution that MDchanic has f/ you. And MDchanic, your screen name sounds like a hip-hop rapper's name. LOL! I stopped at the very early '80s R&B, I'm 54 years old, but cool name. And great advice. This is a great site, and out of all the engines I've done in my lifetime, the 455 Olds is one of the very most interesting, not to mention powerful in it's stock form. The only engine that I look at torque first and horse power second. It's just a great bore and stroke combo.

Lady72nRob71

I have always thought that, too. Or MCchanic.
Yep, I went through that stage, too in the 80's when rap was fun and decent. Fat Boys, Grandmaster Flash, Force MD's, Rakim, EPMD, Digital underground, M. Jackson, etc...
Still listen to them from time to time to bring back memories of our days of breakdancing in the backyard on a homemade stage with a cranked up jambox...
I wonder if I could still fit into my old parachute pants??

oldsguybry

Thanks .... ill use that method in the future , I just sold my old exhaust manifolds on my 455 and ended up breaking three bolts all together , but luckily the bolt heads just snapped leaving the whole bolt sticking out. I will use the above method for removing the remainder of the bolts.

oldsguybry

that was after my time...

Red Delta

Thank you, for the laugh of the day.

Boldsmobile

Have a welder?

I often weld a new bolt onto the old bolt and put the socket (6 point only) on the new bolt. It really depends on whether you have the room to weld. When i have done it, it has always worked. Works fantastics on a socket cap that wont budge.

nj_cutlass72

here's a midway progress report, I was able to remove the bolts on one side, 2 bolts came loose after heating with MAP torch and using a 6 sided socket... I'll for sure pass on the advice to some newbie like me one day!

but the culprit on the picture still remains stuck, if you look close for some reason there's 2 washers on the bolt, wtf? so I did heat and yank on it more with the wrench but the bolt is now completely rounded off.. I'll be making a visit to sears soon!

compedgemarine

here is the set I have, or similar, as they offer several sets of these with different sizes
http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_101...4&blockType=L4

I was skeptical at first but once it started to bite in it held tight till the bolt came loose. I used it with a hammer impact driver so that it would turn it on and force it to bite in. the bolt I had to remove was worse as it was down in the bilge of a boat and I could not even really see it.

nj_cutlass72

wow, 2 turns and the bolt loosened and came off! definitely worth the $30.

thanks

rustyroger

Glad it worked out for you.
Now run a tap down all the threads and make sure there isn't any crap plugging the bottoms of the holes, maybe that was why the offending bolt had washers on it.

Roger.

nj_cutlass72

ok, any tips on removing the bolts on the flywheel? after few attempts, it made me miss the bolts on the manifold.

MDchanic

Air wrench and a 6-sided socket.

BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUP!!!!

- Eric

nj_cutlass72

fawk, that means $$$

thanks

MDchanic

Not that many.


... And you'll be glad you spent it for the rest of your life.

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

Yep. Either air or electric, an impact wrench is a tool you will appreciate later. In fact you will always wonder how you got along without it!
I have a cheapie electric one - hasn't met a bolt it could not remove, even suspension and steering gear bolts!

MDchanic

I recommend against going too cheap on an air-powered one, though.
I had one given to me from one of those "air compressor with tools" sets from Home Depot. Took off about 20 bolts before it stopped working.

The Ingersoll one I've got now is MUCH better in all ways, and the Craftsman one my father bought 30 years ago is still working.

- Eric

johns59super88

use Antisieze on the bolt or stud threads. You'll never struggle again.

John

firefrost gold

put a socket on the balancer bolt up front to keep the crank from turning then as said a six sided socket back in my two stroke day's we would stick a rope in the cylender and turn over till rope stoped it then could remove clutch or flywheel . I have had good luck with heating the area up real good then spray some Free or Blaster crc what ever lube you have and then turn out. How many have the drive hammer tool that you twist and hit with a hammer worked great on stuck screws ? I

http://factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/i...pactdriver.jpg

nj_cutlass72

I red what you said twice, still dont know what you mean...regardless i will get a air wrench!

MD, quick question, as you can tell I am taking apart the whole darn thing.. what size socket is needed for the balancer bolt? and can I man handle that or must use the air wrench as well?

thanks

Rickman48

Best with an impact - put the flywheel back on, finger tight, to keep it from turning.

nj_cutlass72

any idea which size socket to use?

zodiacblueS

Mine was an inch and one-eighth. (1-1/8")

radioburningchrome

Hot Rod magazine had the top 100 tips and tricks in 1993 in their magazine. One that i use to this day is : heat the area (propane,etc) and put a candle against the bolt, nut, etc that is frozen solid. The paraffin will work its way into the area and lubricate like nothing else.

MDchanic

English translation:

It's an old motorcycle trick: You feed a length of rope in through the spark plug hole, leaving a bit hanging out. Then, when you rotate the engine, the piston comes up against the soft rope, compresses it, and ultimately stops, locking the engine so you can remove a crank or clutch bolt. When finished, you just pull the rope out of the cylinder.
I have no idea whether this trick would bend a rod with the forces needed for some of these fasteners.

As has been answered, it's 1⅛" (or 28mm, if I recall).

I would strongly advise an air wrench for that one - makes a difficult and annoying job into a (literally) 1-second job. Worth the price of admission right there.

- Eric

Allan R

As the others have said 1 1/8". I had to borrow my neighbors because my biggest was 1". I had the pleasure of taking that bolt off this summer. I needed a breaker bar and a snipe to get the sucker loose. Hope yours comes loose easier. Soak it with some penetrating oil for awhile before you try, and as you know by now 6 point socket! If you have your air tools now, use them. You'll need good pressure though, so if you have less than a 20 lb tank and 110 lbs of sustained air pressure it won't do much.

BTW, neat suggestion on the rope trick Eric, didn't see that one coming. Probably would have just had someone hold the flywheel from turning.