815Cutlass1972

Well its been a long time, but I finally received my engine back from my machinist. I can't wait to get this thing in already! It's kinda of depressing outside though with this Midwest blizzard. I can't even open my front door, and the snow is half way up the tires on my SUV. I think Mr. Groundhog will defer and just sleep in!


Car: 1972 Cutlass "S" Hardtop Coupe
Original engine 350 two barrel

New Engine 1970 455 from Classic Oldsmobile member F-85
Machine shop: Larry Ciaccio Rockford, IL

Block machine work:
• Hot Tanked
• Magnaflux the block
• Bore and Hone .060 with torque plates

Block Parts
• ARP Main stud kit
• Federal-Mogul Main bearings
• Federal-Mogul Rod bearings
• Federal-Mogul Cam bearings
• Diamond Custom Pistons 14.5 cc dish .060 oversize
• Recondition Stock Rods
• Hanged and aligned pistons
• Complete Balance rotating assembly
• Melling M22FHV Hi-Volume oil pump
• Milodon 7 quart oil pan
• Crank R.010 M.010

Heads:
• resurfaced C heads with 2.072 intake and 1.68 Exhaust 79 cc, bronze guides and hard seats, Three angle valve job.
• Comp Cam XE268H Intake .485/Exhaust .490 110.0 Lobe Separation
• Comp Cam Valve springs (balanced)
• Comp Rocker Roller tip Magnum arms
• Comp cam Magnum Pushrods
• FEL-PRO head gasket Thickness .039, Diameter 4.250

Intake Manifold and carburetor:
• Edelbrock Performer manifold ( I have a Torker also)?? ANY SUGGESTIONS?
• Holley Street Avenger 770 CFM. Should I get a spacer??

Ignition System:
• I have an Accel Electronic Distributor that I will be taking from my Olds 350 it been on the car for two years, and has about 120 miles of usage.

Exhaust System
• W/Z Oldsmobile exhaust manifolds.
• I think I will just go to a shop and have them bend some pipes for me. I would like 2.50 inch pipes and dynomax mufllers. Not sure which series to use yet. ANY SUGGESTIONS?

Transmission:
• BOP Turbo 400
• Rebuilt by Adaptive Transmission, Loves Park,IL
• Mild Shift kit stall converter
• Original stall converter. SHOULD I MAYBE MOVE UP 2000-2300 stall converter??


Horsepower: I have no idea. My plug and play on Comp Cams Camquest says I should make around 386hp and 479tq. I will take her to St. Charles,IL to get Dyno'd, when the motor is placed inside engine compartment.

Rear end: Well it sucks. It's a 2.73 open, but I like to cruise the streets and will occasionally ride on the highway. Will it make a difference if I go to a lower gear numerically,i.e 3.08 or 3.23. I've been to just to go 3.42 and it will not affect street or highway driving. ANY SUGGESTIONS?

When I joined this site in Fall of 2009. I didn't know squat about Oldsmobile,except my Dad and Uncles' loved them. I can say I learned alot, but I still have a long way to go. I loved Citcapps and Eddie Hansen's build so much I tried to replicate them with my own little touches. Thanks to all that have given me insight about this build. Any other suggestions are welcome! Here are some photos,I still have to spray the motor with paint.

Thanks in advance
Kino

don71

Congrats on your progress so far. I'm sure you are pretty excited about your new engine. Thats my favorite time of restoration....New Engine Day !!

I use a Torker intake....well because thats what I have. If had a performer, I would use it instead. Don't get me wrong, the torker is fine on the street, and you won't miss any low end torque with all thats available from the 455.

You can enjoy your car with the current rear gears as is. You don't have to spend any more money right now...In the future I might suggest you look at getting some better gears....for the fun of it. I have 3:23 ratio and feel like its perfect for my 455 city or highway. Over drive would be nice for long hauls...but so would a nice radio, don't have, don't need It won't get 14mpg anymore, but its more fun.

Enjoy!

cutlassefi

Use the Performer, you don't have enough cam and gear for the Torker. 3.23 gear would be my choice(still use the Performer). I run long case Dynomax Super Turbos, I like them. Your stock stall should be fine, again not enough cam to need a higher stall.

My guess? 360hp/480tq. Not enough off the seat time on the cam and the exhaust manifolds will keep everything in check.

Jmo.

Just curious, why the custom Diamond pistons when KB makes an identical one off the shelf? Thanks.

815Cutlass1972

Thanks for the information fellas! I had originally ordered Speed Pro pistons from Summit in November 2009, but many back orders followed. I got a refund and ordered KB's Icon pistons for this engine. I ordered them in Feb 2010. When I received them they look awfully small, so I took them to my machinist, and he figured out they were Ford pistons. I got in contact with KB since they were drop shipped from Summit.

KB apologized, and said they didn't have that particular piston in stock at the moment, and did not know when they would have more, so I got a refund to purchase pistons from another vendor.All I could find was E-bay cast pistons, and I didn't want those at all. No one had KB's in stock, so I opted for the Diamond Pistons in July 2010, since I was planning to have my engine back in September 2010. That sucked!! I wish I didn't have to go thru all that, but things happen.

So both of youz guyz say 3.23 gears. That sounds good. Would youz guyz say that buying a rebuilt 3.23 with posi is my best bet, rather than swapping out my internals(carrier) for 3.23?

It looks like the Performer will be the winner. I'm going to sell the Torker to my neighbor who is building a Olds 455 that will suit his build better. Anyone know where I can get a bolt kit for the Performer?

ROBZ442

Sounds like a nice set up you've got there. It's good to see another local guy on here. I would agree on the Performer and the 3.23 gears. I'm running a Torker and 3.91 gears in my 4 speed 442. I love the set up but once I hit 65 mph @ 3000 rpm you can almost watch my fuel gauge dropping. Who are you thinking about using for the exhaust?

815Cutlass1972

Rob,

Well my plan is to use my W/Z manifolds, because I heard headers are a lot of work to put on. Not sure but it seems you have to beat them to death to fit right. Would headers even make a big difference in HP? I'm plan to use either X or H pipe not really sure about this, Looking for insight. Mufflers... I like Dynomax (2/12) Super Turbos. Maybe I'll will be able to check your car out at one of the local cruise nights,once I get mine up and running. Still got plenty of time, snow isn't going anywhere. LOL

don71

I've been back and forth with headers. I have had my car many years and after certain events, I swap. Its seems every six or seven years something comes up, and I'm offered a oppurtunity to go back manifolds.

I like headers......I don't like the low ground clearance.... and there is nothing you can do about that. After you get past certain installation issues, its usually a good situation. If you're after performance, there is no sense in leaving ponies on the table. But I under stand your choice.

When it comes time to swap your rear gears keep in mind the cost. Its about the same....either way. I chose to purchase a complete rear ready to bolt in verses having a new carrier etc. installed. I'm very happy with that decision.

Good luck with your ride and enjoy it.

71supreme

Hey 815, sounds like a great build. Good luck with it!

I just got bolts for my performer manifold here: http://paceperformance.com/search.ht...+kit&go=Search

about $16 + shipping

455man

Headers are good for horsepower especially with Oldsmobiles but they are a pain. I've thought about going back to manifolds but then see a cocky mustang out and leave the headers on.

cutlassefi

There's no question headers will make more hp and help a bit with mileage as well but their benefits on a stock headed Olds are some what limited.
But if you don't fill the crossovers and weld the center dividers then you're not getting the most out of them. Those mods not only keep the intake manifold cooler but also help in the actual scavenging of the exhaust.

Given the choice though I'd still do headers.

ROBZ442

Iv'e had headers on my car for years. Originally I had stock manifolds and then switched to headers. My car has a close ratio M-21 and I could feel a difference when shifting gears, it was almost like I needed to learn how to shift smoothly again. I am not sure how much of a performance gain this was, I had no way of really telling that but it did change the way my engine performed

f-85

Sounds like you really have this project going! It really sounds great! So do you think you might bring the car out to Byron to run it this year?

815Cutlass1972

Thanks Guyz,

This stuff is really exciting!

My head is twirling about this header/Manifold thing. So what options do they have for headers? Which are the best fit, even though the headers probably fit each car different? They seem rather expensive just to bang them all up! I had a guy tell me to go with Dick Miller, but I hear you have to get a mini-starter, and sometimes cut your inner fender well.?.



Josh I think I should be able to get to Byron a few times this year to see how she runs, and to check out other people's rides.I'm sure I will see you before that though, may need some help with this thing!$! Hey I see your 350 you had up is gone. Good stuff joe!

Cutlass EFI.... Thanks for more insight! I'm just learning all this stuff, so filling in the crossover and welding the center divider is a benefit? Is this something a machinist does? I'm very curious about this, because keeping things cool is usually good.Are the crossovers filled with liquid metal. I would like to utilize all the power I can, in regards to this build!

Hahaha I tried to weld before,and I butchered everything that night. You know after having these heads rebuilt and seeing the cost, I could have purchased a set of Edelbrock heads for 1100.00 bucks, but I passed on the offer. This rebuilding business really adds up!

I would love the goal of pushing 450 + HP, but I think I will use my 73 Omega for the sleeper, get yourself embarrassed car. So my next build will be a 455 in the Omega with Alum Head, headers, larger cam, and so on.

Run to Rund

Get your exhaust from Torque Tech or Pypes (I've heard the most good stuff about Pypes) with mandrel bends. Your local shop uses a "crush" bender and you lose a lot of cross-sectional area in the bends, causing restriction to flow.

f-85

Cool just give me a call. You still have my number right? Im always willing to help if you need anything.


Josh

dc2x4drvr

507OLDS

Weld the center divider to make it flush with the end,like CutlassEFI mentioned. A set of Hooker 1 7/8" headers will be plenty for your application,and they fit good. Nice to see you kept the exhaust valve small.The larger 1.71" valve will not benefit you at all.You could also go even bigger on the intake valve,if you choose to do so in the future.

815Cutlass1972

I just checked the Pypes Website. I listened to a couple of different systems they had. The Dynomax Super Turbos with the Pypes' X-Pipes sound good. Pypes' Street Pro Mufflers sound good also. Thanks for turning me on to that website. I'll probably be ordering from them soon! Don't want to lose anything if its not necessary.

Fellas if I do decide to go with headers, would used headers be okay if they are in decent shape? I see them all the time for sale on another site (ROP), but I have never been able to purchase anything,after numerous attempts to gain access to ROP.

455man

I have used headers on my car. Been there 15 years. I had to bend them a little to make them fit anyway.

815Cutlass1972

455man...What brand Headers have you been using? Are they ceramic coated? Brian I found these Hooker Super Comp Headers 3202-1HKR, does the part number sound right?

455man

Not sure the brand. I think hedman? It's been years. They are not ceramic coated. They were rusty with a little black paint on them when I got them. They are on my supreme and got them for the 350, then put them on the 455 when I blew the 350.

815Cutlass1972

This what I found on Pypes website. I love the sound!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcKgTT7swYc

cutlassefi

I have Pypes cats on mine, they make a good product in my opinion but I'm sorry to say yours won't sound like that, not enough cam.

815Cutlass1972

Yeah I know that cam is has a higher lift, I just like the sound. I already have heard XE268H cam in various cars, and it does sound very nice! Here is where I initially got the idea for the cam. Sorry I couldn't find any Oldsmobiles running this. He has a 350 with the same cam specs as mine. I can't remember but I think he said he used Flowmasters with 2.5 inch pipes. Different car/engine but it gives me an idea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kukI2LnxrqY

Disclaimer: I do not like Corvettes at all. Please view at your own risk! LOL

cutlassefi

Just for those who don't know, lift has nothing to do with the sound, duration and/or overlap is what dictates that.

Once you put the same cam in larger and larger displacement engines they get quieter and quieter. I'd be very surprised if yours sounded like that. I would have gone at least the next one up, but that's me, Mr. Vegas.

Just an fyi.

815Cutlass1972

Haha Mr Vegas huh... Yeah I don't think my car will sound like that, but it clips like that pump me up! Only time will tell. Its always the best when the unknown is cranked up. Thanks for the info

815Cutlass1972

Okay so I have been researching some of the recommendations that were suggested by some of youz. I think I will use headers. I know they will not benefit me without the upgrades on the iron heads,i.e center dividers,filling the heat riser crossovers.

I wonder why the center divider on the W/Z M-folds are not made to be flush with the Cen Divider on the heads???

The heads would have to be disassembled and then pre-heat the casting. After all that I would probably have to get some port work done, so I would be dumping more money into these heads,and I rather just save for a set of Edelbrock heads.

My friend suggested if I wanted to use my W/Z manifolds for the time being, I could use heat riser plugs to keep the intake cool and use a aluminum wedge to extend the center divider(never heard of this).

I guess it's something that can be placed between header and the "center divider", but I have never heard of this before. He said it would just be temporary, until I purchased Edelbrock heads. Any thoughts on any of this?

BIGJERR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfC0icZ-FQs

My car with flowmasters for comparison...........

cutlassefi

If you're getting Edelbrock heads then I'm not sure I'd do anything beyond necessity. Jmo.

The manifolds are not made flush cuz you still have the center divide that isn't flush as well as the whole center cavity to the crossovers. Having the manifolds flush would be a waste.

815Cutlass1972

Yeah I think you are right, if I will eventually get Edelbrock heads. BigJerr your car sounds effing awesome joe!!! Who bent your tailpipes? Thanks bud!

geckonz08

looking good ,congrats . AND your enthusiasm is justifiably palpable.
mike

BIGJERR

I got the complete system off a Olds guy on another board.......Shipping was more than the what he sold it to me for..........So I cant help on the pipes to much........

815Cutlass1972

Good stuff... Hmmm.. I wonder if that is same board I've been trying to get on for over one year,because they have awesome deals. Good score

BIGJERR

If its ROP then yep...........This is Mcalvos complete set up.....On vid you can see the specs,Sounds better in person,Even the Chevy guys told me at the indoor car show(see other thread) that it sounded bad azz..........

815Cutlass1972

Well, I now have the 455 inside my Cutlass. I drove it 56 miles home from the shop. The engine was tight as expected for its virgin run, but it did loosen a bit on the ride home from Route 20.

My 455 has a nice slight lope, and the Pypes exhaust system is good, except their lousy tail pipes. I'm going to go to local shop, and have them add tips to my exhaust. I have headers, but I did not put them on, and I'm glad. The manifolds keep the noise in check for street car.I'm going to change the oil(Brad Penn) and filter.

I used my Pertronix Flamethrower distrubutor from my Olds 350, I think I have defective product (long story), so I'm looking to upgrade to the Pertronix III plug and play or Mallory. Don't know much about Mallory so input is welcome as always!

I couldn't use my regular mechanic, because he had some personal issues to take care of. The mechanic I used to hook the tranny the 455 was trying to get me to purchase a MSD ready to run or MSD with 6AL box, but he is a Chevy guy, so go figure.

I have to work on the timing a little bit more. I disconnected the vacuum advance for now, because it was causing the car to stall bad.Once I get this stuff squared away, I will be able to enjoy my ride. I can already feel the difference from the stock 72 2 brl to this big block! It was so hard not to stomp the pedal to the floor, but I will wait until the engine is properly broken in!

815Cutlass1972

More flicks

cutlassefi

You listed that as an Accel originally. I'd use that or an Accel or Mallory conversion. I've now had 2 Pertronix go bad on my brothers 68 Stang.

dc2x4drvr

I've ran the early Pertronix, and had problems..replaced with a MSD "ready to run" and never looked back..they work good and last long time. With a stock GM cap the unit looks almost stock too.

GreekDog

damn, that engine sure looks purdy! haha

Im looking to do the same thing this time next year. Just curious(if you dont mind me asking) how much did all the machine and engine work cost? Im 23 years old and I have a feeling that its gonna set me back quite a bit haha

ROBZ442

Congratulations on the new motor. It is a great feeling when the first time you hit the road with a new engine. I just went through that myself three weeks ago.