I have a valve guide that looks like it moved a 1/4 inch or so. I had removed my drivers side header to install a solid mount and happened to look into the exhaust ports and noticed that the guide had moved. I verified this by removing the valve cover and looking at the inside of the spring. Also the valve seal was up on the valve and no where near the guide. That port on the headers is whitish in color compared to the others.
I'm just wondering if this is a big deal. My concern is what caused this, retainer hitting the guide maybe. I check the clearance when I assembled the heads and had roughly .650 inch and my lift is .583 so that may not be the cause. Maybe heat differences? I assume oil may be getting by since the valve seal might not be doing it's job now. I do get blue smoke when I jump on it a little.
I just don't feel like tearing the motor apart since I finally got the tunnel ram sealed. Thanks.

 

So, after removing the valve cover, this one guide was lower than the others when compared?

I'm going to assume you know that at these higher lifts your guides need to machined down lower. You didn't mention if this process was done on all of them.

The fact that the seal is higher does not concern me, thats normal in my experience. They sometimes ride like that,so yea that can be a heat thing.

Other opinions may vary.

 

Id assume theres not enough press on the guide, have someone make you a guide with more press, if you cant that done locally, we can do it for you.

 

 

If that guide is loose enough to move, it's just gonna get looser with heat, fall down, and /or shatter!
Then you'll have MAJOR CARNAGE!!
Fix it, or send us pictures!

 

The valve seat has already been torn up, tear her down.

 

sound like a winter project.
railguy

 

The seat and valve face should be fine
When the guide (s)
Get looser fall out further you will be in a worse way

 

Take it apart and get someone knowledgeable to check out the heads. This problem won't heal itself--it will only get worse if ignored. Sorry.

 

Thanks for all the input. Time to take it apart I guess. I'm just at a point where I really can't afford to sink anymore cash into this thing. A winter project for sure along with spring and summer. Depends on what the problem is.
I'll have to check the other side also, I always have oil in the cylinders when the car sits. I'm using a stock style valve seals from Comp cams. The
"umbrella type". Yep probably should have had the guides machined for the better style valve seals that stay in place. Course the guides have to stay in place first.

 

Are these the original guides?
If someone replaced them, they forgot the locktite!
This shouldn't be costly, just time consuming, if done now, before explosion!!

 

You need to get those heads to a good shop, install a bronze guide with proper press, then honed to size, chrome stem valve, then finally a good race valve job checked for concentricity, topped by a viton valve seal, get with the best shop in your area, anything less, it will not work for the long run.

 

These heads were done by someone else or I should say, I bought them from a running engine and the work was done already. They had been ported and polished with new guides. I replaced the springs to match my cam and had to shim them to get the correct height.
Well since I've had the intake on and off three times now and the last time it took 1/2 hour to remove everything, I'll have it apart tomorrow. Glad the bottom end is holding together.

Pics are of the heads after I got them. Really doesn't show anything I guess.

Would be nice to bring the heads to a shop and have all that done. I need to check the guides at a minimum and use better seals.

 

loctite will not seal votec unfortunately

 

Some valve guide seals take up less "room" at the top than others. I have found ones with .11" height to .18" height, which affects guide to retainer clearance accordingly. Check out the Howards orange seals
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?...%20seals&dds=1

 

Thanks, those look better than what I used. Looks like they may stay on the guide better. I used these.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-502-16/

 

If your valve stem to guide clearence is excessive, theres no seal made that will control the leakage.

 

A stepped guide should take care of your problem of the moving guide.

 

Got the head off. All valve seals are up high and basically caught in the spring. Might as well have left them out because they were doing nothing. Guide is down pretty far. I did find some metal when I drained the oil, not good.

 

Dan, that really stinks! I know you are getting tired of these things happening. I hope you get it sorted out

 

Yes I am getting tired. I'm at a point where I have all the time in the world, I just don't have the funds.

 

Are those valve spring pressures matched to your camshaft's requirement?

 

Yes as far as I'm using the springs recommended and each is set at the installed height given on the cam card. I had to shim all to get to the correct height. I assume the springs at the correct installed height would be the correct pressure.

 

Those black rubber umbrellas are marginally better than no seals. I avoid them. I hate valve shims as they are soft steel and the spring ends (especially the dampers) chew them up. If you can use the thickness of spring seats that keep the springs aligned, they are hardened. Comp, Isky, etc. offer them, usually about .060" thick with an inner shoulder to locate the springs. If you have room (Olds heads don't unless the spring seats are machined), you can use the "cup" type that locate the outside of the coil.
http://www.compperformancegroupstore...ing%20locators

 

Well I removed the valve spring and no obvious damage to anything. The shims I'm using are harden steel, they looked fine. I was able to push the guide all the way through with my finger and after cleaning the carbon off I'm able to push it through by hand. So basically this one fit way too lose. I'll check the others and have new guides installed and be done with it. Also use a better set of valve seals.

 

Are you going to show it the shop that did the work?I don't think they can blame it on any thing you did.It sucks when stuff like that happens but you were lucky you caught it before it got worse.
railguy

 

I bought the heads, block, crank and pistons/rods off someone. Not sure who did the work. I've run the heads before with no problem then spun a rod bearing, rebuilt then this. Yes good thing I caught it, it was luck. There would be no indications until it just failed.

I'm tempted to pull the motor, clean it up and paint it since it's half apart anyways. Good job for the weekend. I think I will. It's a lot easier to assemble on the engine stand.

 

Sounds like to me, you have those bronze valve guide liners, they are a press to fit deal and are known to do exactly what yours did.

You might do as 380racer recommended, install stepped valve guides, which means it's like a stepped header, the top of the guide is stepped, larger in diameter and won't slide down your valve stem.

They will have to reem/bore the top half of the valve guides to use pressed in stepped valve guides.

Or you could have threaded valve guides put in, they won't move but they are more expensive and more machining is required.

 

I got steel ones which I guess makes it more odd that it loosened. I need to figure out what I want to do for a fix.

SBORule, The following questions aren't necessarily directed towards you.

Do I replace all even though they might be good as is? Do I replace the one that loosened and call it a day? I'm sure the hole could reamed or knurled to make it fit tighter. Being on a tight budget and all, I'd like to do it cheapest but also be confident it won't break again. Of course cheapest and confident don't belong in the same sentence. I guess to answer my own question I should replace all.

I should add, where's a good place to get guides?

 

I just found a broken lifter, piece missing from the top. Bottom is mushroomed so cam is dead. Need to start from scratch now. Will be awhile before I can do anything.

Just added pics. The bottom of lifter is far from flat. Can't imagine what the lobe looks like.

 

That's a shame. Sorry for your loss.

 

Dan, do you think this could be the result of using 1.7 ratio rockers when you already had a fairly large cam? I'm just curious, dropped guide, broken lifter...seems like there is too much valve travel and they are binding somewhere.

 

Steve, I am thinking that it was a set of defective lifters from looing at the pictures. For the valve guide I had a similar problem years ago and I had the problem fixed.

 

Steve, I'm not sure. I know I have enough clearance between the retainer and guides for the extra lift. I checked the geometry a few times and seemed good. Tried a couple different lengths of pushrods. The guide looks like it moved one time then stayed in the position awhile because of the carbon build up. The last time I installed the TR I had adjusted the preload on the lifters again and I may have mess one up.

It was sheer luck that I happened to look at the ports after removing the header. Funny I finally get the correct solid motor mount and now I can't use it. Well at least I found this stuff before major problems. I'm tearing the motor apart because I'm not sure where all the metal from the lifter is.

 

As always better safe than sorry.

 

Anyone know where I could get valve guides that are .563 inches OD? I've googled it and came up empty. Most I've seen are either .500 or .531 which is what most guide seals are. I just want to have the parts before going to the machine shop. A step version would work great I think. Thanks.

ID .3437 (11/32)
Length 2"