davepnola

Just received the correct 1972 455 for my 1972 convertable w-30 and will need some suggestions please?
What can I use from the 350 (flywheel,distributor,exhaust,motor mounts,fuel pump,carb etc... ) and what will I need to purchase for the big block to install and upgrade.
Also what is the correct w-30 specs that I need to follow for the year 1972 455 .
Will the headers of the 350 work or are the exhaust ports smaller ?

What about the carb I have on the 350, can increase the jets or rework the carb for the 455 ?

The trans is 350 turbo , I was told that it will work but for how long it will hold up depends on how hard the car is driven with the big block ?

The motor is going to the machine shop tomorrow so I will be looking for a good cam , valvetrain, gaskets, etc... Any suggestions or parts that I will need , please let me know what you have and thanks for you time .. Davepnola

2blu442

Hi Dave
If you have the time do a search on this topic as it has come up several times. You can use the flywheel, distributor, fuel pump, timing cover, water pump, starter, brackets for alternator power steering and AC, most of the bolt on items. The exhaust manifolds will bolt up but do not flow as well so should be replaced. If you want to maintain the original look go with the W/Z manifolds as those were correct for the 455 in a Cutlass/442 chassis. 350 headers will not work. You can use the 350 motor mounts if you keep the metal 350 pads on the crossmember. The carb will bolt on fine but you may not get enough fuel to fully utilize the power your 455 could produce. The TH350 would work for gentle driving but unless its beefed up it will not take the torque of a 455 driven aggressively.

Choice of cam, compression, valvetrain, etc. all depend on what your plans are for the car. Share a little more detail on what you want it to do and I'm sure there's guys on this site who can help you with your build.

Have fun with your project!!! John

citcapp

You'll need a carb in the 750-800 cfm range at least. Best thing is to match everything up, carb, intake manifold, cam, pistons, etc. Use the W/Z manifolds or headers which ever you prefer. Do not use the 350 exhaust manifolds they are to small for the 455. Seeing as how you are doing all of the engine upgrades don't wast your time with the turbo 350, upgrade to the 400 and save the misery of having to replace the 350 later. Good luck

joe_padavano

So how "correct" do you want to be? The distributor from the 350 will work, but will not have the correct numbers nor the correct advance curve. If this car is an original X-code W30, it will already have the BBO frame mounts. The TH350 is not "correct" for a W-30 either, so again what are you trying to do?

350 exhaust manifolds will physically bolt to a 455, but the flanges will be in the wrong place due to the different deck height. Again, "correct" means W/Z exhaust manifolds.

507OLDS

Like Joe mentioned above. Is it a legit X-code W30,or are you making a clone out of a 350 car. If it's real,& you need the correct intake or carb,I have that stuff. I also have the correct TH400 trans.

Even if the motor is fairly built,all you will need is a 750cfm carb,if that,unless you really plan on spinning the engine.My 507 works great with an 830,as the peak HP rpm is 5800.

davepnola

the car will be correct w-30 car, so I will need the trans , exhaust and intake manifold, please pm on price and shipping to 70433 thanks
Also the motor is f block and ga heads , I would like to have the w-30 hp and torque specs which I think is similar to buicks stage 1 motors for this time era. 370 hp and 510 torque at 2800 rpms. That would be the ticket for my plans ... the engine is at the machine shop and the shop is just waiting for intentions on what to do with the eingine build. My guess is the engine I have is low compression 455 4barrel motor ??
Please respond in thoughts of getting as close as possible to the these specs I am trying to achieve. I would rather a lower compression motor , with more air flow in the head work, though I do want the low rpm torque.
Thanks for your suggestions.

davepnola

the car will be correct w-30 car, so I will need the trans , exhaust and intake manifold, please pm on price and shipping to 70433 thanks
Also the motor is f block and ga heads , I would like to have the w-30 hp and torque specs which I think is similar to buicks stage 1 motors for this time era. 370 hp and 510 torque at 2800 rpms. That would be the ticket for my plans ... the engine is at the machine shop and the shop is just waiting for intentions on what to do with the eingine build. My guess is the engine I have is low compression 455 4barrel motor ??
Please respond in thoughts of getting as close as possible to the these specs I am trying to achieve. I would rather a lower compression motor , with more air flow in the head work, though I do want the low rpm torque.
Thanks for your suggestions.

joe_padavano

Will be???

That doesn't answer the question of whether it's real or not. We're not trying to bust your chops (well, maybe a little) but it does matter as far as the motor mounts and brackets are concerned.

Not for 1972 it wasn't. The 328 deg cam was long gone by then. Since even the W-30 used the pedestrian Ga heads that year, there wasn't a big difference between the W-30 and lesser 455s. Factory HP was 300 on the W-30 that year.

They all were in 1972, even the W-30.

Texas Jim

Only this past August did I get my hands on my first 455, a '71 out of a '71 Olds 98. Although it's in great shape, I will eventually go into it and up it's performance. Although I've built countless engines, both car and motorcycle, in the past 35 years, I'm not up on the tricks of exactly how to properly and directly wake-up a 455 Olds engine like I am a SBC. Wanting all the DOs and DON'Ts and the best/direct way to go about the 455 Olds, I looked around and ordered "Wild About Cars-Engine Modification And Tuning Guide" This manual will not only answer all your questions, but also give you a game plan as to the level of engine you're wanting, and even has the "step by step" how to do the entire engine piece by piece and the work sheets to use in the process. It has it all. The author gives you "every trick in the book" to build your Olds engine just the way you want it. Out of the entire library I have on automotives, and I have quite a good one, this manual is easily one of the best books in it.
Buy it, you won't be sorry, and you'll hold the answers to 99% of all the questions you're asking. You'll beable to tell the machinist exactly what to do w/ your engine right down to the thousandth, and how to go about it.

davepnola

Ok Joe , no it will not be a Concourse w 30 car, but the basics will be there, so a clone or simulated w 30 will suffice for me. I really was just looking for the best internal specs to get to the Stage 1 Buick specs, high torque at low rpms ... So any advice will be appreciated. Also thanks Jim I will look for that book. Thanks dave

davepnola

I am having problems posting,,
Ok Joe the car will be clone and that is good enough for me, but i would like the specifics on powertrain and internal engine specs to acheive high end torque like buicks stage 1 specs at low rpms... any good advice would be appreciated. Thanks Jim I will look for that book ....

joe_padavano

No problem, since 1972 was the first year that the engine code was in the VIN, so this clone won't be fooling anyone. I have no problem with doing that for personal use anyway. As I said, if you want to build it exactly like a 1972 W-30, performance will not be what you desire. Frankly, camshaft technology has come a long way from the 328 degree cam used in the 1970 cars. Musclecar Review just had a Mondello buildup on a 455 - you might want to start there. Except for the Edelbrock heads and intake, this will be a good baseline. Port the Ga heads and you'll about equal the Edelbrocks. Do you plan to spend the bucks for a real or repro W-30 intake and air cleaner?

davepnola

repo would do though I would buy either available, what difference in price , I know i can get repo exhaust manifods for 250.00 and air cleaner 399.00 not sure on intake.. whats the difference on buicks 455 compared to olds , I read articles that said the buicks were forgotten and where Mopar eaters in the day ............thats the ticket for me ....

I really would like the motor to run like a stroked 454 thanks Dave

507OLDS

I would not try to mimmick the 72 W30 specs.Like Joe said,technology has come a long way since then.You can build a nice,pump-gas,street-friendly 455,that will lay down impressive numbers at the track.I do a lot of this,for the cruiser guys wanting something impressive.One of my customers has a 72 convertible that I am doing a 455 swap,which will also look stock,but haul ***.
The reproduction W30 intakes are almost half the cost of a real one,so that would be better for you,or you could find a vintage Edelbrock O4B intake,which is an aluminum low-rise intake,that looks very similar to a stock intake,with a little better runner.You can still mount the factory style OAI breather assembly with that.Do a good street/strip portjob to the Ga heads,& those will work fine.
As far as a camshaft goes,do you have power brakes & AC?
There are a few options for rotating assemblies as well,depending on how crazy you want to get with it.

brown7373

How about radiators? I have considered a similar swap for my 72 Supreme Convertible 350/350, A/C. I have only a 3 row radiator. Does the 455 require a 4 row? Doesn't that require a different top plate? How abour the shroud?

joe_padavano

If you have a hi-perf 455, then yes you want a 4 row and yes you need not only a top plate but different "U" brackets on the bottom as well. These are spot welded to the core support.

ziff396

I installed one of those aluminum radiators off ebay for my HP 461 that is about the same as a 3 row I guess. Runs 180 degrees tops even in summer heat. Stock mounts, top plate, and shroud.

Texas Jim

Joe, Went to the Mondello site and read the articles on the 455. Old Joe Mondello gives just about the same tricks as Dick Miller's articles in Popular Hot Rodding. What I like about the 'Wild About Cars-Eng. Mod. and Tuning Guide" is that it's like Dick Miller and Joe Mondello wrote a book w/ everything in it, all the tricks, along w/ work sheets, and here it is. I do like the page (online) of Popular Hot Rodding articles by Dick Miller, they cover everything.
Anyway, just wanted to thank you f/ the tip on the Mondello site, it contains great info. If more people would buy that Tuning Guide, or a comparable manual, they'd answer most of the questions they ask and have a great reference forever. I may buy the Tech Book that Mondello offers. Have you any input on how good a tech manual the Mondello book is? These books f/ around $25.00 are well worth the money and something you can use over and over.
The first time I built a "juiced car" (lowrider), I first bought the book, "The Science of Hydraulic Suspension," and after reading the book afew times, was able to purchse the correct components wisely and build a good system that suited me. I suppose it's like anything else, you have to educate yourself to some extent in order to do it right the first time.
When I bought this Olds f/ the engine and tranny, I felt that I had found something "different" f/ a change to use in my hot rod, something instead of the usual SBC. And this turned out really well. It only took me 35 years to discover . LOL.

507OLDS

Joe Mondello is no longer involved or associated with Mondello Performance Products,but he did have a few good tech articles back in the day.Things have even progressed since then.One of the things that has been proven false is the whole nickel content being associated with the F number behind the flywheel. I think he started the belief that the lower the number after the "F",the higher the nickel content.That has been proven false by many,including myself,by simply doing rockwell hardness tests on various blocks with different numbers,& there was NO consistency.Any 68-72 455 block will work great.The 73-76 blocks are done at +.060 overbore,as they have thinner walls,thus will likely run hotter & have a poorer ring seal.If you have one of those,bore it the least amount possible to keep the cylinder walls as thick as possible.
Do you need to convert to a 4-row radiator when converting to a 455? NO. It is a good idea,& does add extra cooling capability,but I have done plenty of swaps,& used a good 3-row,& have never had any cooling issues.The aluminum radiators are good too.Either way,have a good water pump,& a good fan with the fan shroud.The standard 4-bladers on some cars won't cut it.

Texas Jim

I do like the basic tricks that both Joe Mondello and Dick Miller give f/ prepping the block and heads, ie; oil restrictors, modified bearings, what type guides to use, clearances, best valve angles, etc. The article: Building Your First Engine by Joe Mondello is a good informative Olds article also. It gives some good Olds data. I've built countless small block Chevys over the years, including afew 383s,- using the 3.75" stroke crank. There are afew tricks to building those engines also, very different from what makes the 455 Olds perform well, and the indepth articles that include all the tricks are handy to have. The good books/manuals are great references to have and to keep handy while doing the work. In the four solid months I've been researching the 455 Olds engines, I never found any articles that noted a "f/sure" pattern as to the amount of nickel content in the 455 engine blocks using the "F"(and # or sub#) on the back face of the block. Overall, it seems that w/ afew inexpensive trick items, some good machine work, and the "mostly" usual good quality rebuild components, these 455s turn out some very good numbers.

agtw31

calm down and just do a basic stock rebuild.

the design of the engine itself will give you all the torque you want.

davepnola

no ac , but power brakes , I like the article at Mondello , but do these big blocks really need the oil restrictors ? this car really will just be cruiser and drag racing every once in a while .... you know when u want the insurance it is there ..... thanks for the replies I am getting close to making a decision. My machinist seems to think stock will be all that I will be needing, but I believe in evolving technolgy and want to take advantage of it ! HERE IS THE QUESTION I have been asking , the split lift on the camshaft , is it better or for street application really does not make adifference ? thanks again oh here is a pic the car , what do ya'll think of the burn't orange color ..... I think it makes it different for sure ...........

Texas Jim

That orange w/the white top is definetly a great looking color. IMO, that's among the best looking cars of it's time, and I'm not always an Olds body fan.
Yes, I'd spend the few dollars f/ those oil restrictors. They're cheap, and any time you can channel your engine oil in a better direction to a better place, it's worth it. Even if you never race the car, better oiling makes f/ a longer lasting engine. Not saying that the engine won't last for a good long time in it's stock form, but I personally can't see passing up those restrictors.
But maybe one of the "Olds Veterans" on here could give more input on the restrictors. I only read about the restrictors, and haven't used them over time to put them to the test.

507OLDS

Many people have done the restrictor thing,including myself,but now are not.It didn't hurt anything,in my experience,but they just are not neccessary.The split duration,spilt lift cam profiles are the way to go.Just one of modern technology's developments.
Your factory crank will be fine.Your factory rods will be fine too.Just have them reconditioned & fitted with ARP bolts.You could have the side beams ground/polished,but then you would want to start looking at the total cost of the rodwork,& compare it to an aftermarket set of rods.Just something to think about.The JE/SRP 455 pistons are real nice,& a little lighter than the Speed-Pro style pistons.Any time you can shave weight,is good.Less weight = more power & also that much less stress to the rotating assembly & block.Your bearing clearances should be a little looser than stock,or what is listed in the book.That is what has been proven to work.If it is built like a SBC,it won't live long.That is a common mistake among many builders.Those engines are nothing alike.get everything balanced.Your stock balancer will be fine,as long as it is in good condition.Your stock auto flexplate will be fine too.Have the block bored,decked,squared,aline-honed,and install ARP bolts or studs in the mains.Get a Melling hi-volume oil pump,with a bolt-on,or weld-on pickup.Your stock oil pan will work fine,or you can upgarde to a Milodon or Moroso extra capacity pan,but some of those will hang down below your crossmember,so you need to be concerned about ground clearance.If you get an aftermarket pan,get the matching pickup for that pan.

joe_padavano

I concur. If done properly (ie, ensure that the hole in the main bearing does not block the hole in the restrictor), they won't hurt anything, but frankly they don't help with oil flow either. The Olds oiling system feeds the lifters first via the main galleries, then the mains, then the cam bearings. The only ways to restrict oil to the top of the motor is to restrict oil to the lifters (by using 16 individual restirctors in the lifter feed holes) or by using restricted pushrods.

By the way, if you really feel strongly about the need to restrict oil to the cam bearings, simply drill new smaller holes in the cam bearings 180 deg away from the originals and install the bearings with these holes down. Same function as the restrictors, but zero cost.

507OLDS

Yes,I've drilled the cam bearings too. I think it was a .090" hole.It's been quite awhile. I don't restrict anything now,even with my solid roller cams & such.Again,it won't hurt anything,but I haven't seen any performance gains,or gains/loss in engine life.

Texas Jim

Yes, Mondello and Miller (and this eng mod manual) both say that the restrictors are necessary, as w/o, it's sending too much oil to the cam at the expense of the large mains. They say that the galley holes leading to the cam are too large. (Both companies have the oil restricting cam bearings also.) They say f/ mild eninges to restrict #2,3,and 4, and f/ hi-po race engines to restrict 1 thru 4. (in the main bearing saddles-the eng mod manual shows which ones to restrict)
I see exactly what you mean about redrilling the cam bearings, same difference.
They also say that on street and mild engines, the right-hand (only) oil galley plug on the front of the engine should have a small hole drilled in it to allow oil to squirt onto the timing chain.
They also all say that w/ a mechanical cam, supposedly it's ok f/ a hydraulic, that restricting oil to the lifters is detrimental to it's operation, as it not only starves the mains, but the oil pours down over the rods and is flayed into foam.
Don't misunderstand me, I know that you guys have first hand experience w/ these 455 Olds engines, but I'm thinking that if these two pros give the exact same tips, that there must be something to it, and in the 35 years that I've been building engines, I've always been partial to tricks that enhance engine oiling. If these oiling tricks were high dollar, I'd have to give them a second thought, but the restrictors are cheap, and like you said, you can even redrill the cam bearings and turn them 180*, and even installing the restrictors in the lifter holes-needing to be drilled and tapped, is easy enough.
I sincerely appreciate you guys replying to these issues. Like I said, Olds 455s are new to me and I'm interested in any and all the info I can get, and conversing w/ guys who have plenty of experience w/ this engine is surely well worth the time, not to mention that I really totally enjoy this stuff. Thanks so much.
I looked into that engine tech manual by Mondello, and it seems to be well worth the $26.00. IMO, unless you do specific engines all the time, it's always good to have a reference handy f/ any questions that may arise.

davepnola

I need a good intake for this build , I have the factory cast iron , though would like the w-30 style ?? Someone earlier said that mught have one to sell ? PM please thanks Dave

joe_padavano

The factory W-30 intake uses the same runner size and shape as the cast iron version - the only difference it that it's lighter. Asking prices (which are not to be confused with selling prices) run $1500 - $2500. Repros are available, but I have not been impressed with the quality.

davepnola

Then I will buy the edelbrock performer , it has a crack that has been welded on the middle ? Egr , heat runner for 125 ? Good deal ? Thanks

2blu442

Was the weld done on the underside where it won't be seen once intalled? That is a common problem and if the repair was done correctly it should be fine. I like to consider parts like this that are used but function just fine as a good deal if less than 50% of the price new. So I would purchase it if I were you. My 2 cents. John

joe_padavano

The problem with the Performer (and pretty much any aftermarket intake) is that the O.A.I. adapter won't fit under the hood. You'll need to use an aftermarket adapter. The performance intakes are about 1"-2" taller than stock.

Unfortunately, this is a slippery slope. Each step takes further from a W-30 clone.

2blu442

Joe, I have been told that the O4B aluminum intakes will fit under the OAI air cleaner setup. Do you know if that true? Except for a reduction in weight and appearance do you know if there's significant flow improvements with the O4B over the cast iron stock intake?

Not trying to highjack the thread, but exploring an option for Dave

John

dc2x4drvr

The 04B can be used with OAI, it's a little old school, but has bigger runners than a stock 4bbl manifold. The 04B will not work with an HEI dist. without a little grinding on the runners.

davepnola

ok anyone have an 04b for sale ?? and who makes this intake ? thanks I did not get the performer .

dc2x4drvr

Edelbrock, look around on evilbay, they were made in 2 versions;
1. Spreadbore carb-Q-jet
2. Squarebore-Holley

davepnola

search 04b / olds intake big block ??

Texas Jim

The Hood Clearance Issue (The Catch 22): Anytime that you install aftermarket intakes, spacers and/or carbs, the hood clearance issue throws the monkey wrench into the mix, and from my experience, just as much or more money is spent fixing the hood clearance problem correctly that is spent on the original performance enhancement, intake/spacer/carb. This happens when you have to buy an after market hood piece (scoop, cowl induction, etc.), or a new hood, and then get the body work and/or paint done. Ofcourse there are dropped bases f/ air cleaners and smaller ones, costing more money and/or reducing the engine's breathing capability/capacity. IMO, the overall situation should be seriously considered prior to buying anything.