Specman

Hello

I'd like to convert the points of factory distributor of my 65 425/370hp to electronic. I see kits but they are 150-200 bucks and you have to use a stock coil.

Complete Distributors with hi perf coils start at about 200. I want the factory look, but I want the spark performance enhancements too.. Anyone know the best way to get it all.

Also what about a carb upgrade. Got a stock original Quadrabog on there and want a direct replalcement to fit. the factory manifold.

Thanks

Kennybill

I have a Crane electronic module kit in my 71 Delta. It replaces the points and it has a dial in rev limiter. Best part about $69 at Summit or Jegs. I would rebuild the Quadrajet, they are good carburators when right. Good Luck, Ken

Specman

Thanks,

I'll give that a shot.

Nice cars by the way. I see you have Dayton? wires on the 98. Did you have to space them out at all?

I just ordered a set of 16x8 for my Starfire, the 70 spoke tho. and a set of 235/60/r16 Michelin LX4 thin white stripe tires. I'm going to adapt the 2 bar spinners from the factory hubcaps.

MY goal is to keep a factory look but make it the way I think Olds should have made it with real wires. Car definitely needs a more track and the extra tire width should fill it out. (I gotta get rid of the horrible "too big hat" look of the originals)

mjscutlass

Well i don't know if this is going to help or not but i can get u a HEI dist. from a locale junk yard for 25 dollors.

Specman

I thought of that, but I want to keep the original look.

texasred

Pertronix makes a drop-in points replacement module.

Also, there is a guy by the name of IgnitionMan that will convert your distributor to an HEI. You can find him at http://viragotech.com/buickthunder/forum/integramod/ His work is top notch.

C.J.

Kennybill

The Crane unit is very similar to the Petronics but the Crane unit has a dial-in rev-limiter also. I have mine set at 4800 RPM's. It was only $70 at Summit

bjtstarfire

Help! so many out there! Any body use the following product:
http://www.lectriclimited.com/breakerless_se.htm
its costly, makes you wonder why the others are in the 50 to 60 dollar range and this is double.

I want to use one - still researching.

Needed for a 394 v8 with single wire set up and I would like to stay with the stock coil and starting resistor.

Reprint from web site: Very Interesting.
3 Types of Triggering Methods:
1.) Optical Triggering (GOOD)
Optical triggering has seen very little use by automotive manufacturers (one or two years of the Nissan Sentra come to mind). The basic construction is an infrared LED (Light Emitting Diode) facing a phototransistor separated by a small gap. Thru this gap a slotted wheel passes which alternately blocks and un-blocks the light, generating position information. Since light will pass through a very narrow slot, a high degree of positional accuracy can be obtained. So why doesn't everybody use this method?

A couple of reasons, the optics of the LED and phototransistor must be kept fairly clean, particularly as the windows in the trigger wheel get smaller. Failure ranges from a subtle timing shift to complete inoperability. Also, LED's and phototransistors that are rated for the automotive temperature range are not available in low cost (required in cost sensitive applications).

Optical triggering has been used primarily by aftermarket ignition manufacturers. It was the only viable alternative to magnetic back in the 1970's when most of the aftermarket ignition companies were founded. It was attractive chiefly because a simple trigger wheel could be fabricated out of plastic or other household materials and the output required minimal signal conditioning, unlike magnetic.

2.) Magnetic Triggering (BETTER)
Far and away the most popular technology has been the magnetic trigger. It has been used by virtually every auto manufacturer since the mid-seventies and is still widely used today. It's construction and operation is inherently simple: Typically a bar of steel is wrapped with several hundred turns of fine wire on one end. A small magnet is attached to the other end, and this assembly is mounted in the distributor facing the distributor shaft. Where the point cam would normally be, a small-toothed wheel is attached. This is called a reluctor. As the teeth of the reluctor approach the coil assembly, the flux from the magnet is pulled in close to the bar. As the teeth move away, the flux springs back outward, inducing a voltage in the pickup coil. Sound familiar?

This voltage is then chopped / filtered / amplified and used to drive a high voltage / high current transistor that switches the coil current. It is a rugged, reliable system that holds up well in a high temperature, high vibration environment. Since it generates a signal without external power, it is especially easy to apply.

The magnetic sensor is gradually being phased out though. It has limited ability to sense teeth that are very close together, which is necessary to gain the positional accuracy required by modern engine management systems.

3.) Hall-Effect Triggering (THE BEST) used by the BREAKERLESS-SE
A Hall-Effect sensor consists of a wafer of silicon thru which a current is passed. When a magnet is placed in proximity to the wafer, the current tends to bunch up on one side of the silicon. This concentration is amplified and detected, indicating the presence or absence of a magnetic field.

The advantages of the Hall device are numerous. Since it is an integrated circuit, it can be made very small with a number of features at minimal cost. It exceeds all current automotive temperature specs, and its accuracy is unaffected even when covered in under-hood muck.

Hall-Effect triggering was widely used by Bosch on European spec vehicles since the late 1970's and was sporadically used in the U.S. as early as 1975. In the 1980's it became somewhat more prevalent, mainly on Chrysler imports. Ford was the first domestic manufacturer to embrace the technology with the advent of the TFI (Thick Film Integrated) ignition. Unfortunately, a good sensor technology was coupled with a marginal ignition module, as evidenced by the current class action lawsuit on behalf of owners of TFI equipped vehicles (not to worry though, Ford straightened this out with the TFI II).

Hall-Effect has since become the overwhelming choice for sensor technology as automotive manufactures migrate to Crank Angle Sensors. These typically are placed to read the starter gear teeth on the flywheel providing the high degree of positional accuracy required for advanced engine management systems. Hall-Effect sensors are also widely used to sense wheel spin on anti-lock brake systems.

bjtstarfire

Any one use the
http://www.lectriclimited.com/breakerless_se.htm
product listed in the thread above?

Oldsguy

No I haven't used Hall Effect but am familiar with all three types described as I am an Electronics Repairman. What they say is basically true, however I think that magnetic triggering is still sufficient for use in most of our applications as durability and cost effectiveness (cheap) is very important to me, the improvement in performance and rugedness provided by Hall Effect triggering cannot justify the higher cost for me as I don't use a flywheel triggering system and want something that will fit under the distributor cap where dirt and grime are not such a problem. Just my 2 cents worth....

Kennybill

Hello, Hmmmm, I look at the site. The Crane kit I got from Jegs for around $60 is pretty similar to thiers. There is NO module box and it uses your coil. The module is on a small plate that replaces the the points. I have used it for a year, no problems but clean the octagon shaft area where the points "used" to ride on. The "trigger" sensor, senses the corners to fire. It doesn't touch so it won't wear anymore. I would think Crane/Petronics both make a good product. I went with the crane because it has a built in rev-limiter too for the same price. Ken

bjtstarfire

Good information, Thanks to both of you.

I went to cranecams.com to investigate and it seems like the best bang for the buck.

I called them to ask about my application - I got a voice mail for now...

I need to ask them if what they have will work on my '61 394 single wire ignition setup - they do not seem to have that listed on the web site??? I see ones for other GM's but they have 2 wires???

I'll keep you posted on their response.

Ben

Specman

Which one is used in the Crane unit? I like the design. All one piece and one wire and it uses the cam somehow?

bjtstarfire

Email from Cranecams support:

KIT PART# 750-1725 WILL WORK FOR 1956 AND UP OLDSMOBILE

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:39 PM
To: 'Pat Traficante'
Subject: RE: REQUEST XR-i


Pat,

I am looking into your XR-i Points To Electronic Ignition product.

I do not see my cars application can you help?

I have a 1961 Olds Starfire with a 394 V8 single points and single wire
(distributor to coil).

The distributor is a window style cap, screw on type rotor, stock coil, and
stock coil resistor

Thanks,
Ben

bjtstarfire

They use the Magnetic Triggering.

For Sale

I used the Pertronix kit in my 1970 Cutlass 350 and it works perfect.

70Wcars

As far as the carb goes. I would go to a Quadrajet from a 68 or 69 Olds...I think the carb on yours is of the older style that uses the dampening piston for the secondary air valve instead of the far superior tension spring that you will find on the later model carbs. Then a good re-build with throttle shaft bushing and some attn. to calibration and your Q-jet will give you econ. and performance.