coldwar

Bought this engine apparently rebuilt (crudely) and then sat in bad storage. Never saw 'ca' heads before, they are 394 548A, 2" intakes, solid retainers. Made me wonder if this was a irrigation piece, but the block has what I think is a 1973 98 VIN derivitive. Number on oil fill tube is 9692402, water pump is PH315. CS drilled for pilot bushing, looks like 1965 intake, Toro pan with skimmer, tapped Z-bar hole. Can't turn the crank at this time, but on quick look cannot seem to see a 'N' on counterweight. Had Cutlass motor mounts in middle holes but some kind of big car PS pump and brackets and cast alternator brackets, also on driver's side. Have a look - Thanks

ah64pilot

I don't think that is an "N" crank, the "N" would be cast on the same counterweight as the numbers. Also, those heads are "GA" heads from a 1972 455...they have large valves just as you described.

I'm pretty sure your block is a 1970. The "3" next to the distributor hole is 1970 + the Julian Date "178" = 1970 June 27

72 w29 all green

I think those are CA heads, not GA (with the small A). The casting number is 394548A which isn't for the GA heads.

ah64pilot

Yeah, you're right...I just referenced an old pair.

don71

CA heads are 1969, I think they came in deltas and maybe other models. They were small valve units. Don't know other details I've probally forgotten them.



[img=http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/3998/mvc015skz1.th.jpg]

joe_padavano

The VIN derivative is 39M... which is a 1969 model year, Lansing built motor. The CA heads were also 1969, so they may be original to this motor. The oil pan is Toro, the intake is not. I'm not sure where you're getting that this is a 73 motor.

ah64pilot

Joe, I thought the "3" on the back of the block near the distributor hole was 1970? If not what does that "3" mean, I must have my wires crossed.

coldwar

My mistake, long day. 1969 it is then, Thanks all. CW


EDIT: Oh..... how did I think 1973, 3 for year, 9 for 98, M for Lansing. Stuck in the 1950's dating, had a brain fade. CW

J-(Chicago)

I agree with Joe. 69 motor.

3=Oldsmobile division
9=1969 year
m=Lansing Stamp

#=vin derivative

178= 178th day of 1969

J-(Chicago)

My guess is that it was originally a 2 bbl motor. That would explain the orphan intake.

wmachine

I'll go along with you there, pilot, except that 3 is not for 1970. I can tell you for sure that the 3 is *not* for the year, it is what GM calls a "mold number". More accurately, it is a pattern number. It is used for traceability of the casting *along with* the date code.

It has long been thought that the number was the year, and it is nothing more than coincidence as the the earlier pattern numbers were used earlier in the production years.

ah64pilot

That was the explanation I needed...thank you! So the pattern numbers 1 and 2 just sort of happened to coincide with '68 and '69...now I see why people are thinking the "3" is '70 like myself.

507OLDS

This is what I have found to coincide with the number next to the distributor hole.The year of the run,since it was started.They first started casting the 455 in 1967,for the upcoming 1968 year,so this is what i think it all means:
67 = 1
68 = 2
69 = 3
70 = 4
71 = 5
72 = 6
73 = 7
74 = 8
75 = 9

I am by no means Jesus Christ,but so far,those numbers have jived with every block that I have ever owned,and the cars.
So,the 3 and the 178 should stand for the 178th day of 1969.I have also noticed that the cranks are usually cast very close to the same day of the block,so that might tell you if that crank is original to the block,but if it is not,it doesn't matter.I see that it has the provision for the pilot bearing,so that is a plus.The 397363 is the casting for the "N" or CN cranks,so yes,it is nodular.I have seen plenty of cranks where the last "3" is missing.I say the heads were mated to that block originally,since the julian dates are about 20 days after the block,but again,doesn't really matter.That intake is from an earlier 60's 425. The 69 455's that I have had,with the CA heads,all came from 69 deltas,with 2bbls.No special significance there,but explains the possible intake change.

wmachine

Sorry, but your findings are strictly coincidental. The documentation for the "mold number" is shown here on Wild About Cars:
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50
I collected quite a few block numbers myself specifically trying to confirm what that number is, and besides the documentation, I found a number of them that definitely do not *not* correspond to the year.
As pilot says, it is easy to see why it was thought to be the year. But it is not.
It is far from worthless for the year, though, because the mold number can *in most cases* can put it into the right year. It's just not 100%.

507OLDS

Yes,I realize that it is pure coincidence,as there is no proof,but of the 50+ cars that I have owned,plus the countless blocks & such that I have owned,they have all fell right into that line of possibility.I haven't had one that hasn't followed that,or made me think otherwise.
As far as comparing a julian date of when it was cast,versus when the car was built,I have seen a variance anywhere from 12-45 days.Sometimes less,sometimes more.My all-original 71 442,that was built in June(6A),had some parts 60 days before the build date.My all-original 70 W30,with a 12A build date,has a block that was cast on the 325th day of 69,and everything on that car has dates much closer the the build date of the car.How long does it sit after being cast,before it is actually used,is a time span that would always vary.

coldwar

The info here provides more food for thought. Kurt will concur our area which is northern Ohio was saturated with cars such as we are discussing, I still can't recall seeing these on any car being scrapped or in for service, and quick inquiry to other friends also draws a blank. I have seen plenty of 455 2-bbl engines with 'C' heads, with 2.0" and 2.07" intakes, indeed several sets I still have are from these exact engines as they were common here. On a quick glance I am wondering if the 'ca' head has a larger combustion chamber in the 2.0" valve size then the standard 'C', as it seems larger with less shrouding at valve sides regardless of the smaller intake valve size. Time does not presently allow checking sets for this answer, but it really isn't a big issue. This engine does have very dished pistons, which would then be a odd combination of parts yielding a 'very low for 1969' CR, if the chamber did prove much larger as appearances suggest to me. What paperwork confirms for us the use of these in 88's in late 1969? Again, it isn't that important to know the exactitudes, so I will rest with the report of original use for these, even though no one I know has ever seen them in a period car - CW

J-(Chicago)

69 2 bbl motors would have 30cc dished pistons.

wmachine

The dish and the notch id of the factory pistons is shown in the CSM, linked to here, courtesy of Wild About Cars:
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50

coldwar

http://forums.aaca.org/f138/ca-heads-167908.html

CW