GCH

Would be intresting to read if somebody have an EFI kit or Edelbrock carb on their engines.
EFI are beginning to be popular here and Edelbrocks sitting in many US cars. Have an Edelbrock
1406 with electric choke in my GMC and this carb have worked awesome in both cold winter and
hot summerdays. Have not touch it in 9 years more than replacing air filter.

cutlassefi

I’ve done about 8 or 10 EFI’d Olds, all multiport.

GCH

Hi is it Holley Sniper or something other EFI system ?

Bubba68CS

Sniper is a TBI system, not multiport. I have one for my 425 build, but haven't been able to get it going yet (project snowballed into a HUGE powertrain revamp).

joe_padavano

The stock Qjet works awesome in hot and cold conditions also, assuming it is adjusted to factory spec.

cutlassefi

I don’t regard any of the TBI systems (ie Sniper, FITech etc.) as fuel injection. Imo they’re nothing more than glorified electronic carbs.
My ‘72 has had multiport EFI on it since ‘04. I’ll never go back to a carb. Biggest addition is infinite spark control. That can help a lot.

GCH

Yes i had TBI in my Chevy truck i owned in 10
years and this worked well.

Is the Qjet known to be "better" than 4 GC Joe ?
Hope i can adjust my 4 GC properly. The 2 GC i
got in my Dynamic works well.

GCH

Thanks för info Cutlassefi , have not heard so much about multiport here , most Fitech, Sniper and such TBI system . But EFI it,s intresting to
read about.

Destructor

My Eddlebrock carb has worked very well but if the car originally came with a 4 barrel I would has stuck with the Q jet. Going with Eddlebrock for me was the quickest and easiest route to go from the stock 2 to 4 barrel. Every car I owned with a Q jet ran very well and always started easily no matter the temperature.

GCH

My 2GC in my Dynamic works very good at warmer temp but is very hard to start in freezing temp ,
but because it works so well summertime and i,m not driving in freezing temp i don´t adjust choke or
anything else. Have a little starting problems with my 98 now so something has happen.

cutlassefi

Here’s what you all are missing with EFI, spark control. The ability to add timing when cold and decay it out as the engine warms up is huge, absolutely, positively, huge. No conventional dist setup even comes close.
Add to that what is typically a very short “on the choke” segment of the overall tune and it results in cleaner oil, longer engine life and better overall efficiency vs ANY carb, hands down.

Destructor

Not missing anything, for me just not worth the expense or the bother when my current carb and points distributor work very well. My everyday driver was purchased with factory fuel injection.

Grayghost

Yup, for a week end toy, that you are not looking for every ouch of hp from, and are not putting tons of miles on, it might be nice, but not needed.
All the things Cutlass efi listed are true IF the efi is tuned correctly. but same is true of a carb'd engine and the limits of a distributor with just weights and a vacuum can.
Efi shines because once tuned, it will stay tuned unless a sensor fails or an injector gets dirty,stuck.
Engine life is a wives tail. you can get the same engine life out of a carb'd engine BUT it requires you to check on it's state of tune moving parts in the distributor wear and vacuum cans fail or leak, carbs get dirty and or the adjustments screws move over time. But when you check on these things like you are surpost to, a carb'd engine will go 300 thousand miles with no problem.
The problem is people are lazy. and either don't keep the engine in tune, or buy a new carb, drop it on it, and shut the hood, same with the timing advance . A carb'd engine with a correctly working choke will start right up and only stay on the choke as long as needed. Efi is a little better at this, but not by much, it doesn't need a human to pump the gas once, to prime the system, the electric pump does that for you on efi.
What those that thing efi is the best thing since sliced bread forget to tell you is.
1)older vehicles electric system has a bunch of electric noise that plays havick on the efi system and sensors. forcing you to move wiring, upgrade charging systems, and chase issues caused by the older vehicle electrical noise.
2) fuel injectors tend to stick when a vehicle sits Some in as little as a year. Those of us that have pulled many efi cars out of a garage or barn, or yard, know this, and to get them unstuck before trying to start it.
Efi, you can tune to a greater degree IF you know what you are doing. The self learning tune is far cry from a good tune. but it runs clean, and that is good enough for most customers.
But the guy that can really tune an efi for all it is worth will get more out of it, just like the guy that invest in a carb with adjustable air bleeds, and all the other circuits of the carb and knows how to build a timing curve for the engine set up. will get more out of it than the guy that slaps a edel carb on, or holley and does nothing to it, but set the idle mix screws and idle speed and shuts the hood.
Most don't have the skills to tune a carbed engine to that degree , even if they bothered to get a carb that you can tune everything. That standard holley d/p 750 doesn't allow all the adjustments needed and most don't want to spend the money on the carbs that you can.
A q-jet is great at this if set up for that engine. Others don't come close. q-jets get hate because they are not as easy to tune as others, and to really do it you need to go past just the needle and seat.
Efi, it is plug a lap top into the ecu and change things without getting dirty. And having the computer tell you what needs changing.
No need to know how to read a plug. the ecu will log the air/fuel ratio at every rpm and load , showing the tuner where and what needs changing.
Efi has it's pluses, but carbs worked just fine for decades.
Truth be told, the carb engines lower life span before needing a rebuild was owners not bothering keeping the systems working correctly, and that time frames motor oils. .
Efi has better cold start fuel control, but not many with an old car are starting and driving them in 35* winter temps.
You will never get better timing control, with those bolt it on tbi systems, like the sniper. unless you install a new distributor with all the timing controls locked out. and have the ecu of the sniper adjust the firing. but now you are into a efi tbi and a new or your reworked distributor. If it can control yours. So now a new distributor, new efi, new fuel pump, wiring, maybe a return line and tank, and sender. For not much gain, as far as a week end cruiser.
Now that said. IF you are in the middle of a build and need to buy a new tank, sender, fuel pump, carb, ignition system etc anyways, EFI is a no brainer as the cost are not that much more when you are buying it all new anyways.
But the guy with a running car they cruise around with, and it runs just fine. the 2800.00 buy in for multi port efi system and then wiring and tank,etc is a hard pill to swallow, to gain not having to touch the gas pedal when starting it.
Even the sniper without getting into controlling the timing, is 1600.00 if you are ok with a fuel pump outside the fuel tank. Want pump inside the tank, most efi baffled tanks are 400.00 and up. want to control the timing you need a ditributor that will work with the efi. There goes another 300+ that 999.00 sniper is now pushing 2k.
Wan REAL EFI you need to step up to multi port efi. No one makes an off the shelf system for an olds, but for this I will use a chevy for an example. the olds will be more brause you have to pay someone to install the injector bungs into a intake and make the fuel rails.
A holley HP bbc efi stsyem is 3200.00 That is harness(wiring) intake with injector bungs, fuel rails, throttle body and brackets, the ecu (computer) Then you buy the 8 injectors 300-700 dollars, the fuel pump or intank fuel pump and tank, 300-700.00 dollars, and make a return line . This is why many go LS the efi is more than a whole 6.2 ls take out with harness and ecu.
I have no idea what cutlassefi charges folks for efi on top of an engine he builds or whose ecu he uses.
But I doubt it is cheap.
Back when g.m. offered both a carb and tbi. on a vehicle. tbi got the same city mileage, and a whopping 1 mpg better highway.
The selling point of tbi back then was lack of service cost , you changed out the fuel filter every 45-50 thousand miles and air filter every 15-20 thousand that was it.. The carb needed to be cleaned maybe the idle speed adjusted and linkage cleaned, the mixture screws had anti tamper plugs covering them , for most drivers you could not get away with going 35-50 k without cleaning the linkage, and carb. only other benny was no need to touch the gas pedal when starting just turn the key. TBI was outdated junk when g.m. and ford installed them on most of their line. and they don't do anybetter 40 years later.

GCH

Thanks for input all , intresting to read all opinions about this. The TBI system i had in my -92 Chevy K2500
worked well the decade i owned this but carbs work good also , usually it,s no problem to start my truck with 305
and Edelbrock 1406 when it´s -20 C outside without choke . Need to pump the gas pedal some times and
hold the rpm up a couple of minutes and then it´s running on idle.

cutlassefi

Grayghost I’m not not going to comment on your entire post but just an FYI, modem cars are in “cold start/choke” mode for all of about 30-45 seconds. You can get by with that short of a choke mode on a carb’d application? I don’t believe that for one minute.

Grayghost

Modern cars get away with that, because of alot of other things than just efi fuel control.
Most old classic, hobby, week end fun vehicles are not being driven in 35* and cold starting and on fast idle and choke.
You know this. ,I know this. A carb 'd vehicle started on a cool 60* day is on the choke a minute or less.
Let me guess, one of those mpefi set up's you build to top an olds engine is 2500-3000.00 or more. over and above the engine itself.
Efi has it's place, but for owners that cruise around in their week end toy, and get on it, a few times and are not looking for that last thousandths of a second e.t at the track. not driving it in the cold weather season, but maybe on one or two late fall days.
You gain nothing but a lighter wallet.
I've been down the oem efi road with vehicles that sit for over a year, same with an Accell efi, and holley pro jection. injectors sticking after sitting is an issue, and fun week end cars tend to do this. The new breed tbi's can't keep the ecu's on the self contained units (fitech/holley sniper) from roasting to death. and injectors sticking after sitting.
If you are in a build and are going to be buying a new carb, distributor, tank, fuel pump,etc, efi might be a win win.
But the marketing push of for only 899.99 you can have efi is misleading at best, a down right lie at worst.
MPEFI systems are still more costly than a low mileage ls complete with ecu and harness.
Even the DIY mega squirtIII isn't wallet friendly. the M/SII was somewhat.
Feel free to post up what you charge for an olds intake with injector bungs installed, fuel rail made, brackets, injectors, harness, ecu, t/b, needed parts for full timing control by the efi ecu, the fuel pump and /or tank needed to support the efi required fuel psi, the efi fuel hose and connectors, regulator, and all the other supporting gear. I'll let you slide by without requiring the crank sensor and cam sensor for complete timing control. I know the real world cost.. So, what is the bill for an olds efi set up you drop on a customers engine. real world, not blowing smoke up readers butts.

cutlassefi

About 4K for a complete MPEFI system.
I doubt your choke is only on for a minute in 60* weather. And it’s still going to contaminate the oil more than any EFI.
I’m not a fan of the TBI stuff, I’ve said that many times. But you have some bad info. There are literally thousands and thousands of Sniper units running fine with no ECU failures. A vast majority of the issues are improper installs, even as much as someone not connecting it right to the battery as directed.
I have a convertible, with Cats. I can run it lean enough to make those cats work as designed , with 0 drive ability issues and virtually no fuel smell whatsoever. To me it’s worth it.
And another misconception is that EFI adds power vs a carb. Typically it doesn’t so track times won’t get better, maybe just more consistent.

olds 307 and 403

Unless the electric choke is set super lean, it says on a few minutes. I personally like the hot air choke because it only comes on below a certain temp. A good carb is OK but is not modern EFI. I apprenticed years ago with a 20 year Ford tech. He said, motor overhauls were easily cut in half after Ford switched to EFI. To be fair, dusty country conditions could have been causing the sticking needle and seats, saw a few of them. Or Ford's shitty, garden hose carbs washing the rings out.

joe_padavano

Any thermostatic choke with a bimetallic coil spring works that way, not just hot air. The coil sees ambient temperature when the car is sitting and moves to the same position no matter what the additional heat source is. Hot air, divorced choke, electric, or even hot water like on the old 4GC carbs. Before the engine is started, the choke will be in the same position for a given air temp, assuming the coil is adjusted properly.