COBRA2000

Hello...Im Steve from texas..I just purchased 1970 4 4 2 w-30 convertible..I want to install HEI system..What is the best brand and model # of the distributor that i need to install without having to do any modifications to the air cleaner or fire wall. Thank you!!!

oldcutlass

You will not have to perform any firewall mods with any HEI. All large cap HEI's have the same physical dimensions, There are small cap plug and play HEI's available that use a remote coil and may not require any air cleaner mods. Any HEI installation is not a drop in, you have to replace the stock resistance wire or run a new power wire and the stock timing settings become n/a. For your car, if its stock, why not do a points replacement and use your stock distributor? Then you won't see it and still have the advantage of not messing with points.

COBRA2000

Thank you for you info...I like HEI because i don't want to have to be messing with the points...I will only be driving the car 2-3 times a year...My past classics had points and they would corrode over time..I up graded them to HEI and never had any problems...

cfair

HEI is a good upgrade, just be sure to carry an extra module or 2 in the glove box. They die here and there on the road without warning.

To install, basically trace out the resistance wire from the key switch and substitute non-resistance wire to a 12volt switched source and you’re good to go. I recommend a thick 10 gauge wire to the unit to minimize in-wire resistance. In some color you’ll remember.

The advance curve is different from points distributors vs. HEI, be ready to turn the idle timing back a bit to avoid pinging at high rpm. HEI has more mechanical built in for reduced emissions, I believe.

Also remember the wires are different for HEI vs points. Plus you can run a bigger plug gap like .0045.

cheers
Chris

bccan

You’re not gonna fit that HEI with stock air cleaner. I would look into a small cap HEI (search this forum and/or internet) and be sure to also check what they have for advance rates & limits. As mentioned you need to run a new power wire that supplies full 12v through “ignition” position of key, it’s simple. Electronic conversion kit would make sense as an alternative, I haven’t used them & cant speak to reliability, Ive seen people swear by them as well as at them.

I am an HEI fan but a “big cap” unit is not the way I would go in your situation. Regardless of what you do, determine if the distributor that you presently have is correct for your 70 W30 & if it is don’t let anything happen to it that can’t be easily undone without leaving a mark.

COBRA2000

thank you sir...

redoldsman

You can put a Pertronix conversion in your current distributor and nobody will even notice it. That is what bccan is telling you.

COBRA2000

Is it good quality??

joe_padavano

I'm not sure how less reliability is an "upgrade"...

Seriously, people forget that HEI was NOT created for improved performance. It was created to satisfy EPA requirements that cars be able to meet emissions limits after 50,000 miles with no maintenance. The spark plugs and coil neither know nor care if the switch that triggered the spark was a mechanical one (points) or an electronic one. Yes, there are modern electronic ignition systems that provide computer control of advance curves and other features. The HEI is not one of them. Install it because you don't want to change points, but frankly, having to carry extra modules doesn't sound like an improvement to me.

redoldsman

Pertronix is not perfect as to quality. It is not going to add any power. It will make your car start a little quicker and have less maintenance. I have one in my 54 because the 54 distributor is a pain since it is not external adjustment points. If I had a distributor like you have I would go on ebay and buy some original Delco points and condenser made in the USA and not Mexico. The points part number are 1931988 and the condenser is 1932004. I was a parts guy over 50 years ago and still remember those numbers because we sold so many of them. There is also the uniset which is the points and condenser in one unit. That was a late introduction in my parts career (2 years) and I don't remember that part number. The points come wrapped in a foil covered orange and silver box.

COBRA2000

Thank ya'll very much for your input...

droptopron

If its a legit 1970 4 4 2 w-30 convertible, you shouldn't mess around too much considering its a $100K car.
Alos, surprised nobody mentioned it, but HEI is the name of the electronic ignition used by GM. A lot of people use it universally for all electronic ignition.
Reliability wise, no system is failure free. If you want to maintain stock looks use your current distributor with either a Pertronix or Crane/FAST electronic ignition conversion.

COBRA2000

thank you!!

joe_padavano

Yeah, I've given up on that one...

cutlassefi

I don’t use the Pertronix units anymore, too many failures. Been using the FAST XRi with great results. Has a reliable rev limiter as well.

COBRA2000

How do you like it VS points???

matt69olds

Unless it’s a daily driver, how often do you need to adjust or replace points? When these cars were new point replacement was a yearly ritual. Considering most of these cars are nice weather cruisers I would suspect points would last several years. As for HEI, I have been driving since the mid 80s, and have had 1 ignition module failure. I think the module failure reputation is a little exaggerated. I think when HEI was first introduced, there were some reliability concerns, I think Delco got it figured out. As long as you use the heat transfer paste when swapping modules they work well.

droptopron

on both points, I think an issue today is the quality of the replacement parts. They ain't what they used to be.

joe_padavano

Apparently the same can be said for HEI modules, if one needs to carry spares.

cutlassefi

Timing seems to be more stable and of course the rev limiter is nice.

redoldsman

on both points, I think an issue today is the quality of the replacement parts. They ain't what they used to be.

See post #10. They are still available but not for the price they used to be.

Schurkey

HEI is THE MOST RELIABLE electronic ignition system on the planet--IF (big IF) the parts are made to OEM spec or better, and you don't replace modules without at least testing the ignition coil resistance and spark-power.
1. There's always been lots of crappy modules sold at discount prices. With the Chinese involved, you not only have to buy quality name brands, you have to buy from a trustworthy source so you don't get counterfeit parts in a genuine-looking box.
2, The common problems with HEI were all discovered eons ago. Pickup coil wires break, centrifugal weights and pivot pins wear, modules die when the ignition coil short-circuits internally. Don't run the gap larger than .045.
3. The first few model years of HEI had some problems. There was a fair amount of re-design done, and those problems were solved. If someone tells you that "HEI won't rev over 4500 rpm", you know they're still stuck in 1975.
4. HEI may have been an "emissions thing", but there's no question that it's got more spark power than points, or any electronic ignition that uses a ballast resistor/resistor wire,

cutlassefi

A lot of myths here. The coil will only put out what the spark plug gap demands, no more no less. So if you open the gap of the plug to where it’s stressing the coil to its limit, that will shorten coil life.
And the old modules were the limiting factor, around the preconceived 4500 RPM limit. What would happen is the available voltage/amperage/millijoules would drop off dramatically. Most of the aftermarket modules now address that. However a majority of those are still made in China, even the name brands.

COBRA2000

Thanks of all your help guys!!! I think im going to try this one.... https://performancedistributors.com/...i-streetstrip/ Opinions are welcome...

redoldsman

I think if you are not looking to increase performance you are wasting money. Since it is a W30, I would go to ebay and get the original Delco points and condenser and use them. You are saving lots of money and keeping a W30 original. Then, that is just me.

droptopron

Pls see response #5 - it most likely won't fit with your air cleaner

COBRA2000

My car arrives here next week.So I will let you know the results..

droptopron

A pic of the engine bay would help. Is it supposed to be 100% stock?

COBRA2000

yes

COBRA2000

67OAI

If you have not purchased something already, you may want to check with "Distributor Dave" at davessmallbodyheis.com. He will modify your distributor to real GM HEI.

Bubba68CS

I tend to agree. I've had three HEI cars - none have ever had a failure, including the one retrofitted into my 68 that's been in there for 16 years now. That car has been daily driven for years at a time, sat for years at a time, and run randomly here and there. No matter how it was used, I've never had to even think about the distributor. Can't even remember what parts are in there...Accel, I think...

Fun71

Regarding HEI module failures, Schurkey is spot-on. Back in the 80s I worked at a NAPA store and in the back of the ignition book (yes, we had books then instead of computers) there was a section with pictures showing the construction differences between the AC Delco modules, NAPA / Echlin modules, and cheap off-brand modules. The cheap modules had low quality circuit boards that would warp /crack due to thermal cycling, poor soldering of components to the circuit boards, etc. Your basic low quality junk construction. It was really neat to see the failure analysis pictures to understand what could fail and also why a good quality module was important.

COBRA2000

thank you soo much!!! i'll give him a call

COBRA2000

Update...Well come to find out my car has the pertronix-1 already installed..I found this out by my mechanic which he is installing the pertronix-3 system in it.... So it will let ya'll know how this goes....

cfair

If you have pertronix, you have almost everything HEI can offer. Except maybe the fact that the parts might be a little hard to find.

I switched over to hei long ago naively figuring that GM made a quality & performance decision replacing points with hei. The switch seemed in keeping with retrofitting internally regulated alternators, later safer Quadrajet designs, and better disc brakes.

At the time I found points and dwell bothersome. I didn’t really make time to dig in and understand mechanical points ignition systems. So I went for the simpler electronic solution. Little did I know it was really designed for rising emissions standards. I’ve been working on timing with low effort for years and am now digging in.

My impression is that making HEI time ignition events like points is doable, but time consuming for a amateur like me. But I’m getting there.

Chris

olds 307 and 403

I would bet unstable voltage and subpar parts are the issue. I blew a HEI ignitor 3 module in my 70S. I found a bad crimp I put on to run off the battery terminal in the fuse box, only 7 to 8 Volts. Proper crimp 13.5 Volts. There is the MSD, Pertronix and Chinese no name small cap HEI. Some like my Mallory small cap I am now running were designed to run off points voltage. I added a Mallory 6AL box so 12+ volts is now Ok. You need 12+ Volts for most, there is a terminal in the fuse box with the proper voltage. Most will require HEI style wires which clip in better anyways, the original wires probably need replacement anyways.

joe_padavano

Without knowing the advance curves in this HEI distributor, there is no way to know if 14 before is the right initial timing. The thermal switch is intended to switch from ported to full manifold vacuum if the engine starts to overheat. It is unrelated to whether you have points or HEI. If you run full manifold vacuum at all times, you obviously don't need the thermal switch.

6844268

thanx joe, im trying to get that curve info, i too dont drive the car much and i live in the northeast where from sitting the points give me issues with dampness. gasoline really sucks these days too...

oldcutlass

Define pinging at high speeds, are we talking WOT or cruising and light throttle? If its cruising at light throttle, disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the line. It may be getting too much advance with the vacuum connected. You distributor should have 18-21*ish of mechanical advance.