s i 442

I changed out my stock intake for an aluminum one today and used Ultra Black for the ends.
I took it for a test run and came back to check everything only to find the rear end sealer blew out from end to end!
I ordered new gaskets again and WILL use the rubber end gaskets because they have never failed me on an Olds engine. What a freakin mess!

joe_padavano

Did you let the RTV cure fully? A thick bead like that will probably need at least 24 hr to cure, possibly more. If it really did "blow out", you have excessively high crankcase pressure from something. I'd find and fix that first.

jpc647

It must have been an intake changing weekend, I spent the day Saturday changing my intake too.

I ordered the felpro kit, the valley pan one. part # ms96009. Just for reference.

I used the included tube of rtv for the water ports on both sides of the gasket and then used permatex high tack(brush on in a can) on both sides of the exhuast ports(this may not be the best for those intake ports, but it's all I had. Something more high temp might be better).

It was definitely a two person job though. One to hold the gasket in place, while the other brushed the mating surfaces, and two to lift the intake into place.

Torqued everything to 15lbs first, then went around again bringing them all to 30lb. I know Edelbrock recommended 25, but that didn't seem like enough to me. After a couple heat cycles and a 75 mile trip, I retorqued 10 out of the 12 bolts(can't get to two of them with the carb on) back to 30-31 lbs and I'll check them in a week or two just to see if they loosened up.

What a pain in the butt the whole process was though...

Kennybill

Also clean sealing area with alcohol good. I've had good luck with both ways. It does sound like a pressure problem as what you have described "blow out." Ken

72 w29 all green

X2 on the 24-hours for full cure, but if you wanted to use something other than the original end rail rubbers, then you should have used something like The Right Stuff. It might be about the same color as Ultra Black but that's where the similarities end. I've used it in place of the end rails and NO leaks. It's expensive but it works well.

1970-W30

kennybill brings up a good point, the end rails MUST be oil free for whatever sealer is used to get an strong seal, I use a shop rag soaked with some Acetone to remove any oily residue, never have any problems.......
Now if you don't have a good crankcase ventilation system, then all bets are off........

s i 442

Wonder what the deal is, I have a PVC valve in the pass valve cover and a breather in the dr side. 67 E400.

oldcutlass

How long did you let it cure? I too have used the rubber end seals for 40 years with only one failure, due to over torqueing and milled heads.

s i 442

Not 24 hours. Im not waiting that long when I could use the rubber ends seals and be driving in two hours!!!

tecar442

I used the Right Stuff and the rubbers, let it cure, and had no leaks and no problems. Better to have it right than right now. Use little patience and you won't have to do it twice.

Octania

Silicone is slippery, and not needed on the rubber, use either/or

Fat bead of sillycone

or

clean dry rubber- as long as the gap is factory sized.

Way back on my first engine, I used silicone on the rubber, because it was new and the greatest thing ever. As soon as I drew down the intake bolts- a few minutes later- the rubber seal smished out of place.

442rocketdave

I like the right stuff grey and let it cure overnight and I dimple the china walls and the intake with a small punch then clean the crap out of it with acetone and then the right stuff and torque it and leave it till the next day. The last time I had one blow out was in the 70s when I used one of the rubber end seals! Never again. We all have different experiences.

s i 442

Got my "Mr. Gasket" intake gaskets and it didn't come with the rubber end gaskets, it came with the cork gaskets, use, yes or no???

442rocketdave

Well we all have our ways but I dont use the end gaskets and havent for a long time, I use the right stuff grey and let it sit over night but if you use them make sure the china walls are clean and dry and the intake is also then use it on both sides. The main thing is to let it dry and the grey dries quicker and all the way thru.

Octania

"China Walls" ??

Really?

Is that like a china fart?

s i 442

Well my gut feeling said don't use the cork gaskets so I got a brand new tube of ultra black and laid a nice thick bead all away across the " China walls", installed the intake and now will let sit until tomorrow evening.

442rocketdave

You will be fine the grey just sets up faster, when you use a bead so large it takes a little longer to set, I know if these blow out there is something else wrong!

s i 442

Well, Finally got to start the 442 after resealing the intake with new gaskets and sealer on the ends.
And guess what? It leaks now more than it did the first time and the front leaks also!!!
It leaks so bad it puddles on the floor!
I give up, Im not taking it apart again.
It will sit until I die or somebody buys it, yes its going to be one of those stories!

oldcutlass

To me it would get personal, I could never let a job get the better of me.

s i 442

The day you stop taking a loss is the day you start making money.
I couldn't care less if the car every moves again, I was just messing with it for a side project, its not worth another set of intake gaskets and all that time and work.

Octania

Another set of eyes might be in order.
Either you have way too much pressure in the crankcase- you could just leave the oil fill cap off for a test- or your leak is not coming from the intake end rails.

Common leaks sources are
oil filter adapter with incorrect Toronado gasket
missing plug in block's main oil passages at the aft end.

Got any photos of this leak source?

s i 442

Didn't leak with the factory intake , bathtub gasket and rubber end pieces.

oldcutlass

The day you stop taking a loss is the day you start making money. The problem with throwing up your hands and giving up, your not only taking the loss, but your losing money also.


Is this a new or used intake your putting on? Post some pictures of the leaking gasket material with the intake still attached. Is it on the silver car?

Greg Rogers

Just noticed this thread. I am in the middle of a intake gasket problem on my 350 small block but my problem is a vacuum leak. Please don't give up on your car, I know it's really frustrating, but after you get it (and you will) it'll be very satisfying. Could there be a problem with the aluminum intake?

s i 442

If I don't spend $25 more on gaskets that is a gain.
And how in the world am I supposed to take a pic of the back of the intake while its on the engine???

Yes its the silver one.

oldcutlass

Is it a new intake? You said it was leaking in the front and back. Did you torque the intake bolts from the outside in, going around the sequence twice?

Did the engine have any blowby before you swapped the intakes?

If you want to sit and pout, that's your business.

s i 442

Mind your own buisness.

f-85

Here are a few things i always do and it always works. I have done it this way for years and works well.

Clean the surfaces really good with brake clean on a clean rag.

I ALWAYS use Permatex Ultra Grey!!! And never use the rubber end seals.

I always torque from the inside out in increments, and go around 4 times to make it even.

I give it a few hours to dry and it works great. That permatex ultra grey is like super glue of sealants. If you use this method and the way i do it, you will never have a leak!!!

oldcutlass

You come on here asking for advice, you don't answer peoples questions, you pop off with ignorant and stupid quips, and you expect some sympathy. Not from me my friend.

s i 442

I never ask you to answer anything for me, as a matter of fact find the ignore button and use it, I don't need you sarcastic my way or the highway attitude. Buzz off.

s i 442

Yea I didn't see the grey at Autozone it must have been out.
And yes I tourque from the middle out and like you it takes me about 15 good minutes before Im satisfied with the bolts!
It rained today so I did take it back apart and the permatex was stuck like glue to the engine block but was as slick as snot where it was supposed to stick to the intake.
I did use lacquer thinner on all surfaces and even a file to make sure all was flat. Something going on with either the intake or the block because they don't match up real well and after putting on thick gaskets that really doesn't help at all.
Im going to leave it all sit awhile and forget it for now.

joe_padavano

OK, kids, play nice. Don't make me turn this thread around.

joepenoso

never ask you to answer anything for me, as a matter of fact find the ignore button and use it, I don't need you sarcastic my way or the highway attitude. Buzz off.
See................... people care about you getting it done right ......................no need to get pissed off. You came on for help and then got it.
It's not an impossible accomplishment
You can do it
Just remember it's not fool proof....................................... and something can go wrong
joepenoso
__________________

Greg Rogers

Well, I am going to use the Ultra Grey (or is it called Right Stuff?) on mine, I had already bought Ultra Black but I'm not going to use it.

442rocketdave

Clean off everything when you get ready and then put the intake on and measure how much clearance between the manifold and block, also make sure your PCV is clear and Does your engine have blow by coming out of the valve covers? Do a compression check and a leak down test and x2 what F85 said on installing the intake I do it the same exact way and never have a leak, If you check your cylinders with a compression check and leak down you will rule out bad rings or valves causing excessive blowby. DONT GIVE UP, take a break and remember you can get it fixed. take some pics and let others on this site get a look and maybe one of us can spot the problem.

olds 307 and 403

How thick did you put it on the end rails? You need to build it up about an inch high.

442rocketdave

Greg, its the Permatex Ultra Grey and it is twice as good as the black, take the time to super clean the china walls, ie block and the manifold put one large bead that will be enough to fit instead of squeezing two beads like I have seen others do and torque the manifold to 15lbs and then 30lbs then let it sit overnight, then recheck everything the next morning fire it up check for leaks drive it for 20 minutes or so then let it sit and cool down then retorque.

Greg Rogers

Thanks Dave, I'll do it.

Mak

I used the ultra-grey without the rubber end gaskets and put a large enough bead that it oozed out a little... I ended up letting it cure for 3 days, due to my work schedule... I probably used a little too much, but after a couple hundred miles, no signs of leaks yet.

442rocketdave

Good job Mak! How is the performance since you installed the manifold?