first start
#1
first start
I replaced the cam, lifters, rockers, intake+carb, and most ignition parts.
I can get the engine to fire, but it won't turn over...how do I get the timing close enough to start it? I eyeballed it to 0 degrees TDC and rolled it back a bit. the new intake doesn't allow enough clearance to turn the distributor as much as I'd like.
also, I took the power steering pump pulley off, and there is an indention on the shaft and the pulley?? is there a pin of some kind that goes there? I couldn't find one.
car is a 1968 olds delta 88.
I can get the engine to fire, but it won't turn over...how do I get the timing close enough to start it? I eyeballed it to 0 degrees TDC and rolled it back a bit. the new intake doesn't allow enough clearance to turn the distributor as much as I'd like.
also, I took the power steering pump pulley off, and there is an indention on the shaft and the pulley?? is there a pin of some kind that goes there? I couldn't find one.
car is a 1968 olds delta 88.
#3
I replaced the cam, lifters, rockers, intake+carb, and most ignition parts.
I can get the engine to fire, but it won't turn over...how do I get the timing close enough to start it? I eyeballed it to 0 degrees TDC and rolled it back a bit. the new intake doesn't allow enough clearance to turn the distributor as much as I'd like.
also, I took the power steering pump pulley off, and there is an indention on the shaft and the pulley?? is there a pin of some kind that goes there? I couldn't find one.
car is a 1968 olds delta 88.
I can get the engine to fire, but it won't turn over...how do I get the timing close enough to start it? I eyeballed it to 0 degrees TDC and rolled it back a bit. the new intake doesn't allow enough clearance to turn the distributor as much as I'd like.
also, I took the power steering pump pulley off, and there is an indention on the shaft and the pulley?? is there a pin of some kind that goes there? I couldn't find one.
car is a 1968 olds delta 88.
The notch in the PS pump shaft is a keyway. The pulley should have a matching notch, and you should have a key like the one between the crank and harmonic damper.
#4
When I installed the distributor, I had the valve cover off and put #1 to the compression stroke, and did the firing order off of that. The distributor is a points unit with a pointless kit, and an MSD blaster 2 coil, and won't clear the offy intake. Today I will completely revise the system to make sure the firing order is right, and it isn't 180 out.
The power steering pump shaft and pulley have a notch in, neither has an outward notch. It's nothing like the harmonic balancer.
The power steering pump shaft and pulley have a notch in, neither has an outward notch. It's nothing like the harmonic balancer.
#5
When I installed the distributor, I had the valve cover off and put #1 to the compression stroke, and did the firing order off of that. The distributor is a points unit with a pointless kit, and an MSD blaster 2 coil, and won't clear the offy intake. Today I will completely revise the system to make sure the firing order is right, and it isn't 180 out.
The power steering pump shaft and pulley have a notch in, neither has an outward notch. It's nothing like the harmonic balancer.
The power steering pump shaft and pulley have a notch in, neither has an outward notch. It's nothing like the harmonic balancer.
I don't know what you mean by "a notch in". By definition, a notch is a female feature. The shaft should have a notch on the OD, the pulley should have a notch on the ID. There should be a separate key that goes in the notch and keeps the two oriented. The pulley is retained by a nut.
Here's the notch in the pulley:
This photo shows the pump shaft with the key installed in the notch. The key is semi-circular and the notch in the pump shaft is rounded at the bottom to fit it.
#6
Okay, so the key disappeared somewhere along the way...can I attack a penny with a bench grinder to get something to make it work? Is there a substitute I can get?
I don't have a shop, the car is parked on the street in front of my friends house, I keep my tools in the trunk, and if anything falls out of the engine bay it is carried away by the drainage on the street. Less than ideal, but it's what I've got.
I don't have a shop, the car is parked on the street in front of my friends house, I keep my tools in the trunk, and if anything falls out of the engine bay it is carried away by the drainage on the street. Less than ideal, but it's what I've got.
#7
No I wouldn't try the backyard penny approach. Unless you want to do things twice or three...A decent auto parts store should have a selection keys to choose from. Tell them you need a woodruff key and what you're working on.
I will admit, not a fun search, but you got do this right.
I will admit, not a fun search, but you got do this right.
#8
okay got home. found the woodruff key, it landed on the framerail and was saved.
I'm going to re-assemble the p/s and put the rad/fan/shroud back on, and then mess with the timing.
damn school, takes up 80% of my oldsmobile tinkering time
I'm going to re-assemble the p/s and put the rad/fan/shroud back on, and then mess with the timing.
damn school, takes up 80% of my oldsmobile tinkering time
#10
[QUOTE=damn school, takes up 80% of my oldsmobile tinkering time [/QUOTE]
Try being a Prof, it's more like 90%
Let us know how things turn out with the timing. I'm installing a new HEI and performer intake, along with a cam, lifters, and springs. Not the same as you but I don't mind learning from other's mistakes
Try being a Prof, it's more like 90%
Let us know how things turn out with the timing. I'm installing a new HEI and performer intake, along with a cam, lifters, and springs. Not the same as you but I don't mind learning from other's mistakes
#11
okay, I think I found the problem. as long as I am on the starter, it runs fine, but as soon as I let the trigger go, it dies.
I pulled the coil wire out of the distributor, turned the key on, and did not get a constant spark, however it does spark vibrantly when I crank the engine.
the alternator is not installed.
this is a MSD blaster 2 coil, which does not need a ballast resister....right?
I haven't touched the electrical system in this car, did I accidentally make a problem somewhere, or is there something I am overlooking?
I pulled the coil wire out of the distributor, turned the key on, and did not get a constant spark, however it does spark vibrantly when I crank the engine.
the alternator is not installed.
this is a MSD blaster 2 coil, which does not need a ballast resister....right?
I haven't touched the electrical system in this car, did I accidentally make a problem somewhere, or is there something I am overlooking?
#13
It sounds like your missing the run circuit from the key switch. Did you connect 2 wires to your coil + terminal. There is 1 wire from the starter and 1 wire (the resistance wire) from the plug on the firewall.
#15
Shouldn't be another, I believe your problem lies with the resister wire coming from the firewall plug, or I believe the pink wire from under the dash. You can run a temporary jumper to the coil plus terminal from the battery to start it.
#16
when the key is on I get 3.7 volts at the positive side of the coil, when I attempt to crank it, I get 8-10.
I jumped it with an old extension cord, and had a hard time holding it to the battery/coil and have a hand free for the starter, and a free hand for the carb. it definately stumbled longer. I am hesitant to wire in the extension cord to the battery/coil in case I have to kill it fast, but I guess I have to try. I can't see anything out of the ordinary in the wiring that would cause this problem...where does the resistance wire start? is it the entire thing?
I jumped it with an old extension cord, and had a hard time holding it to the battery/coil and have a hand free for the starter, and a free hand for the carb. it definately stumbled longer. I am hesitant to wire in the extension cord to the battery/coil in case I have to kill it fast, but I guess I have to try. I can't see anything out of the ordinary in the wiring that would cause this problem...where does the resistance wire start? is it the entire thing?
#18
its probably the connector under the MC then, I checked the connectors at the coil.
in other news, the engine does run, and of course I found a few problems with it as soon as I started it-most importantly, the primarys on the carb do not work, only the secondaries do.
anyone have any ideas? no amount of carb cleaner did anything.
the engine will simply not run unless I am holding the secondaries open. if I pump the throttle a few times, it will fire, stutter, not continue to run. carbs are not my specialty.
in other news, the engine does run, and of course I found a few problems with it as soon as I started it-most importantly, the primarys on the carb do not work, only the secondaries do.
anyone have any ideas? no amount of carb cleaner did anything.
the engine will simply not run unless I am holding the secondaries open. if I pump the throttle a few times, it will fire, stutter, not continue to run. carbs are not my specialty.
#19
also, the pushrods are wearing against the pushrod guides, so I need to buy hardened ones.
can someone give me a link to what I need to buy? I went on summit and couldn't figure out what I need.
Edit: ordered new pushrods
can someone give me a link to what I need to buy? I went on summit and couldn't figure out what I need.
Edit: ordered new pushrods
Last edited by 1976Oldswagon; October 11th, 2013 at 11:47 AM.
#20
hosed the carb down with carb cleaner, and tapped it with a hammer to un-stick anything inside. I don't think the jets are clogged, because its BOTH primaries.
when I crank the engine and don't hold the throttle open, I can see the inline filter gets dry every time the engine pulls some air, is this because of the idle circuit?
when I crank the engine and don't hold the throttle open, I can see the inline filter gets dry every time the engine pulls some air, is this because of the idle circuit?
#23
only on the secondaries.
the current status of the 88:
pushrods wearing on pushrod guides, hardened ones in the mail
still deciding on headers.
looking for second hand MSD 6A.
carb is fubar. exhibiting symptoms of a computer controlled carb without a computer, vehicle it was removed from and date code say it SHOULD be a CC unit, but there is no electrical connectors on the carb for the computer. also says its off of an '83 caddy with a manual transmission...so...it might just be a freak.
may buy new one, may rebuild it, may have it rebuilt by someone who knows what they are doing.
as soon as the pushrods come in, I will adjust the valves one last time, put on the valve covers/AC+alternator brackets/cooling system and finish anything else I can, its starting to get cold and the motorcycle isn't going to cut it for too much longer, this car needs to get done.
#24
Sounds like the idle circuit is plugged somewhere. No amount of spraying down the venturies will fix this, only a rebuild.
Post some photos of the carb and the carb number. I've seen frankencarbs there were pieced together from mismatched parts. Did this car ever run correctly with that carb?
Post some photos of the carb and the carb number. I've seen frankencarbs there were pieced together from mismatched parts. Did this car ever run correctly with that carb?
#25
Sounds like the idle circuit is plugged somewhere. No amount of spraying down the venturies will fix this, only a rebuild.
Post some photos of the carb and the carb number. I've seen frankencarbs there were pieced together from mismatched parts. Did this car ever run correctly with that carb?
Post some photos of the carb and the carb number. I've seen frankencarbs there were pieced together from mismatched parts. Did this car ever run correctly with that carb?
I can't get my phone to connect to the computer right now, but here is the carb no. 17084231
#26
#28
I left the bolts that went with the carb at the salvage yard, the only ones that were remotely close enough were too long...so now there are nut spacers.
the engine will not idle.
I plugged every vac line I could find, I'm confident in saying that that isn't the problem.
the engine will not idle.
I plugged every vac line I could find, I'm confident in saying that that isn't the problem.
#29
What is your timing set to? The reason I ask is if the timing is too low, then you have to crank up the idle past the idle circuit. Is there access to the 2 idle/air mixture screws or are there little freeze plugs still there? I would unscrew those all the way out and spray carb cleaner in the ports and wipe off the needle screws. Then screw them all way all the way in and back them out 2 1/2 turns each.
#31
There is a piece of sheetmetal sticking up behind the primaries that I don't recognize.
And that looks like an electric choke to me - is your choke closing and operating properly?
- Eric
And that looks like an electric choke to me - is your choke closing and operating properly?
- Eric
#32
I know the piece of metal you are talking about, I have no idea what it is for, and it is clearly home made. it was on it when I got it/saw it run, so I haven't messed with it.
#33
First, you have a 1980s-vintage emissions carb. It is not a CCC carb, obviously. It is calibrated for 1980s truck-class emissions (light trucks have different requirements than automobiles).
Second, do you have the correct base gasket? These carbs often have different passages on the bottom that need to be sealed to the manifold correctly to avoid a vacuum leak. The wrong gasket will result in a leak and no idle.
Third, this is one of the crustiest carbs I have ever seen. A rebuild will do wonders.
Fourth, why this carb? It's set up for an entirely different application. This would NOT have been my first (or second) choice for this engine.
Fifth, the choke needs to be hooked up and functioning properly if you want any idle when the engine is cold.
Sixth, the piece of metal in question is a factory-installed baffle used on some Qjets.
Second, do you have the correct base gasket? These carbs often have different passages on the bottom that need to be sealed to the manifold correctly to avoid a vacuum leak. The wrong gasket will result in a leak and no idle.
Third, this is one of the crustiest carbs I have ever seen. A rebuild will do wonders.
Fourth, why this carb? It's set up for an entirely different application. This would NOT have been my first (or second) choice for this engine.
Fifth, the choke needs to be hooked up and functioning properly if you want any idle when the engine is cold.
Sixth, the piece of metal in question is a factory-installed baffle used on some Qjets.
#34
truck carb from the '80s-makes sense since I pulled it off of an '80s truck
I'm not sure, but it is one of the thickest carb gaskets I have ever seen, it goes around the outside of the carb, not through the "bridge" created by the gap between venturies.
a rebuild is probably going to happen, I just need this car on the road soon.
it was cheap, I'm broke, I needed something functional/rebuildable.
define cold. if I remember correctly, the choke on my cutlass kicked in at 57 degrees, every time I've tried to run it its been in the 80s. on that note, how do I hook up an electric choke where there wasn't one before? switch in the interior?
cool. what was the purpose of the baffle?
I'm not sure, but it is one of the thickest carb gaskets I have ever seen, it goes around the outside of the carb, not through the "bridge" created by the gap between venturies.
a rebuild is probably going to happen, I just need this car on the road soon.
it was cheap, I'm broke, I needed something functional/rebuildable.
define cold. if I remember correctly, the choke on my cutlass kicked in at 57 degrees, every time I've tried to run it its been in the 80s. on that note, how do I hook up an electric choke where there wasn't one before? switch in the interior?
cool. what was the purpose of the baffle?
#35
#36
thanks for that thread, I will most likely do the second method using the relay.
once the new pushrods come in, I will install the alternator, and wire that up.
when I do rebuild the carb, what jets/metering rods should I order?
once the new pushrods come in, I will install the alternator, and wire that up.
when I do rebuild the carb, what jets/metering rods should I order?
#37
okay, made some more progress with the car.
new pushrods came in, after a minor freak out that they were longer than the ones I pulled out, and a phone call to Comp, they are installed and work fine.
if I pump the throttle 5 times, and hold the choke, the engine will start, and run as long as I hold the choke. after it warms, it has a VERY slow rough idle, that is most likely because the timing has never been set (I don't have 3 hands )
valve covers are on, hopefully for good, the alternator is going back on, along with the cooling system. I'm going to leave the AC compressor/system off for the time being.
how much smoke should come out of the PCV breathers? there was A LOT when it warmed up.
I put the coil back in the stock position, and unhooked my jumper line for the time being. I don't think the spark was strong enough with the timing as far off as I'm sure it is.
will post a pic of the engine bay later, it actually looks a lot better than I thought it would.
new pushrods came in, after a minor freak out that they were longer than the ones I pulled out, and a phone call to Comp, they are installed and work fine.
if I pump the throttle 5 times, and hold the choke, the engine will start, and run as long as I hold the choke. after it warms, it has a VERY slow rough idle, that is most likely because the timing has never been set (I don't have 3 hands )
valve covers are on, hopefully for good, the alternator is going back on, along with the cooling system. I'm going to leave the AC compressor/system off for the time being.
how much smoke should come out of the PCV breathers? there was A LOT when it warmed up.
I put the coil back in the stock position, and unhooked my jumper line for the time being. I don't think the spark was strong enough with the timing as far off as I'm sure it is.
will post a pic of the engine bay later, it actually looks a lot better than I thought it would.
#40
been a few days, but I got some work done.
pulled off the intake, replaced intake seals, enough RTV to seal the hole in my bank account this car is causing (okay maybe not)
put it all back together, installed alternator and half of the cooling system (missing a few hose clamps, thermostat, and I need an adapter, but nothing serious)
the car will start now, and it runs half decent, but it won't idle, and a few seconds after starting, it makes a tremendous sucking noise from the top of the carb, and it stalls unless I'm on the throttle.
its worse when I'm holding the choke
I can post a video tomorrow.
pulled off the intake, replaced intake seals, enough RTV to seal the hole in my bank account this car is causing (okay maybe not)
put it all back together, installed alternator and half of the cooling system (missing a few hose clamps, thermostat, and I need an adapter, but nothing serious)
the car will start now, and it runs half decent, but it won't idle, and a few seconds after starting, it makes a tremendous sucking noise from the top of the carb, and it stalls unless I'm on the throttle.
its worse when I'm holding the choke
I can post a video tomorrow.