I have a question for the olds family. Just throwing it out there. I have a 70 cutlass with a 455 board 40 over it’s basically just a cruiser I do not race. I do like to do long rides with her i’m thinking of doing power tour or sick week something like that this year I’ve never done either one, but it looks like a really good time. I do live on the East Coast I was debating or not to go to an EFI, possibly the sniper 2 or the sniper stealth anybody’s thoughts on either one?

 

How is your carb running?
Throttle body EFI is just a semi-smart carb. Certainly better than a messed up carb, but not necessarily better than a well running carb.
I've seen throttle body EFI that works just like you would hope and I've seen them cause their own problems (chugging/dying in parking lots, terrible transitions, etc). It Just Depends. The worst thing about the throttle body units is there isn't much control - so either it works or it doesn't. It sucks to spend all the money and time to get one set up just to find that it runs worse than your old carb.

 

I've run FITech throttle body as well as Snipers all the way to full MPFI and coil on plug with Holley. If you want a plug and play solution I think it's hit or miss. The sniper does OK learning but honestly if you want the most out of EFI you need to be willing to learn how to hook up a laptop and calibrate it correctly. The units and the software are quite capable but most of the real calibration tuning is only available with a laptop and not on the handheld. Another thing to consider is that most systems have the ability to control timing, cooling fans, and other outputs like nitrous.

 

You'll spend a lot of money and time on EFI and end up with something that won't serve your purposes any better than a well-tuned Q-Jet.

If you really want to spend money, there are probably ways to do it that would gain better results.

 

I’m not very popular on the Sniper Facebook page.

Holley had a definite quality control issue with the first sniper version. Enough people complained about the same consents to prove it wasn’t isolated problems. There is NO reason for injector plugs to fall off. Random O2 sensor failures. The touchy throttle, the list goes on. Supposedly Holley fixed the flaws when they released the updated sniper. Time will tell.

I have had more than my share of problems with Holley Sniper, one problem left me stranded almost 500 miles from home. It cost me 1000 bucks to rent a uhual truck and trailer to get the car home.

The biggest flaw (in my opinion) besides the substantial cost of EFI is the lack of user serviceable parts. I had an ecm fail on my 2nd Holley throttle body ( no data from the IAT or MAP sensors) which are built into the throttle body. You can’t service those parts separately. Lucky for me, I was able to put the car in open loop and drive the 100 miles home.

The Holley distributor failed on my way to the Olds club meet a few years ago. That was the trip I trailer the car home.

You aren’t walking into a Napa to buy replacement Sniper parts. Unfortunately, the spare ignition module you keep in the glove box isn’t enough, you need a spare throttle body in the trunk!

The ONLY advantage of sniper is the ability to control nitrous. I was able to eliminate slot of MSD boxes and controllers for the 2 step, nitrous retard, etc. As far as performance or economy, unless you have a badly out of tune engine, you won’t see an improvement in either. I get the same mileage, the car runs the same at the track.

I will admit, the last few years of Sniper ownership has been flawless. At the same time, I have been burned enough that I don’t trust it. The next time I have issues, the repairs will be on me, the Holley warranty has expired.

It’s no fun wondering if the car will make it from point A to point B, and back to point A.

 

I've done HRPT twice now with my 62 wagon and a carb. Stop believing the infomercials you see on the web. Cars drove cross country for decades before EFI was invented. More to the point, NO aftermarket system has a fraction of the money and time invested in engineering and testing that factory systems have. Couple that with installation and tuning that is often questionable, and common sense should tell you that no aftermarket system will be as reliable as a properly maintained factory system. And finally, where do you think you will find the proprietary repair parts for an aftermarket system if your EFI conversion breaks down on the road?

As far as Power Tour is concerned, my biggest regret was that I waited so long before I went the first time. It is an absolute blast.

 

Yeah, I was watching the No Nonsense Knowhow YouTube channel. He had a Dodge wagon with the original Sniper, ran like ****. He found 3 of the 4 injectior connectors undone. He got them back on and it did run better but not perfect. Holley sent him a Sniper 2, the car ran better. This guy is a Tech by trade and isn't an idiot like the guy on Junkyard Digs. Too bad he does plenty of Olds, he just sucks and is arrogant. I am just getting my SEFI together, not cheap or easy, using the Terminator X Max with the built-in 4L60E/4L80E control, when I find a 4L80E without a $1000 price tag. I went with an Ebay throttle body that takes a GM TPS and GM LS IAC, see if I regret that. The Holley distributors, I've heard failures, picked up a NOS Accel DFI dual sync distributor, supposedly pretty reliable but require wiring mods and different rotor phasing. I would skip the inline pump, know a guy who had nothing with issues on his 70 Cutlass. I am went with the Holley drop in 350 LPH module for 68 to 72 A bodies, see how that install goes. There is an old saying, you get what you pay for. Good luck.

 

Fitech and Holley both use OEM parts, usually early 90s GM TBI. Injectors are the "short" LS style.
I've been there; won't do it again without a real computer and SEFI. The tech support on those TBI systems is near nonexistent.

 

It's probably the Pro Comp unit. I have one - take a close look at the idle passage. Mine was so poorly machined that it leaked a significant amount of air when the nose was seated. In theory this doesn't matter - just set the idle screw accordingly - but it makes idle control much more difficult. It's hard to see how well this is done until the unit is connected to an ECU to park the IAC - the IAC should be partially retracted out of the box and the ECU initialization will park it. And gotta see if the ECU parks it fully open or fully closed.
Idle air control on patched-together aftermarket setups is a real pain. I switched to the Edelbrock throttle body but still took several rounds to get the IAC control correct.

 

My Holley Sniper was fairly easy to install a few years ago, using their intank pump, and started right up, however…
This unit was back to Holley twice for warranty work, and their tech support was either spot on, or crap.
I used a known Holley EFI guru to dial it in, runs great as expected, but all the time spent on the project could have to used elsewhere on the car.

 

If you’re hell bent on doing a TBI style unit, do the Terminator X only. Even those have a sketchy O2 strategy but are the best of the rest.
And do spark control, or don’t do EFI at all. The benefits are at least equal to the fuel side benefits.

 

But…But…But…carbs can’t adjust for altitude differences! Carbs can’t compensate for temperature swings!!! Carbureted engines are hard to start!!!

BULLSHIT!!!

Carburetors have been around FAR longer than EFI. When these vehicles were new, they were expected to start in any environment, without hassle or fiddling, by little old ladies on their way to bingo, preachers wearing their Sunday best, every time. People would not have been ok with going to work with their suit and tie smelling like an oily shop rag.
On cross country family vacations, dad didnt stop at the peak of the Rocky Mountains to retune the car. And again at the base of the mountains. People didn’t have to tune the car every time the season changed. When the Holley chest thumpers tried to call me out on this, I asked if it was TRUELY expected to have to fool with the carb tune, then why did every Q-Jet built after 1980ish have sealed tamper resistant idle mixture screws???

Carbs definitely have shortcomings. But people managed just fine for decades without EFI.

 

The facts are that carbs worked well for many years, but so did TV’s. Does anyone want to go back to your old tube tv with manual channel changing? Probably not.
Modern EFI can be very reliable if the install is done correctly, and good parts are used. Most aftermarket companies make good pieces(I’m not talking throttle body stuff), and most all the sensors are common mainstream GM parts that can be purchased virtually anywhere. I’ve done more than a few multiport systems that are still running today, with thousands and thousands of miles on them. They were good systems done right.
BUT, if you’re not a Motorhead, would you be diagnosing a problem on your new vehicle anymore than you would on your hot rod with an aftermarket system? Again, probably not.
The biggest issue I see is, some guys just shouldn’t be doing this, period. They just don’t have the skills needed. But the EFI companies are just trying sell systems, so they advertise accordingly, even though it opens up a giant can of worms.
And one other huge advantage a complete EFI system has over a conventional carb and Dist. is vastly better timing control. As I stated before, if you don’t employ this, then don’t waste your time.

 

I've installed 2 FiTech EFI units over the last 7 years or so. I've had a lot of success with both of them using the hand held units. The first install was on my '74 CJ with an AMC 360 that I take all over the country on 4x4 trips (read from 300 feet ASL to over 9,000). So the EFI was a pure blessing to me there. Arrive in the mountains, turn the key, and drive away. With that success, I installed one on my '67 Chevelle with a built 396. The Holley was running OK, as I made the jet adjustments and such with the dwell meter, etc. But it did seem a bit touchy with weather extremes and some altitude changes (albeit not as dramatic as the Jeep). So I went FiTech with that one as well. The system took a bit of learning with the manual trans (just like the Jeep). And I did have to look into all the handheld settings and make additional adjustments, but it runs like a top. For me, tech support was just fine in the beginning. eMails and call backs took only a day or two as I was a semi-early adopter. When they sold the company, support became a nightmare for a while. But it did get better. And ultimately they helped a lot with those settings to get my system really close, and the learning fine tuned it a bit from there. Got about 10% improved gas mileage on the Jeep and about a 5% improvement on the Chevy. My carb on the Cutlass is fine, and I have no plans to make changes there.

Just my experience.

 

If you want to keep it simple. Get a progression ignition HEI distributor and once you get your timing dialed. Then dial in your carb and your golden. You have the flexibility of the high tech timing control with the reliability a of carburetor. Don’t get hung up on which brand carb you use. Use the one that best suits your needs.

 

A few additional points;
timing control on the Progression is a step above a conventional Dist no doubt, but still not on par with an EFI system control. Most EFI systems have a larger grid and you can also tailor your timing vs, intake air and coolant temp, a distinct advantage.
But as I’ve said many times, TBI units are NOT more efficient than a carb. Case in point, I dyno’d the motorhome build (it’s on here) with the new Edelbrock VRS carb. It had a BSFC of .43 at peak. I switched to the Terminator TBI unit. It made a bit more power (870cfm Terminator vs 750cfm carb) but at that the expense of efficiency, BSFC went up to almost .55.
Bottom line is, pick your system carefully, use timing control, and don't expect huge gains anywhere, unless the old combo was just that far off.