Captjim,
I agree with you, each car is different and reacts different, how do I test to see if something is going to help someone else's car?
I was told specifically that MY car would "wake up" and i was leaving ".60 on the table" by running a mech fuel pump. In which I have yet to see it.

 

My point is if you are so demanding that I HAVE to test things your way, after all I have done, and paid for, if you want it done your way contribute also, I have no use for slicks, I'd be happy to send them back after you tell me how many passes I need to make to make you happy. And its still not valid for a street car.
Do you actually have any experience with mechanical fuel pumps hurting the performance of your 450 hp street car? Have you tested a mech pump vs elec on your 450 hp street car?

 

After reading the ENTIRE thread again, here are the black and white facts stated.
This thread is about a Robbmc fuel pump clearing an edelbrock head. We covered that. We offered alternate mech pumps that would clear with little modification.
There was a comment made about an elecric pump, and the comment was basically that the elec pump would provide MASSIVE gains for my engine and the thread starters engine.
These comments were made by a party who did switch to an electric pump.
The party that made the statements did not advise the thread viewers that he had throttle cable problems, nor did he advise that he was running an off the shelf common parts store fuel pump.
he replaced the pump and fixed his throttle cable by replacing it
he gained .60 in his 1/4 mile time.
he stated that his secondaries werent opening
he stated that he didnt know if his secondaries were opening or not
he stated that his secondaries were opening but lacked the last 1/16th
Its all in black and white.
I totally respect the party that advised of the gains
I decided to see for my self
I bought an elec pump,
I tried it,
I seen gains with an undersized carb
I changed to a properly sized carb
I seen no gains
I will still do dyno testing to provide on paper tests

Its all in black and white. I tried to do the right thing, to provide real results for a street car. Thats all I can do. The dyno results will be in in the next two weeks. Ive spent a lot of time and money to do this. When its done I will know forsure. If you want to argue that or not is your decision. But I have honestly and whole heartedly tired to do this to the best of my ability and resources.
Ive offered to take my street car to the drag strip, I've offered to ship the elec pump to a third party. What else can I do?

 

You could go to therapy for your obsessive behavior?

 

And you could for your changing of stories and claiming you didnt change stories. I said this umm no I didnt say that, and it be in black in white.

 

Yeah, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and I re-read the first page of the thread...what I see is that YOU said my secondaries weren't opening. I said I believe they weren't opening all the way, which I clarified by describing the extent to which they weren't opening...that being the last 1/16" of WOT.

You can talk about your street car all you want...mine is a street car as well. But unlike you, I take it to the track and test my modifications to see what kinds of gains I get. I don't race my buddy's pickup truck from 20-85 and pretend that it's a real test. I'll admit, I did that in high school...but now that I'm an adult I tend to put my faith in numbers, not my ***.

Get over it dude, we disagree...plain and simple. I've come to terms that there is someone in this world that I will never see eye to eye with, you should do the same

 

I agree, and you should come to terms that you shouldnt advise people they will see .60 gains in their street cars when you dont even know if it was a fuel pump or throttle cable.

 

Steve this is not directed towards you.People seem to be trolling. Man have you guys ever seen a dog chase it's tail. That's what this has become. Seriously is it that important that you try to prove your point to a bunch of people that really don't care about you. Man quit beating a dead horse. I thought some of my threads got out of hand but this is just beyond dumb. Let's just agree we all have diffrent thoughts and ways of doing things . For instance I saw a what I would call big gain from an x pipe I went from running 14.0 to 13.86 . Some disagree but I got the time slips. I swapped gears and that did nothing on the big end. Some disagree some say I'm wrong but that's what I saw based on what I ran. Also fwiw. Testing on the street based on numbers shown at the track is pointless. The truth is in the numbers.

 

"Get over it dude, we disagree...plain and simple. I've come to terms that there is someone in this world that I will never see eye to eye with, you should do the same"

Thats where we differ. I don't see this as a you vs me. I took your advice. I respect your opinion. I have said it over and over, it isnt personal. a profesional person will take another opinion into consideration, not go into name calling and act like a pissed off 6 year old. I have openly told you this is just a debate, I'd be the first to buy you a beer if I seen you in person. You continue to try to make it personal, it isnt, its a simple debate of will a elec pump help a street car. Have all your buddies, family etc jump in on your side, it desnt matter. I seem to be the only one doing any true testing whether you like the methods or not.

 

LMAO! Obsessing? Or is it trolling? Now I'm confused...I can't tell the difference, this is too fricking funny! Thanks for the laugh man! True testing, hahahaha! Very nice! Take care bro

 

Laughter is good for the soul, I'm glad to entertain someone. I hope the laughter can help you stay calm and stop being so personal about a fuel pump, its only a car part, relax, take a deep breath. Hopefully the upcoming dyno session will put an end to this. I might gain quite a bit on the dyno, I certainly hope I do. I;m open minded about it.

 

Once again, did you do the test on the same night under the same conditions? Probably not, as just with my intake comparison, it is not practical. For a test to really be conclusive, you need to make 2 runs, make the change, make 2 runs, then if possible switch back. Same driver, same day. Again, I know this is not really practical, but when you are talking about .14 gains, there are just too many variables, especially weather. If you have a bunch of runs, then switch and see the same .1x gains consistently, then I'm OK with saying "the X-pipe was worth .12 on my car". You can also record DAs and try to adjust.

My "home" track is BMP in Bradenton, FL, altitude 35 feet. One Jan they resurfaced the track just before a big national race. Cold front came through, 20+ NW winds (tail wind), no humidity, and a DA of -1800. Yes, -1800. 25 or so new records, almost all of them a result of the conditions.

 

Wow,take a breath.Can't we all just get along?lol Just one more reason I'm glad mine isn't pure .It's chebby powered,and I just bolted an aftermarket EFI on it with a returnless electric pump and had no problems with clearance!

 

Well said. I couldnt agree more. I think we are all here for the same reason.... working on Oldsmobiles, gathering information, knowledge, possibly make new friends. I personally will never let a car part get me to the point of calling people names, taking stabs at them etc. There are much more important things in life. Its really easy to be on a forum and talk down on people, say things you wouldnt say in person. The way you talk to and treat people in life or on the internet shows your mentality and character.
I have been around drag racing all my life, I know my methods are not perfect nor scientific but they do provide a realistic street result, as will the dyno in the near future.
For those of you that horse laugh at it or dispute it, well get off the gum flapping and do your own testing and provide results. So far I am the only one putting forth any money, time and effort to see if there are truly gains from switching from one to another. I am open minded and would love to see those .60 gains i was told I would see by changing, but so far it hasnt happened.

 

BY AH64PILOT
...what I see is that YOU said my secondaries weren't opening. I said I believe they weren't opening all the way, which I clarified by describing the extent to which they weren't opening...that being the last 1/16" of WOT."

You left out the post where you specifically stated ""The throttle cable breaking caused a stuck (high) idle condition that was misleading. While replacing it with the lokar cable I believe it wasn't opening all the way, but there's no way to really tell. I made a 12.7 pass before the suspected breakage and a 12.7 pass after the hung idle (suspected breakage) so who knows"

HAHAHAHAHAHA c'mon, man up and admit you had a cable issue, you don't know to this day how much the cable was restricting the secondaries. Its all in black and white, how would you possibly know months after the cable change that it was only a 16th when you didnt know when you made the change. I would think the RIGHT thing to do would be to admit that "yea I forgot about the cable issue, the fix might have played a major part of my .60 gain" rather than telling guys building 450 hp engines that they see massive gains if they swap to an elec pump.

And below is your EXACT quote, I dont see "believe" in the quote
"So we figured out why we had a hung idle at the racetrack, the cheapo Mr. Gasket throttle cable I had broke at the GM plastic clip right at the bracket. It made the cable kink and wasn't allowing the secondaries to open all the way"

keep on changing stories! and again you claim I have issues with my reading skills? Just another personal stab from you that was PROVEN wrong, its in black and white, your exact words. I know your intelligent, and skilled, but its time to admit you didnt give the best advice on this thread telling the thread starter and myself we would see huge gains with an elec pump.

 

Jim I ran with open headers the weekend before. Could not get better than a 14.0 after 5 runs weather was perfect cool spring night. The next weekend I went with the x pipe it was considerably hotter and muggy . I ran 3 runs all in the 13.8's. I might add the first reason i went was because i swapped from 3.42's to 3.73 gears . The first outing with the 3.42's was opening day at great lakes dragaway april 1st 2010 nice cool air car could not run faster than 14.0 . times with the 3.42 gear are as follows . 2.09 60 ft. 330 did not register , 9.043 8th mile w/ 78.98 mph, 11.761 1000 ft. and 14.061 1/4 mile at 98 mph. that was my fastes run that night. my next outing was with the 3.73 on june 4th 2010 my fastest run was 14.1 times are as follows 60 ft. was 2.042 , 330 was 5.852, 1/8 mile was 9.012 w/ 77.86 mph ,1000 ft was 11.768, 1/4 mile was 14.104 @ 96.63. My next outing was for the great lakes bop race june 13 th 2010 i had added the x pipe the day before . Times are as follows 60 ft. was 2.012 330 ft. was 5.734, 1/8 was 8.855 w/ 78.37 mph , 1000 ft was 11.581 , 1/4 was 13.86 @ 97.73 . the following august i went to byron dragway to make some runs after fixing my car after crashing it on my way home from the bop race. i added a fiberglass front end just the fenders and hood. weather was good about 80 degrees no humidity. My fastest pass that day was a 13.80 @ 97.98 mph 60ft. was 2.014 ,330 was 5.700 , 1/8 was 8.797 w/ 78.68 mph, 1000 was 11.508, A few weeks after that we went back out to byron for the bop race no changes this time out my best pass was a 13.71 . weather was much better in the 70's nice and cool . times are as follows 60 ft. 2.000 , 330 was 5.689, 1/8th was 8.760 w/ 79.78 mph , 1000 was 11.439, 1/4 was 13.712 @ 98.98 mph. driving techique helped alot on that run. I was playing with where to launch the car. It seems the car liked to be flat footed out of the hole w/ no preload . I just thought i would share the times driving techniwue can always gain some time but The x pipe got me into the 13's imo. The only time i ran a 13.99 w/ open headers was when i threw a belt during a burn out and the car overheated on the return road. i hit the track alot that year puting in about 50 runs . last year with my low 13. sec combo i put in about 45. I need to start doing the data log deal to keep track of things but im mainly a test n tuner i just like to beat on my stuff and try to make it faster little by little. I forgot to add all runs with the x pipe where made with mufflers. the best pass i ever made with mufflers and no h pipe or x pipe was 14.2 . running an open x pipe on my low 13 sec combo was worth an extra tenth never ran straight open headers on it . i got all the times for that too but i already took up alot of space.

 

This has gotten ridiculous.