shamusj

bought this gem last month-was sitting outside semi covered since '84.
Someone pulled the radiator and top plate off in '83...I'm trying to figure out what they were after (blown motor, timing chain, etc).
Opened up the front cover last night and was impressed with how clean the inside was...was expecting gunk fest yet very very clean (I'm guessing it was rebuilt?).
under side of valve covers have a light grey coating....guessing it's bearing material? Does this look like a bearing failure or normal?
Regarding timing chain gears- lots of cracking...would this kill the motor...make it run really bad?
The timing gears look ancient yet the motor looks too clean...not sure how to read it.
Motor is numbers match...same with tranny
I'll grow some ***** later this year and tear the motor out and dig deep. If needed I have a '67 400 E motor ready to drop in if things are too ugly.
Anyone know of a good transmission place within an hour of san jose, ca? Probably best to get it gone through after all these years.
Last but not least- some bozo clipped the alternator plug...anyone know if i can buy just this line set or do I need to do the whole under hood harness?
The more I dig into this thing ...it's a very clean NO bondo car. one rust floor section (driver floor), 1/4 trunk surface. No body rust except tiny front fender patches.
Really appreciate any thoughts or advice on the motor

oldcutlass

It definitely needs a timing set. I don't know about the gray, was there oil in the engine and a oil filter? You can drain it and cut open the old filter for some history. The trans may or may not be good, a simple fluid and filter change might be all that is needed there.

You might just give it a quick start and see what it does.

joe_padavano

I'm guessing that the grey color is simply condensation from the air getting into the oil. This is one of the big problems with letting an engine sit. When you run it regularly this moisture is boiled off as the oil gets hot.

halfmoontrail

I'd change the timing gears, as you lose the plastic gear coating the chain can slip. After that, I'd button it up and work on trying to start it. It actually appears to be fairly low miles on the original engine, without being molested. I'm guessing this because it's so clean and because of the fiber/plastic timing gear set.

My bet is she'll run, once you get some fire and fuel to her.

Steve

droldsmorland

As mentioned cut open the filter and look for metal and replace that timing set while you're staring at it. If you find lots of metal time to yank it and have a look at the crank.
That engine looks clean.
I too recently found a virgin F block out of a 69, 88 with 60K that sat from 1983 till now with a similar looking gray film. Internals looked great. So your probably ok if the oil filter checks out ok.
There was a really good trans shop in Roseville. Ill IM you a contact who lives in that area. He's an OCA member. He should be able to direct you to it if it still exists?

Octania

Looks great, for the most part.

Don't do more than you need to... but you DO need to swap out that timing set. With that done, it'll probably be fine. Unless it has the spun bearing or whatnot, which you will know right away.

tru-blue 442

Forget the 400 G block.
Drop in the 400 E block.
Hold onto the G for the #'s.
The E block is a MUCH better engine.
Just my .02 Good luck with whatever
you decide to do.

rpclearwater

When I was 16 my oil pump screen was clogged with all of the timing chain plastic coating pieces and I spun my first bearing.

rpclearwater

Also some of that grey could be lead if its never been rebuilt? With that timing chain it might never have been? I dont know that they even still make them with the plastic gear? That was for noise they say?

Rickman48

Here comes a MAW - replace the water pump while it's off!
Cheap insurance!

MDchanic

Standard S-84:



And, though nobody has explicitly said it yet, that timing set is original, not a replacement, so that engine is clean just because it's clean.

Looks like a runner to me, unless it's got a holed piston or a bent rod.

- Eric

Sugar Bear

Looks like a nice motor. Can you see if the head gaskets are steel shim by looking at the edges? If they are it has probably never been apart. The cam gear also looks original.

In addition to the previous posters advice of changing the timing set and cleaning out the oil pan, consider changing the valve seals before reinstalling the oil pan, using compressed air without pulling the heads. When changing the seals either replace the valve springs or measure their height because when the engine sat for a very long time one or more of the springs were compressed for a much longer period than intended. This can weaken the springs. Another reason not to let an engine set if it can be prevented.

oldcutlass

I would just do what's necessary to get the engine to start and see what it sounds like and if it smokes. Then go from there.

droldsmorland

I agree with the oil pan inspection. Always good to insure the pick-up screen is clear of debris. I would also suggest after adding fresh oil that you prime the engine by driving the oil pump through the distributor hole with a drill. Use an extension but tape the socket to it so you don’t lose it. Hand rotate the engine several times as you are priming. Watch for oil to come out of the valve train then continue for a while after that. This will insure its primed well. Hook up an oil psi gauge before you fire it up. You should see some pressure on this gauge while priming depending how fast the drills spinning. You need a drill with some grunt. With the gauge you should see oil pressure immediately upon cranking and start up. Id pull the coil wire and let the starter rotate the engine for 20-30 sec. prior to fire. Run this new oil for a short period of time then change it. I like to add a can of ProLong to regular dino juice.

442rocketdave

I would also pull the plugs and put 2 squirts of marvel mystery oil in the cylinders and turn it over by hand just enough to loosen the rings up and not too much MMO, then check the plugs gap them and put them in, then do the procedure droldsmorland stated and then fire it UP! The MMO helps loosen any rings that may be frozen up it may smoke a little but it will clear up and if it doesnt well then time to take it all apart.

shamusj

a sincere thanks for all the input- definitely opened up a few ideas I hadn't considered.
I am nervous about this motor mostly because someone removed the radiator, top plate and pulleys a long time ago- they were getting ready to fix something in the motor...I suspect big and ugly.
I'll drain oil and cut open the filter and report back with pics.
For simplicity sake I'll probably drop the e code motor in (known entity and time is short). Keep the original motor on the side lines for #'s sake.

Off topic- looking for someone near san jose, ca that can handle replacing front left floor pan section and two small front fender lower patches. I need them formed and welded in...I can take it from there. They could work in my big garage or I may be able to deliver car for a day or two.

Thanks again

droldsmorland

Good catch Dave forgot to lube the slugs & jugs

shamusj

I dug out my old filter cutter and made an easy job of cutting the filter open....forgot about the load of oil locked in behind the filter. Add 20 minutes of clean up and here we are.
I didn't see any solid metal chunks or pieces when oil drained out of pan....looks like metallic sparkle in the bottom of drain pan.
No chunks on the surface of the filter or at bottom of filter.....
Do I need to cut the paper filter open and look or should most of the possible bearing chunks be stuck to outside?
Unless I'm missing something I don't see any evidence of a major blow out.
By the way...how do I tell if head gaskets are original....I can't really see the gasket at all just head and block

Thanks again for any and all help/observations

MDchanic

That filter looks fine. Since the oil passes through the filter paper from the outside toward the inside, there should be nothing on the inside surface.

Head gaskets can be tough - they are 0.016" stel shims, but that is very similar to the middle layer of the standard FelPro gasket, when viewed from the side through grease.

The way to tell is to take off the intake manifold, as you can see a bit of the original gaskets sticking out near the corners in the valley, and the FelPro types have an extra tab or two just sticking out into the valley, in the middle of the heads, that you can see and feel.

My personal opinion, though, is that if they left that original timing gear, it is highly unlikely that they pulled a head.

- Eric

- Eric

shamusj

Bad news....I figured out whey somebody removed the radiator, top plate and engine pulleys back in 1984......removed spark plugs and found this bad boy in front drivers side....cylinder was full of water and looking rather ugly.

Any thoughts on whether an engine can survive sitting with water in the cylinder for 30+ years....at minimum it's a bore...is a resleeve an option?

I pumped water out (piston was almost at top) and filled with WD40 to stop any more damage. Anyone have better ideas?

I'm going to assemble my 400 E code engine this week (all machine work done) just needs to be put together. Looks like this will be the engine to use....I can dive into the numbers match motor when kids are older and I have more time.

Due to the fact that the engine crapped out (thats what killed the car)...I"m guessing the transmission is ok....since everything is coming out it might be best to have it gone through?

Anyways- thanks for all the great advice...this motor will get yanked and put on ice for a long time.

MDchanic

At this point, it looks like the heads have to come off - no sense trying to guess how much damage there could have been, you've got to look.

At least you've got another one.

- Eric

oldcutlass

That's too bad.