442craig

Hi Guys,

So after I had the engine out for the second time (after it was rebuilt) it developed a coolant leak. Seems to be coming from the timing cover. Do I have to pull everything apart to replace the cover gasket? The book says to pull the oil pan, its that necessary? Seems like a PIA! Is it just the pump leaking? What is the minimal I need to do to fix it?

Here is a Gopro video of the problem! (man I love Gopro!)

Craig

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Mcd...ature=youtu.be

Stevec

Craig,that's a big leak! Ide start with checking all the front cover and water pump bolts.
Check to see if your water pump is bad,grab the fan and see if it has play in it.

The pan has to at least get dropped a bit in the front to get the front cover off. It's kind of a pain and its a 4-5 hour job or more but if you take your time it's not that bad.

oldcutlass

I agree, that is a fairly good leak. Steve is giving you very good advice.

hilbily

WOW! Don't have a clue about your leak but that is a cool video. Good luck.

442craig

Thanks guys!

I guess It will be my weekend project!

Oldsmaniac

I am guess ing it is coming from the side of the water pump as it gets worse with rpm. The timing cover seals mostly the crankcase with just the 2 water ports near the top. Good advice above. Try and pinpoint before you go too far cause you may not have to.

MDchanic

+1.

The timing cover covers an oil area, not a water area.
There are two places where the water from the water pump passes through holes in the timing cover, but that's all. If you have a leak between the timing cover and the block at either of these points, there is a very strong chance that you will have coolant in your oil as well, so be sure to check that.

I'd pull the water pump and have a good look at those sealing surfaces - they're probably the culprit.

- Eric

Octania

pinpoint the source first

might be just the water pump or its mounting - or the intake to heads

billmerbach

Check to make sure you also put the right gasket on your pump dummy me put the wrong one on when I put my engine in and I thought I messed up bad

MDchanic

True. Of the three (if I recall) in the usual kit, only one will fit, but one other will really look like it fits.

- Eric

442craig

When the engine was first installed this wasn't a problem. I had to pull it to adjust the rod bolts. When it was put back in this is what happened. I didn't do the work so I'm trying to figure what was disturbed. I believe all he did was pull the oil pan. I don't think the water pump was removed.

I was thinking I would try to reseal the pump first.

Craig

Eddie Hansen

Craig jeez man whatch u doin on the left cost?? Always gotra be breakin sh% t lol

Seriously man that is a leak and a half and a very cool vid I think you may be right I too would try to reseal the water pump he might have shifted that timing plate cover? Although I would think unlikely it really looks like it might be coming from the right side where the pump would push the water into the block, I would also change the oil as was said.... good luck and keep us posted

joe_padavano

First, with the fan blowing coolant around, there's no way to tell where the leak is. Second, the most likely source is the water pump seal. Start by trying to wiggle the water pump shaft up and down. If there's any movement at all, the bearings are shot, which causes the seal to get chewed up pretty quickly. I've never seen a leak from the front cover passageways. Check the easy (and most likely) things first.

Ozzie

As has been said, first do your best to identify exactly what is leaking. This will be an aid to making the repair. Small inspection lamps, mirrors, and an inspection camera will help. Then go after it. Best wishes!

442craig

Thanks guys,

I think I will start with the pump! I think it is the culprit!

Craig

droldsmorland

Craig,
Rent or borrow a coolant system pressure checker before unbolting anything. You could save your self from hair loss and head aches knowing exactly where the leak is without having to run it. Sometimes the seals can go in the pump without excessive shaft play. Hopefully your wrench who pulled the motor didn't chain up to the pump...Not LOL. Nothing in the oil right? G.L. let us know what you found....BTW nice leak, all over the nicely restored engine.

442craig

Too late on the hair loss!
The "wrench" is me (bolting it to the pump is a problem?)

I haven't seen any coolant in the oil.

I have been cleaning it every time I run the engine!

Well after I fix this I have a mysterious oil leak coming from the back but that is another OPRAH! Stay tuned!

Craig

442craig

Eddie,

Thought I'd make it rain here on the left coast! Mission accomplished!

Nothing is ever easy!

Eddie Hansen

wish you luck my friend, pressure tester was a great bit of advice...

ya know if you had a 69 model year this crap wouldn't happen...

Fun71

"Adjust the rod bolts"? What does that mean?

m371961

Never heard of adjusting rod bolts. Either the OP got it wrong or someone is full of it.
X3 on the pressure test, or get it hot, shut it off, clean it and look carefully while it is hot and has pressure. Like Joe said, with the fan running that video shows nothing that actually tells where the leak is.

442craig

Rod bolts is a long story. See my Major projects thread! in a nut shell the builder used ARP rod bolts and when the engine heated up they would hit thus "adjust the rod bolts"

Stay tuned!

Craig

442craig

So over the holiday I pulled the water pump and resealed it with a new gasket and permatex. Same result, it is leaking from the bottom driver side of the pump. I noticed the timing cover had some pitting. I am wondering if this is the cause. I hope not, I really don't want to pull everything to get it off. If I do, is there a replacement timing cover for the 68 400?

Any other thoughts?

Craig

Ozzie

Again, first identify exactly where the leak is. The pressure tester is a good suggestion. This will allow you to get close to it with other diagnostic tools. If it is at a gasket surface, put a straight edge on both surfaces which are adjacent to the gasket at the leak. Check with a feeler gauge. Any irregularities would be a problem. Pitting can be aggravated by acidic coolants. Permatex will probably not be sufficient to seal surfaces under pressure with irregularities.

Eddie Hansen

Craig if you do end up needibg a cover, I believe they are all the same except for the 394 and the diesel, yes pace performance sells original style, mondello sells a 2 piece version I am sure others do as well , I agree to find exactly where the leak is

Sorry you got troubles ,

classicmuscle442

Disconnect fan belt so you can see where its coming from, great video, never seen a water pump shaft seal leak that much, hopefully just one of the two water pump seals.

442craig

Thanks guys

Back to the drawing board!

Excuse my ignorance. How will a pressure tester pinpoint the area? I've never used one. I think if I put the go pro back on I can locate it. I didn't realize there was more than one gasket in the kit. Is there a significant difference in them?

Is there a gasket behind the timing cover for the inlet and outlet? Could that be leaking? I would think that if it was I'd have coolant in the oil. The oil looks clean.

Thanks,

Craig

Ozzie

The advantage of using the pressure tester is that it will pressurize the cooling system without having to run the engine. You can then remove the drive belts and use the Go Pro, an inspection camera, mirrors, lights, etc., without damaging your body when everything is in motion. The pressure will encourage the coolant to leak more; hence, make the leak easier to find. It doesn't really matter what procedure you use, as long as you are able to establish exactly where the leak is.
Consider it "great" that there is no coolant in the oil.

Backstrom

A cheap trick; If you don't have access to a pressure tester you can easily make one on your own, just buy a bicycle tube, cut it in half and connect it to the heater outlets on the water pump and in the rear of the intake. Done that a couple of times, and it works well on radiators and heater cores too.

MDchanic

Nice idea. Could help a lot of people.

- Eric

joe_padavano

The front covers are the same on all 1964-1990 Olds V8s. I believe you can still get new covers for the 307, which are the same. I've also had success in using a body grinder to smooth off the pits on the front cover before reinstalling the water pump. Be sure you haven't stripped the 1/4" self-tapping screws, which will lead to a leak. Also be sure the water pump gasket surface is flat.

If you do change the cover, you MIGHTASWELL do the timing chain at the same time...

442craig

Well, pulled the pump off again and looked at the timing cover. It is pitted pretty bad, especially in the area where it is leaking. I am going to change the cover.

Dumb question #1 How do I get the bolt off the crank/balancer without the engine turning?

Dumb question #2 I can't remember if the timing chain housing is dry or has oil in it (will I make a mess when I open it?)

And… I can't find anyone who carries a new cover. Seems to me this would be a popular repro, especially if it covers all engines from 64 - 90 (Thanks Joe!) Why isn't it made? Does anyone have a suggestion where to find one? I checked at Pace (Ed) and they don't have them. My engine builder is friends with Bernard Mondello, thought I'd call him if all else fails!

Thanks everyone and sorry for the rookie questions. Sometimes it's better to swallow your pride and ask questions!

Craig

steverw

OPGI, Supercars Unlimited, The Parts Place, all these should have them. You might even check Rockauto, if they have it it would probably be cheaper than the others. I have thought the best thing would be make one from stainless steel, but that would take more effort.
Steve

442craig

Thanks Steve, tried Rock auto and OPGI, nothing. I'll check the others. Thanks!

MDchanic

Best way to get the balancer bolt off is with an air wrench.

If there's no room, you can jam a breaker bar with a pipe on the end of it against the ground on the driver's side and tap the starter once or twice.

You can also jam the flex plate teeth with a crowbar or a specially made engine locking tool.

There should be no residual oil in the timing case, but everything in there will be oily.

- Eric

joe_padavano

Original GM front covers are still available. Google part number 22525282 and you'll find many at prices from $40 and up. Can't see paying $90 from an Olds specialty house when you can get a real GM part for half that much.

The problem with using an impact wrench to get the balancer bolt off is that you still need to hold the engine to torque it when installing it. Decades ago I built a tool that is basically an old crank pulley with a handle welded to it. Remove the original pulley, bolt the tool to the balancer, and torque away.

442craig

Hi Joe,

I found a thread you commented on a few years ago with the same advise. I don't have an impact wrench. I thought of getting a piece of bar steel and drilling two holes that fit the balancer and holding it against the frame. Do you think I could use a breaker bar to get the nut loose with out damaging the bearing surfaces? Thanks for the info, I will google to part number.

Craig

joe_padavano

I had to put a two foot piece of pipe over the handle of my breaker bar.

442craig

Yeah, I figured the same. I'll give it a try.

I found the cover locally for $43!
Thanks for your advise!

Craig

Octania

here you go, google search
$42 on up.

Evidently if it is the CHEVY version of the Olds V8 part, it's worth more, priced at $49

http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Perf...25282/10002/-1

"Chevrolet Performance#809-22525282
OLDS TIMING COVER"

good grief, with the gratuitous Chevy references.