At what power level do you start to eat parts and money?
What is the max hp/tq before you have to spend the big $$$$$$ ?
smart build max value per dollar?
This is the build below
stock caps with studs
eagle rods
NC crank
light pistons and pins 10 to 1 to 10.5
out of the box ebock heads
hyd flat tapet cam
roller rockers
How far can this type of build be pushed before you start eating money?

8.5 diff with axels,cover,and ford ends.
2004r with billet hard parts.

Does my question make sence?

 

500-550 HP is no problem, unless you use nitrous.

 

10 to 1 and stock E-brocks should limit you to around 425-450 HP. With good clearances, machine work, and assembly procedures you should be fine. You should not need to spin it to 6 grand, 5500-5800 max.

 

I shift my 455 at 5200, runs mid to high 11s easily, dips into the low 11s (high10s in good air) on the bottle and has been together for 8 years now. Done Power Tour this past year, I'm replacing valve springs and fixing a rear main leak over the winter. I'm really thinking about trying Drag Week,I recall the fastest Olds ran 13.8s this past year. I'm bored with Power Tour. I really wish they would pick a route out of the Midwest!

 

I made 500/550 with 10.6:1 and out of the box Edelbrocks...if you pick your parts right you should have no problem breaking the 1 hp per cube barrier and keeping fairly good manners. Add some straps to your mains for added strength and have a good balance done and it'll last a long time.

The cam I mentioned in another post is rough but I love it! It definitely won't be a sleeper though lol!

 

8 years on a big block with nos and tour miles,runs high 11's on the engine and dips into the 10's with nos. That is a build goal and results I would be very happy with! Well Done!

 

500/550 nice numbers what are you running for fuel with 10.6 to 1?
I was going for the sleeper look. There is nothing like the sound of a large cam and open headers of a olds engine.The Olds engine just hits harder at least to my ear.I was thinking about starting with a smaller cam and swaping to a larger one later if I was not happy with its performance.

 

I was going with the sleeper look as well but then an OAI hood and this engine just ruin it for me lol! With 10.6:1 I ran 93...the aluminum heads afford a little higher compression without detonation issues. I changed the head gaskets and am around 10.75 - 10.8 now so I run a 10% mix of C-12 (108 leaded) in it just to be safe. I probably don't have to but it doesn't hurt and makes me feel better. Plus it smells awesome burning racing fuel Even the small percentage mix makes it smell like a race car

 

As I mentioned in your other thread, nitrous is the best bang-for-the-buck. What else can you do to knock a second and a half off for $500? IMO, 455s are a bit trickier to spray, but as Matt posted it certainly can be done. The thing guys underestimate is the ridiculous low end torque that results. That means less gear and lower shifting RPMs.

 

I'm spraying 175, I have a MSD spark retard box that automatically pulls timing out when the nitrous comes on. I have a Holley blue pump that supplies the fuel for the nitrous, all protected by a low fuel pressure cutoff switch. I'm running the hairiest cam in the Lunati Voodoo line with stock Edelbrock heads. I'm pretty happy with the combination, I keep teasing the wife that maybe I should start building a spare engine, as long as I have a spare maybe Ill never need it! If I sell it or put it in a different car, then something will happen to the engine in the car now!

 

Me and ah64pilot are running similar engines.
Irebuilt my 455 in 2005 and just refreshed it last winter with new rod bearings and piston rings. Mains looked like new.
N crank, reconditioned rods, heavy speed-pros, hyd flat tappet cam, e-brocks, torker, holley, 32-3599 stall, 3.42 gears, drag radials.
Best time is 11.52 @116 with a best of 1.55 sixty.
Changeing a few key parts this winter and adding an 8 point rollbar.
I plan on racing in NMCAs nostalgia muscle car class at two events this year. I'm focusing on chassis and car weight.

I have plans for stepping up the motor but in all likelyhood I wont need to for probably 4-6 years. Good machine work and balancing go along way.

 

I am also running a similar setup to ah64pilot and jims2000t, my 69 is .060 over with 10.5 to 1 trw, plasma moly rings, 04B edel manifold, c heads competition ported out, rr HS, Lunati 565 lift cam 256 duration at .050, It ran 11.67 at 122 and now I have started a new rebuild, the machine shop is almost done and its looking good. I hope I can get the car in the low 11s, This motor held up for several years and the time before that it ran 12.10 and I had that motor 10 years of racing and driving. They hold up good if you have the machine work and dont over rev them.

 

I got to the mid 12's when parts went south.......Not motor parts......

Posi's,gears,Trannys,axles etc..........Motor lasted 8 years 5 playing with NOS..........
She still runs just no oil pressure........

 

I'll second that notion...I *think* my auburn posi is giving out behind my engine...gonna put in a detroit locker as soon as I get my next gun purchase out of the way, silly congressmen.

 

BigJerr is right on that one, drive shafts, ujoints, gears, transmissions gears. The motor's held up fine just the drive line suffers. Until you get it bullet proofed.

 

Just remember when dealing with high performance
"It's not if it's gonna break......but when it's gonna"

 

I like this quote!

 

I think if you don't have a "Wall of Shame" displaying broken parts in your garage your not trying hard enough. Maybe that would be a good thread topic?

 

That is a lot of MPH for an 11.67, what are your 60' times? I have been 11.60 @ 116MPH with a 1.60 60' which is more typical.

 

This is very true, they start to cost money in the very beginning, and eat parts from there on.

 

The faster you are and the more runs you do = $$$$$$$$
Fast cars are a lot of hard work and money but are very cool.
I'm looking for the clif were et starts to = $$$$$$$$$$
From what I have read it looks to be low 11's or high 10's

 

I feel like it was easy going from mid 12s to high 11s but now to go from mid 11s to low 11s or high 10s is going to be tough.

Spray or a new engine combo.
I like running on motor alone and its probably years off from being able to build a new bullet.

I'm just trying to science out the ENTIRE car this winter. Mainly with weight and suspension to hopefully get me to low 11s.

 

Chadman my car is light and it pulls hard on the top end, the 60 ft times were slow 1.80s, when I ran the 12.10 I was hitting 110 to 112, the car has always been fast on the top end with high mph. When it was bone stock I ran 13.47 at 105mph!

 

So what is your car and what does it weigh?

 

Prior to building the 524 cid stroker I ran a 0.040" over 455 in my 1972 442 race car. 1968 455 block with N crank, C heads, a Torker, 850 AED carb, JM 4-5 camshaft. HS roller rockers, TRW pistons on factory rods with ARP fasteners. Compression is 10.2:1. It ran a best of 11.69 @ 114.85 mph @ 3500 ft corrected elevation weighing 3550 lbs with driver. A few days after that run the car was chassis dyno'd & showed 397 hp & 427 TQ to the rear wheels. Had I messed with timing & jetting on the dyno I bet we could have found another 10-15 hp & TQ.

This was a fairly inexpensive & durable build & one that anyone could duplicate. The engine is entirely freindly & ran just fine on 94 Octane & 35 degrees of timing.

That engine had 450 runs on it & few thousand street miles. Since replacing it with the 524 it has been freshened & will go into one of my other cars when I get around to it. It only needed bearings & I chose to swap cams to something with more vacuum. It will push another car into the high 11s with ease. WIth a T400 & 2800 stall converter with a 3.42 rear gears it is tough to beat a mild 455 for seat of the pants fun.

 

My car is a 69 w30 and it weighs 3100 lbs without my fat butt in it. It was featured in 1993 in Muscle car review magazine. I have owned it for 30 years, I am currently rebuilding the motor and the car, I will have pics from the machine shop in a day or so, I will post a thread on the car.

 

Are you running the 400G block? 69 442 W30 is Oldsmobile at its best, I had 6 69's in the past,I think it had the best body lines and interior styling.

 

I have run both the 400G block which I just had bored to .030 over and I have a 455 that runs in the high 11s, the 400 runs in the mid to low 12s. I have run different setups for both and the 400 as you know has it shortfalls but it runs good. The 455 is bored .060 and its a 68 block F1 I have had it for 30 years and between the two motors put alot of races on them. I think this is the last go around for the rods on the 455. I will put eagle rods in next time and the new pro comp heads.

 

I think the 400G block gets a bad rap,I felt the 400 spun up quicker than my 455 did. It was so easy to over rev and blast past the red line that it spun rod bearings X3.Yes the 455 makes more hp/tq but it also has 55 more cubes.About five years ago there was a 69 W30 stick with papers for sale, I kick myself for not buying it.The 69 W 30 was bought from a famous Olds Dealer and the owner had a 69 olds web site.Who ever bought the car got a killer deal all original car that sold for a very fair price.

Do you have any pics of your car?

 

Bernard I finally posted some pics on the albums I do not know how to make a thread yet? I have more pics and would like to do them in order, I dont have the pics on there from the 400 but will upload them in a few minutes. And some pics of my poor old car!

 

Thanks

 

I don't like the "N" word [nitrous], lol. I don't do drugs, and neither does my car There are too many pictures on other forums with #4 main saddle broken out from the vertical torque curve using nitrous. There are enough NHRA stockers, 400 and 455, running 10s with unported iron heads, flat iron intakes to convince me that attention to detail, etc. will get the performance without drugs.

 

Rund, I respect you opinion and enjoy reading your posts but I REALLY get irritated when guys use SS as comparisons to what a guy can reasonable except. Those racers push the envelope to extremes. Less that 1% of the guys on this forum (myself included) have the knowledge or experience to do that. Used properly, nitrous is the best power/buck and it does not affect daily driving. It does chemically what big cams, carbs, etc do mechanically; get more air and fuel into the chamber.

Also, just to be clear, I suggested the 350/N2O route, not a 455

 

I agree that NHRA Super Stock is pretty extreme, but I mentioned Stock. Other than wild camshaft ramps, the cars do resemble what we can do, or often do. Since we are not restricted to stock lift, we can use cams with more lift and smoother ramps. For me, racing is a learning experience. I want to know more about Olds engines and how to make an Olds run well. For me it is not always about the most power per $, but my budget is small so I just learn where I can, and continue running a car that looks a lot like 1966 with all-iron engine, no power adders. The advantage for me is I am still 17 when in the car, or maybe 23 when I bought my first 66 W30, lol.

 

I'm very impressed with what the Super Stock guys do, its a example of what these engines are capable of. At the same time, most people don't have the money, patience or resources those guys do. I have heard of people going thru hundreds of OEM rocker arms to find the ones that have the highest rocker ratio, or countless connecting rods to find the lightest or longest ones. Its hard enough to do with aftermarket parts.