455 value
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,151
From: Raleigh, NC
455 value
Got a chance to pick this up for my 72. What's it worth in this condition?
68 W 34 it has the C Heads # 394 548 and block casting 396021 F and is the Red Painted Block! it is a high comp.10.1 a(Freeway Cruiser ! With towing package!) Org. 2 bbl intake and has the( Forged Crank!) The Block Casting #s in the bell housing are 68 F 4 = cast in 1968 and F 4 = Strong metal content High nickel and Tin compared to later F 1 blocks, the dist. #s 1111936 A =Jan, J=10 9= 1969 W 34. it has been put up and stored for years and is stuck from sitting
68 W 34 it has the C Heads # 394 548 and block casting 396021 F and is the Red Painted Block! it is a high comp.10.1 a(Freeway Cruiser ! With towing package!) Org. 2 bbl intake and has the( Forged Crank!) The Block Casting #s in the bell housing are 68 F 4 = cast in 1968 and F 4 = Strong metal content High nickel and Tin compared to later F 1 blocks, the dist. #s 1111936 A =Jan, J=10 9= 1969 W 34. it has been put up and stored for years and is stuck from sitting
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
"68 W 34 it has the C Heads # 394 548 and block casting 396021 F and is the Red Painted Block! it is a high comp.10.1 a(Freeway Cruiser ! With towing package!) Org. 2 bbl intake and has the( Forged Crank!) The Block Casting #s in the bell housing are 68 F 4 = cast in 1968 and F 4 = Strong metal content High nickel and Tin compared to later F 1 blocks, the dist. #s 1111936 A =Jan, J=10 9= 1969 W 34. it has been put up and stored for years and is stuck from sitting "
There is a lot of confusion in that paragraph.
A good 455 is probably worth oh $1000 with BV C heads. How do we know it's good? Sellers have been known to err on the side of "it's good" if they don't know.
"stored for years and is stuck from sitting"
Wah-waaaaah. Sorry, Charlie.... absolutely requires dismantling to assess and/or fix so might as well do that now and see what it really is.
W34 is the Toronado engine, it would not be a 2-bbl. Typo?
All 455's are 396021 F and the red paint is not all that special.
Forged crank is probably a bonus- is that KNOWN as in I saw the J notch, or a rumor because "all the 68 Toro motors had that". Ditto BV C heads... known as in measured, or assumed?
Block rear face "68" BY NO MEANS indicates cast in 1968. Many years later they had the same embossment. The F4 = better material is also unfounded rumor, and almost certainly bullsnort. If the seller is willing to assert that as true, what else are they fudging on? Valve size, origin of engine, forged crank?
Ck the VIN stamp, it will tell if '68 or not and if Toro or not.
Dist'r 1111936 gets interesting:
"1969 Oldsmobile Toronado w/400HP 455; >>1968 F-85 HURST w/AC<<; 1968 Toronado w/o UHV [transistor ignition]"
"A =Jan, J=10, 9= 1969 W 34"....
Not quite the way that works.
AJ9 is not a factory stamp. It would be more like 9A10 for 1969, January, the 10th
While the # indicates use on '69 400 HP Toro, it ALSO indicates other applications. Oh, in this case, 8A10, because a 1968 engine would not have parts made in January 1969.
Ck see if the carb [if a FOUR-bbl] is '8252 Toronado, or '8255 ridicu-rare. Or '8253 even rarer.
I would not pay for bonuses like a forged crank and big valve heads unless they are PROVEN... at the very least a Toronado 500,000+ VIN. Even that does not prove a forged crank.
There is a lot of confusion in that paragraph.
A good 455 is probably worth oh $1000 with BV C heads. How do we know it's good? Sellers have been known to err on the side of "it's good" if they don't know.
"stored for years and is stuck from sitting"
Wah-waaaaah. Sorry, Charlie.... absolutely requires dismantling to assess and/or fix so might as well do that now and see what it really is.
W34 is the Toronado engine, it would not be a 2-bbl. Typo?
All 455's are 396021 F and the red paint is not all that special.
Forged crank is probably a bonus- is that KNOWN as in I saw the J notch, or a rumor because "all the 68 Toro motors had that". Ditto BV C heads... known as in measured, or assumed?
Block rear face "68" BY NO MEANS indicates cast in 1968. Many years later they had the same embossment. The F4 = better material is also unfounded rumor, and almost certainly bullsnort. If the seller is willing to assert that as true, what else are they fudging on? Valve size, origin of engine, forged crank?
Ck the VIN stamp, it will tell if '68 or not and if Toro or not.
Dist'r 1111936 gets interesting:
"1969 Oldsmobile Toronado w/400HP 455; >>1968 F-85 HURST w/AC<<; 1968 Toronado w/o UHV [transistor ignition]"
"A =Jan, J=10, 9= 1969 W 34"....
Not quite the way that works.
AJ9 is not a factory stamp. It would be more like 9A10 for 1969, January, the 10th
While the # indicates use on '69 400 HP Toro, it ALSO indicates other applications. Oh, in this case, 8A10, because a 1968 engine would not have parts made in January 1969.
Ck see if the carb [if a FOUR-bbl] is '8252 Toronado, or '8255 ridicu-rare. Or '8253 even rarer.
I would not pay for bonuses like a forged crank and big valve heads unless they are PROVEN... at the very least a Toronado 500,000+ VIN. Even that does not prove a forged crank.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,151
From: Raleigh, NC
Great information. Really appreciate it. Seller said he was considering parting it and could get $300 for just the crank?! I'm not real knowledgeable on motors and looking for something I can learn from but that would mean spending $$$ and don't want to waste it on junk. Nice guy but also claims to have a Fremont built 1970 442 that came factory with a 350 in it 
so I wonder!
so I wonder!
Old(s) Fart
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,768
From: Northern VA
Chris has only scratched the surface on the BS in that ad. First, every single 1968-69 455 installed in a RWD Oldsmobile was painted red. All Toronado motors of that vintage were pale blue. W-34 is a Toro-only engine, thus it would be painted the pale blue. A red 455 cannot be a W-34.
Second, as Chris points out, all Toro 455s were 4bbl. The only 2bbl 455s offered were in the Delta 88 (thus the red paint). The base engine was the L30 310 HP 2bbl motor with 9.00:1 compression. The optional L66 320 HP 2bbl motor had 10.25:1 compression. The only way to tell is to take the heads off and look at the pistons. Yes, it is possible that the intake was swapped during the gas crunches of the mid-1970s, as this was not uncommon, but the seller swears it's an original intake.
Third, while the whole "F-number relates to nickel content" thing is a myth, in every previous retelling of the myth the lower number was higher nickel content. This is the first time someone has suggested that an F4 is better than an F1. At least get your myth straight.
Fourth, it's an all original 1968 motor with a 1969 distributor?!
Finally, THE MOTOR IS STUCK!!!
Look, the needle on the BS meter is now broken from being pegged so hard. This is at best a core worth $150. Certainly any 1968-69 455 is a good starting point for a build, but expect to put $5000 into this motor, minimum.
Second, as Chris points out, all Toro 455s were 4bbl. The only 2bbl 455s offered were in the Delta 88 (thus the red paint). The base engine was the L30 310 HP 2bbl motor with 9.00:1 compression. The optional L66 320 HP 2bbl motor had 10.25:1 compression. The only way to tell is to take the heads off and look at the pistons. Yes, it is possible that the intake was swapped during the gas crunches of the mid-1970s, as this was not uncommon, but the seller swears it's an original intake.
Third, while the whole "F-number relates to nickel content" thing is a myth, in every previous retelling of the myth the lower number was higher nickel content. This is the first time someone has suggested that an F4 is better than an F1. At least get your myth straight.
Fourth, it's an all original 1968 motor with a 1969 distributor?!
Finally, THE MOTOR IS STUCK!!!
Look, the needle on the BS meter is now broken from being pegged so hard. This is at best a core worth $150. Certainly any 1968-69 455 is a good starting point for a build, but expect to put $5000 into this motor, minimum.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
Good call Joe P.
I just had a thought....
I have seen forged 455 cranks MOSTLY in 2-bbl engines, and one Toro engine.
I suspect this is a Big Car [88/98] 2-bbl and the guy saw Forged Crank and then ASSUMED that means Toronado, therefore W34 ??
Back to... it needs at the very least to be separated from the trans and inspected. How do you get the torque converter bolts off if the engine does not turn? It's not easy.
I should hope a forged crank still fetches $300, easily. There is a fair bit of work extracting a crank though, and even then you may find it pounded to death. Can't "hear it run" before buying... I have a running, in the car, rebuilt forged crank forged pistons 403 and can't even get one real inquiry at $1200.... thinking of resurrecting the car as a driver.
So, now we are down to '68 maybe, 455 sure, 2-bbl, possibly forged crank. I note that the seller has not asserted BIG VALVE C heads, just C heads. I had thrown that in based on the Toronado Engine story. The only known red Toronado engine. Stuck engine might be as easy as a stuck valve, easily solved with heads removal.
You are still looking at $3000-5000 to redo this or any other such engine on a low budget. If one were to do that, why not start with a real Toronado engine?
I just had a thought....
I have seen forged 455 cranks MOSTLY in 2-bbl engines, and one Toro engine.
I suspect this is a Big Car [88/98] 2-bbl and the guy saw Forged Crank and then ASSUMED that means Toronado, therefore W34 ??
Back to... it needs at the very least to be separated from the trans and inspected. How do you get the torque converter bolts off if the engine does not turn? It's not easy.
I should hope a forged crank still fetches $300, easily. There is a fair bit of work extracting a crank though, and even then you may find it pounded to death. Can't "hear it run" before buying... I have a running, in the car, rebuilt forged crank forged pistons 403 and can't even get one real inquiry at $1200.... thinking of resurrecting the car as a driver.
So, now we are down to '68 maybe, 455 sure, 2-bbl, possibly forged crank. I note that the seller has not asserted BIG VALVE C heads, just C heads. I had thrown that in based on the Toronado Engine story. The only known red Toronado engine. Stuck engine might be as easy as a stuck valve, easily solved with heads removal.
You are still looking at $3000-5000 to redo this or any other such engine on a low budget. If one were to do that, why not start with a real Toronado engine?
Smash
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 539
From: Philly Burbs
Chris has only scratched the surface on the BS in that ad. First, every single 1968-69 455 installed in a RWD Oldsmobile was painted red. All Toronado motors of that vintage were pale blue. W-34 is a Toro-only engine, thus it would be painted the pale blue. A red 455 cannot be a W-34.
Second, as Chris points out, all Toro 455s were 4bbl. The only 2bbl 455s offered were in the Delta 88 (thus the red paint). The base engine was the L30 310 HP 2bbl motor with 9.00:1 compression. The optional L66 320 HP 2bbl motor had 10.25:1 compression. The only way to tell is to take the heads off and look at the pistons. Yes, it is possible that the intake was swapped during the gas crunches of the mid-1970s, as this was not uncommon, but the seller swears it's an original intake.
Third, while the whole "F-number relates to nickel content" thing is a myth, in every previous retelling of the myth the lower number was higher nickel content. This is the first time someone has suggested that an F4 is better than an F1. At least get your myth straight.
Fourth, it's an all original 1968 motor with a 1969 distributor?!
Finally, THE MOTOR IS STUCK!!!
Look, the needle on the BS meter is now broken from being pegged so hard. This is at best a core worth $150. Certainly any 1968-69 455 is a good starting point for a build, but expect to put $5000 into this motor, minimum.
Second, as Chris points out, all Toro 455s were 4bbl. The only 2bbl 455s offered were in the Delta 88 (thus the red paint). The base engine was the L30 310 HP 2bbl motor with 9.00:1 compression. The optional L66 320 HP 2bbl motor had 10.25:1 compression. The only way to tell is to take the heads off and look at the pistons. Yes, it is possible that the intake was swapped during the gas crunches of the mid-1970s, as this was not uncommon, but the seller swears it's an original intake.
Third, while the whole "F-number relates to nickel content" thing is a myth, in every previous retelling of the myth the lower number was higher nickel content. This is the first time someone has suggested that an F4 is better than an F1. At least get your myth straight.
Fourth, it's an all original 1968 motor with a 1969 distributor?!
Finally, THE MOTOR IS STUCK!!!
Look, the needle on the BS meter is now broken from being pegged so hard. This is at best a core worth $150. Certainly any 1968-69 455 is a good starting point for a build, but expect to put $5000 into this motor, minimum.
Old(s) Fart
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,768
From: Northern VA
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