Do these front and rear rubber seals get any gasket sealer along the block side or pan side of the seals?

I know they get the sealant at the corners of the seals, but what about along the seals themselves?

Any tips or advice other than cutting 1\8 off the front seal?
Motor is in the car, pan already dropped and all surfaces sqeaky clean.
Thx.

 

So far all Ive found about the rubber seals is in the 71' CSM. Sec 6b pg 18-

Says to apply 1050026 sealer or eqivalent to both sides of pan gasket and install on block...then install front and rear rubber seals....wipe lube 1050169 or equivalent on seal area and install pan, torque bolts to 10 foot pounds.

Any help out there? What is this lube 1050169?

 

I've always used sealer to adhere the oil pan side gaskets and rubber seals to the block (including a little extra where the rubber seals meet the gasket). Aside from where the rubber seals meet the gasket, I don't use any sealer on the oil pan side. This way you can remove your oil pan without damaging the gaskets. I do the same for valve covers and transmission pan gaskets--just "glue" one side so you can remove and replace them without changing the gaskets.

 

I've always had bulletproof oil pan seals. I use the cork / composite gasket (Olds diesel gasket) and stud the pan rails with Mr. Gasket Valve cover studs for Chevy (2 packages) and another package of short carburetor studs.

I put aviation form a gasket on both sides of the rail gaskets and ultra copper on both sides of the rubber end gaskets. Install the pan straight down on them and torque starting in the middle and working outward...ensuring you don't over tighten the nuts / bolts.

The aviation form a gasket looks wet, but it isn't. It never really gets hard, it just permeates the gasket and block surfaces and seals up really well. Later on, if you notice any seepage at the rubber end gaskets, you can spray with brakleen and push some more ultra copper in the area that is leaking...it will stop the leak.

 

i do the opposite of delmont,i prefer to use glue on the pan side,easer to remove the gasket from the pan then the bloc.

 

Thanks for all the post.
But if you notice, all 3 answers are different advice!

I'll make a decision on the pan rail gaskets.

But really wanted to know specifically about the rubber seals.

How nice a fit are they with sealer only at the ends as suggested by CSM, Chiltons, and everyone else?

Will the rubber suffice along the rest of the length of the seal area, no sealer?

Just curious here, only investigating.
Thx again.

PS--Im using the 350 Diesel gasket too.

 

This stuff?
ttp://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Aviation_Form-A-Gasket_No_3_Sealant_a.htm

I just caught your comment here about the rubber seals. Ultra Copper on both sides, missed that the first time I read it...thx.

 

Yessir...apparently Joe Mondello really did know how to seal an engine. The advice I gave above is pretty much what comes out of the Mondello Technical guide.

Ultra copper both sides of the rubber, Aviation form a gasket both sides of the pan, and hit the corners with more ultra copper...

Tip, the form a gasket never gets hard, do those first...coat both sides on a clean piece of cardboard (like the gasket box). Then lay UC on the timing cover and rear main cap...lay the rear rubber on the main cap, then lay the pan rails, then lay the front rubber (I think it's the front rubber that goes on top of the pan rail gasket, the back goes under it). Anyway, you'll see...

Once all of that is on, UC the front and rear rubber over the middle with a fairly thick bead, making sure corners get enough to seal. Lay pan down flat (I use the studs because it holds everything in place and makes the pan go down flat)...then torque.

Good luck! BTW, the AFAG can get messy...don't get it on your clothes.

 

Great tips, thx.

I picked up some Ultra Copper.
No one carries the Aviation Sealant down here loally.
I would have to buy online.

In arena of Sealants, I have Permatex Hgh Tack Gaket Sealer #80062 and Permatex Gasket Sealer #2 on hand. Probably will substitute with one of this these.

Here is a flow chart from Permatex some may find useful in area of Sealants-
http://www.permatex.com/documents/Ga...ngSelector.pdf

 

BTW - when engine is in the car, on a 455, its a RPITA. You cant get the pan completely off without unbolting engine mounts, tran mounts, remove driveshaft, etc, etc, and then lift engine. So many will have to do this job with pan laying on front crossmember, engine in the car. You get about 2 inches at the front of pan, and 4 inches at rear of pan to work with. In this case, its easier to scrape gasket of the block if need be in the future due to easier access the way the in the car method leaves you with.

Due to difficulty of pan issue when replacing gasket with engine in the car,
is there an ok, preferred side to use gasket sealer on? In doing this job, at the point Im at it seems easier to attach gasket to either block or pan, and then just bolt it up. In watching several vids out there, many mechanics just apply sealer to one side or the other, and some with the Tuff cork style gaskets dont use any sealer at all on the pan rails.

From messing with this, It seems easiest to seal gasket to block as its easiest to access it (Its still very frustrating as then motor mounts are totally screwing up the entire process, makes it messy and just PITA), and then take care of rubber seals, and bolt up. But it seems best to avoid leaks to seal the gasket to oil pan, to fill gaps if you had to pick just one side.

When I do this, it might in the end work out fine to seal both, but right now as Im under car in mock up, this is a tough process to do without getting eventually getting sealer everywhere when maneuvering gasket around, trying to get into place, etc.
VERY AKWARD working upside down, and with motor mounts in the way, etc.


Comments?

 

I finished it. Extremely Messy, frustrating, Double RPITA.
Almost want to say it isnt worth doing it this way again.
Next time, engine needs to be lifted, motor mounts removed, etc... to do it cleaner.

That said, I think she is sealed up very well. But due to difficulty in procedure, just wont know till the time she is fired back up, which is still a month or so away.
If your interested in following the fun (very behind in updating project, but time is actually going into the car over the updates!)
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...s-s-455-a.html

 

Glad you got it done...I did it in the car one time, I'll never do that again. I can get the engine out quick enough that it is easier for me to just do it that way and do it right lol! But that is why I use such extreme sealing measures...I don't want it to leak once it's in.

 

Just did this, never had lifted my engine before but realized I had to as I watched my old gasket and the rtv that the previous owner sealed the pan with fall into my oil pan....still leaks because I didn't seat the rubber ends correctly. With how much of a nightmare it is to change the oil pan gasket, I'm tempted to take it to the shop or someone who works on old cars and be done with it.

 

Yes, its a major major PITA. I have some ideas if doing it all over again.

1) if you just have to do it in the engine, after all the crap to remove,I would tack up the gasket to the block and get those tabs in right first.
But to seal up that rear rubber end seals, that is just ridiculously hard to do with engine in the car. Just no room to do it perfect. Im keeping my fingers crossed, (never good) But at least putting gasket up top with some hi tack will keep it in place allowing you to get those tabs right. Other wise, if you gunk it up with sealant first, then its really hard to align those rear tabs with rear rubber seals after. This is the area I might have issue with, but Im hoping to use Pilots idea of using copper seal if it leaks there.

Just couldnt do that rear seal the way I wanted to.

I also had some issues with intake manifold in similar seal areas, Front and rear. Didnt use rubber seals and making thick enough gasket using sealer to cover gap. Learn some lessons there to pass along too (remove Dist, dont shortcut that. If you have issues, you can get to that area of intake alot easier...also lay sealant at the front and rear gaps just before putting intake on, save for last area to seal. Then make sure to check both gaps before torquing. I hit my elbow in front seal area and didnt know it when doing the water outlets, and a chunk of seal area was reduced, had to add sealant there afterwards as it was sealed too tight to undo...I did light initial torque before I noticed it. I think I should of used the rubber seals there and sealant too looking back. Thats the way I did it long time ago, but allot of advice here to just use sealant, not rubber seal on intake)