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Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
I had a customer bring in his 455 a while back, he had the machine work done at a shop in Denver, there were some problems and we decided to try and straiten out the mess. My customer had a very nice body off restoration going on this car, and the engine needed to match the rest of the car. The customer supplied engine parts from a well know Olds vendor, and we were on our way. I think at this point I should point out how important a person contemplating a Olds rebuild get with a competent shop, I would find the very best shop you can, because you want to spend the money (1) time. And I will mention I have another 455 in my shop that the owner was horribly mistreated by the machine shop as well, so be very careful! Ok-so on to the heads which happen to be E castings that were virgin before the previous shop got the hands on them, it looked like they ground the factory valves and lapped them on the factory valve seat and surfaced them and assembled them filthy. So my plan is to:
1. Hot tank them and magna flux, tap all holes
2. Steelabrate
3. Install bronze valve guides and hone to size
4. Cut for a positive seal
5. Cut the valve seats and cut the bowls
6. Surface deck
7. Surface exhaust face
8. Cut the rocker stud pads for screw in studs
9. Clean
10. Assemble
Some pictures of the heads as delivered before the work starts..............
Last edited by VORTECPRO; September 30th, 2021 at 07:01 PM.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
The castings cleaned and all the bolt holes tapped and ready for machine work. Its important to note the oil drain back holes were completely plugged
with grime as delivered ready to run from the previous machine shop, so always carefully ck those drain back holes. Heres a good look at the factory valve job before our work. You can see we have installed our bronze guides and cut the guide for a positive seal, then finally honed the guide to size for a very strait round hole so that we can cut a perfect valve seat. Also in these photos you can see were we cut the rocker stud pad down for guide plates along with screw in studs. My customer was supplied with a 5/16 rocker stud something I wouldn't normally do, but it could work with the customers mild valve train.
Last edited by VORTECPRO; October 2nd, 2021 at 06:20 AM.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by Battenrunner
I sure hope you aren’t installing those 2 piece valves in those heads!
Good to hear from you Ryan! I think you know I wouldn't install those kind of valves in anything, again those were supplied to my customer by an Oldsmobile vendor known for bringing new Oldsmobile products to the market. Heres the final seats cut with high quality stainless valves, I was able to get a nice radius on the exhaust along with 4 angles on the intake. Turned out good.
think you know I wouldn't install those kind of valves in anything, again those were supplied to my customer by an Oldsmobile vendor known for bringing new Oldsmobile products to the market He was probably the mastermind behind engineering those also.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
The surfaced deck of the head. Today we will grind the valves, lap the valves, back cut the intakes and clean the heads set spring height, and assemble the heads. More pictures to come.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by rickw30
think you know i wouldn't install those kind of valves in anything, again those were supplied to my customer by an oldsmobile vendor known for bringing new oldsmobile products to the market he was probably the mastermind behind engineering those also.
lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
Last edited by VORTECPRO; October 2nd, 2021 at 07:01 AM.
Awesome work as usual, glad to see you purchased and are using some good quality valves instead of those cheapie rebuilder valves you were supplied.
The pics of these heads when delivered to you is just one more example of showing how most machine shops just don’t give a crap about what they let out the door, compared to a skilled craftsman such as yourself.
I am happy to see that there will be at least another successful Oldsmobile engine built in Colorado by your hands.
So if these are the heads for Jim then just tell everyone I supplied the parts.
He asked for basic parts for a street build, that’s what I supplied.
And you’re so Olds savvy that you had to ask how much to mill off the pads etc, among other things. You’re welcome.
Lastly, tell us what you’ve done that will potentially help every Olds enthusiast out there? Oh right, slam me every chance you get. Real mature and constructive.
Last edited by cutlassefi; October 2nd, 2021 at 04:35 PM.
If you dont specify everything you want your machinist to do, you're gonna be un-happy with the results.
Most people want a cheap valve job(low cost, save money) until the get their greasy,gritty heads back.
Then they want a hi performance valve job, with all the required work( and cost).
And want to blame the first machinist for doing what they asked for in the first place.
If you dont specify everything you want your machinist to do, you're gonna be un-happy with the results.
This is the absolute truth. A Good machinist is extremely hard to find these days.
I got screwed over by two different machinists who had very good reputations in Denver. I told them exactly what I wanted and never said a word about the cost; just that I wanted them 100% right. Neither could deliver, even when I told them exactly what I needed.
Now that I know better, I wouldn’t trust them with any task. I could tell their work was crap, but no one seemed to know anyone better nearby until Vortecpro sent me a PM.
Vortecpro saved my bacon once I finally got to meet him and he straightened out all the previous mistakes from those other machine shops.
Affordable street engine or not, there is a minimum quality level that I trust.
Last edited by Battenrunner; October 2nd, 2021 at 08:41 PM.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
The only thing Jim ever told me is: He wants it (engine) right, and from the looks of what he's building, I think he means what he says. And then theres the pistons................
The only thing Jim ever told me is: He wants it (engine) right/
I had the same conversation with him, more than once. I spell out all viable options and costs as I always do. If he decides to go in another direction at some point, then so be it. It’s his project and his money. He's allowed to do whatever he wants.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Let me apologize for the horrible picture quality, my good camera went to Tx. Heres a pictures of the valves lapped and the intakes back cut, my version of a "street performance valve" with the seals.
Let me apologize for the horrible picture quality, my good camera went to Tx. Heres a pictures of the valves lapped and the intakes back cut, my version of a "street performance valve" with the seals.
Do you run more than normal stem clearance when using positive seals on the exhaust?
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by OLDSter Ralph
What do you mean about "2 piece valves". Can you explain ?
Sure, a two piece valve has the the stem friction welded to the head of the valve. A stainless valve with its chrome stem also wears better when combined with a bronze valve guide. A stainless valve also lives better with todays non leaded gas.
Sure, a two piece valve has the the stem friction welded to the head of the valve. A stainless valve with its chrome stem also wears better when combined with a bronze valve guide. A stainless valve also lives better with todays non leaded gas.
Yes, thats inertia/friction welding. I witnessed some prototype work using the that process about 45 years ago.
"stainless valve with its chrome stem".......Are you implying that the stainless steel valve stems are chrome plated ?
Kind of ironic that you want to apologize for anything at all.
I just got off the phone with this customer in question. He and I are good. But after learning of this post he was very sad to hear about YOUR comments here. Pretty bad when your customer feels the need to apologize for YOU, the person he just PAID to do work for him.
You ARE the most immature adult I’ve ever come across, by far. Sad, very sad.
Last edited by cutlassefi; October 5th, 2021 at 06:05 PM.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by cutlassefi
Kind of ironic that you want to apologize for anything at all.
I just got off the phone with this customer in question. He and I are good. But after learning of this post he was very sad to hear about YOUR comments here. Pretty bad when your customer feels the need to apologize for YOU, the person he just PAID to do work for him.
You ARE the most immature adult I’ve ever come across, by far. Sad, very sad.
I have no idea what you are posting about, but did my customer ask you why the Wiseco pistons you sold him had pin bores that were out of spec on one side? When I opened the customers piston box I noticed black marker righting denoting weight, I just shook my head and thought this possibly wouldn't be good, when it came time to pin fit I was shocked, one side of the pin bore on some pistons had .0005 clearance while the opposite side had .0012, yes thats .0007 taper, putting one side OVER the spec, there was two pistons acceptable the rest had problems. My point: I know you can't measure pin accurately but who ever pin fit those pistons has no business touching any type of a hone. Fact is: My customer has been incompetenced with every one/shop he's come in contact with on this engine project except me and my shop and Redline and Bernard Mondello. I was able to use the valve locks/keepers you supplied, and they worked well. I will say one thing, you got big ***** to ship valves like that to my shop............
Last edited by VORTECPRO; October 5th, 2021 at 07:51 PM.
Pistons shipped from manufacturer, not me. I had no idea they had been somewhere else first. Someone should’ve told me that as soon as it was discovered. I would’ve arranged for an exchange.
But instead, once you opened the box and saw they were touched before, why didn’t you make it a point to check them thoroughly before moving forward?
He told me you said there were a couple that were .0011-.0012 on the pin bore. But that was AFTER you bored it and balanced it. He told me your response was “I think they’ll be ok, besides I didn’t have time to return them, I’m moving to TX”. So, are they ok or you didn’t have time to send them back BECAUSE YOU DIDN’T CHECK THEM FULLY BEFORE YOU COMMITTED THEM TO THIS BUILD?
Why did you install the galley plug with no hole, tell him you did that, then put the freeze plug in behind it? Now he has to drive that out before he replaces the plug with the correct one. Don’t you think that just begs to be forgotten? In a hurry were you?
There’s a bunch more he told me as well, but you get my point.
Last edited by cutlassefi; October 6th, 2021 at 04:50 AM.
Pistons shipped from manufacturer, not me. I had no idea they had been somewhere else first. Someone should’ve told me that as soon as it was discovered. I would’ve arranged for an exchange.
But instead, once you opened the box and saw they were touched before, why didn’t you make it a point to check them thoroughly before moving forward?
He told me you said there were a couple that were .0011-.0012 on the pin bore. But that was AFTER you bored it and balanced it. He told me your response was “I think they’ll be ok, besides I didn’t have time to return them, I’m moving to TX”. So, are they ok or you didn’t have time to send them back BECAUSE YOU DIDN’T CHECK THEM FULLY BEFORE YOU COMMITTED THEM TO THIS BUILD?
Why did you install the galley plug with no hole, tell him you did that, then put the freeze plug in behind it? Now he has to drive that out before he replaces the plug with the correct one. Don’t you think that just begs to be forgotten? In a hurry were you?
There’s a bunch more he told me as well, but you get my point.
Your such a Hypocrite !
You didn't like this type of criticism on you washed out Edelbrock thread. So why do it here.
Your such a Hypocrite !
You didn't like this type of criticism on you washed out Edelbrock thread. So why do it here.
I’ll be the bigger man here and turn the other cheek, even though you’ve now joined him in his constant bashing of me. Doesn’t say much for you though does it.
Thank you.
Last edited by cutlassefi; October 6th, 2021 at 05:35 AM.
I’ll be the bigger man here and turn the other cheek, even though you’ve now joined him in his constant bashing of me. Doesn’t say much for you though does it.
Thank you.
Your being a little to sensitive. I have never bashed you. I believe you are a good engine builder. What I don't believe is that you are the ONLY Olds engine builder that knows what he doing. You once criticized something I did to my engine. Even though engine builders have been doing it for years, you were compelled to say it was wrong. Why ! Because you don't do it that way. You are not the Olds engine God !
For the record. Just because I asked you to explain yourself and you could not, does not mean I'm bashing you..
Please, don't turn the other cheek !
Hey, rickw30 have you personally dealt with Cutlassefi and he burnt you or do you just hate him for the hell of it? Vortec has knowledge, why attack Mr Remmel constantly? Him doing timely work does give him points in my eyes, I am currently on the other side of a shop that cares very little. As usual, Mark was just defending himself from an attack on his knowledge. Cutlassefi brought these products to market because he personally drives and loves Oldsmobile's. The pistons he sells are dropped shipped. The Mahle pistons I bought looked perfect, directly from Mahle. Dave and I both got nailed with a nice charge from UPS, their shipper for the pistons. Dave was a little upset, it sucked. I told him, not the first time I got border raped, it probably won't be the last. Is it Mark's fault? No. Mark did it to try and save us money. Mark isn't perfect but he isn't the clueless devil you make him out to be. A few of us are anti chevy, I have very little interest in them, same goes for the LS. Both can be very fast but I could care less. Driving the LS trucks makes me think GM lied a lot when writing down factory power numbers.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; October 6th, 2021 at 09:58 AM.
September 28th, 2021, 04:28 PM
