64 CUTLASS KEN

So, I got an oppinion from Redog about which heads I should use. I have a set of C's and a set of E's. the C's came from a 1969 455 and the E's came from a 1970 455. I want to build a real mean street machine. Dont plan on ever "racing" it. other than spankin some rice burners from the light. I want to hear what people's oppinions are, and what it is that makes them lean one way or the other.

again THIS SITE ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

joe_padavano

The castings are nearly identical. Either set could have come with big or small valves. Use the set with big valves if you have them.

64 CUTLASS KEN

THANKS!!!!! im gona go look right now!

64 CUTLASS KEN

they are the same size, so is the metal any different from the two different years? or are they so close together that, like you said before, there is hardly any difference, if any at all.

dc2x4drvr

If installed in stock form, there's not a nickels worth of difference in performance..tell us about the rest of your combo..

J-(Chicago)

I would check all 4 and use the 2 with the best guides, personally.
Plenty of valves to choose from there.

64 CUTLASS KEN

how did people do restores without the internet? man I love the plethera of knowledge here! I am building two 455's. im gona just put one together and run the car. and the other I want to take my time (cuz I have to wait for the cash) and make a real nice street show machine. I am doing a complete frame off restore on a 64 cutlass convertible. My expertise is in the body and paint side of the world. so I am using all-yalls brains to figure this engine thing out! I am loving learning about it tho! I have pics on here of just a few highlights. I need to down size the pics so I can fit more for all to see. still learning this computer stuff. anyway, that is what I want to do with them. so I was just wanting to make a real nice one out of the two. and it sounds like I can blend anything I want as they are the same. and lookin over them last night I cant tell any difference other than the casting C and E.

Run to Rund

The heads have internal differences. The E heads have better ramps under the valve seats, but the improvement is not realized much without proper porting. E heads have deeper cups for the valve springs; check installed height also because if they have rotators, you will want to go to regular retainers and will want a longer valve spring. In stock form, the C heads seem to be preferred slightly. Cam choice will matter more than head choice.

Warhead

The E heads have deeper bowls, but the port angle to the bowl is worse because the ramp is higher, and there is more of a hump to go around on the short turn.
The C heads actually have a more direct path to the valve.

In stock form, they both flow about the same. Get a set of big valves for the C heads (2.07 or 2.125) and have someone clean up the short turn, and the bowl. Leave the 1.625 exhaust valve there. My opinion.

The E head deep spring seats are a real benefit when going to monster valve springs (solid roller applications), good long lasting high lift springs are available for the 1.67 installed height, but available race springs triple for the E heads 1.800 height (with a solid retainer). Spring manufacturers are able to pack more coils, and a larger wire in this area, resulting in heavier spring force for a given application. The 1.800 installed height is the same height as many small Chevy applications, and they get the good stuff, first. The first beehive Comp cams marketed was the 1.750 installed Beehive (at first, they called it the cone shape) spring.

Put new guides into anything you have built. A set of loose guides can kill off 30 horsepower.

Fill the heat riser, and run an electric choke.
JIm

64 CUTLASS KEN

im diggin everyones knowledge here! this helps aton! thanks so much!

507OLDS

Either set will work.They are both great condidates.Like Warhead said,put a larger intake valve in them,and leave the exhaust valve the way it is.Have the EGR bumps removed,and do a valve job,and they will work great.

joe_padavano

Repeat after me:

A.I.R. bumps. A.I.R. bumps.

507OLDS

I know that is the correct term for them.I am just trying to speak with the common slang.

joe_padavano

Do you also tell people that headers don't fit Supremes?

f-85

LOL i was thinking the same thing. Im sure Brian knows what thay are though.

507OLDS

I'd really like to know what ******* came up with that idea about the headers not fitting supremes.Do you know how many people have asked me what headers I have on my supreme,and how I got them to fit?

lshlsh2

Brian, You seem to be a businessman.

Tell them they are custom made and add $100 to what ever headers you buy and sell them.
Larry

64 CUTLASS KEN

well, thanks for calling them something you thought I would understand, but im still not sure what you are talking about. where are the a i r bumps?

Run to Rund

I have Headers by Ed and they fit my base level F85s. I wonder if they would fit a Supreme lol How about a Vandella

507OLDS

These bumps are on the roof of the exhaust ports.The only BBO heads that did not come with them are the first castings of the A-heads.The later A's,and all of the other BBO heads have the bumps.

joe_padavano

For completeness, all Olds heads (BBO and SBO) from the 1966 model year on have the bumps, since 1966-67 California cars came with A.I.R. and the bumps were required to accommodate the A.I.R. manifolds.

64 CUTLASS KEN

K and thanks again! for sharing the knowledge!

Boldsmobile

I just assumed you didnt have headers.

507OLDS

Joe,you have the info correct about the bumps & such,but I have seen 2 styles of the A-heads.The ones without the bumps inside do not have the bumps on top of the runners either.The ones that did have the bumps inside,also have them on the top,just like the rest of the BBO heads that you see.I have not had very many early 330 heads to make that same comparison,but I did have a set that did not have the bumps,like the early A's. This also came a little trick for some of the super stock guys.Since you can't port,they would run the early A's,and just maybe change the letter.

64 CUTLASS KEN

O.K. now I gota ask. Are you saying that you can fit headers on a 455 in a 1964 cutlass? and if so, are there heat issues with say the starter and anything else down there?

dre

Ken

If whichever heads you choose to use on your rebuild, would you be interested in selling the set that you dont use? I'm getting ready to rebuild a 455 for my 72. It currently has Ga heads, but I'd like to go with C or E heads.

Texas Jim

U must mean "Supreme" mag wheels.LOL!

Texas Jim

...like "Martha and the Vandellas?"

InfoJunkie

When I did my '74 Omega I used a '76 front subframe. The headers I used were from my '69 Cutlass (455) and they fit better and easier in the Omega. I could remove them with jacking the car up.

Run to Rund

Tx Jim, I'm glad someone noticed my pathetic attempt at humor

coltsneckbob

What was the purpose of those so called AIR BUMPS?

joe_padavano

To provide enough meat in the castings to allow them to be drilled and tapped for the air injection reaction system (A.I.R.) as used on 66-67 Calif cars. Why the bumps remained after that, when A.I.R. was not even used in Calif remains a mystery.

geckonz08

x2 on that one Ken.

Not one person where I am (new zealand) has even guessed oldsmobile when I have carted a B head into their shops .So, without accompanying the head with screeds of info off this site and a service manual ,God knows what result I would end up with.

Yep, their are some real 'smartmobile' guys on here.
mike

copper128

Never saw that done before, but it's pretty damn ingenious! Pick up the front-steer setup & disc brakes and avoid the header dilemna. Any '68-up Cutlass headers will work in that subframe.

64 CUTLASS KEN

NO WAY!!!! I spent two years in New Zealand! the North Island. this is a long shot! as we are talking a whole country, but there was a couple there (older) that had a collection of old cars. had a 1906 cadi. the last name was Officer, anyway, way exciting to hear from the "real" down under!

Rickman48

I heard the Supreme's really knew the meaning of 'headers'!!
[Good for a grin???]

geckonz08

Ken,This is a bit off topic .The only officer I know is the wrong one .Guess you can relate as to the Lack of U.S. auto knowledge here having resided for a period.
mike

64 CUTLASS KEN

I knew it was a long shot, but you know, you gota ask! =) yea you are right about the classic knowledge, Ray had to machine and build most his parts for his old cars, luckily he was a machinist. But hey there isnt a more beautiful place on this earth! I do miss the place often. but not the flight over there!!!!!

Bobby1917

im rebuilding my 71 350 now, and I’ve got header questions..Do any headers fit a 1971 Cutlass Supreme Conv?

joe_padavano

Seriously? You resurrected a thread that's over a DECADE old to ask this?