D Appeldorn

So i am going to get my 455 this friday.

So i start this thread, becouse i did'nt want to make more threads of each problem i gonna run in to.

i know i can use most of my 350 parts.

but want to know a bit more before i change the engine's

first, i saw at fusicks a set of enginemount's "necesarry from 350 to 455 swap.

do i need those?

second, the oilpan. I know i can use the 350 pan.
But the 455 comes with oilpump, and saw at fusick the 455 oil pan.
Where is the difference between the 350 and the 455 pan.

Thanks

Derek

Warhead

Use the 350 mounts.
The blocks are drilled in the exact same point for the mounts. They may have changed the mounts AND pads (where the mount bolts to) so you do not want to mix these. That is the 69-72 Cutlass/442 issue, not sure with your car. The blocks are still, ALL drilled in the same spot for these mounts.
Just use the 350 mounts-new ones of course.

The pans do have a difference, a bulge in front of the sump, and a baffle.
Use the 455 pan you get with the engine (I hope you get one!), just a bit more of oil control, which the 455 needs.

You will be amazed how similar these engines are.

GOOD luck!
Jim

D Appeldorn

that's the problem,

the 455 does not come with a oil pan.

if the 350 mounts are ok why should i get new ones?
i did not pul the 350 out yet, but i done it with other engine's.
But would not put worn out mounts back again.

I hope, can't wait to


Does anyone knowes the corect type of red?
Sorry, i can't get the spraycan's from fusick's ( air freight to the netherlands)
So need a solution to get paint that looks like the olds red 68' 69' In europe.

Casa

I think Jim meant use new rubber pads for the mounts, not new pads AND mounts. 40+ years of heat cycling, road grime, etc usually trashes the original rubber pads. This of course assumes you haven't replaced the pads in the recent past. If that's the case they may be OK.

Warhead

Correct.
What I am referring to as pads, are the "frame pads" to which the engine mounts bolt to. The mounts are the rubberized units that split, and wear over time. Get new ones of THOSE, for the 350.

I am sure that someone here has an oil pan they can part with, and can get some sort of deal shipping it over to you. I know of a company that loads a cargo container with vans every couple of months, bound for Europe. They load these vans with as many parts as they can physically hold. This lowers shipping cost, but will take several months for a part. These guys usually buy the parts themselves, and resell over there, for maximum profit.

If it must come to it, the 350 pan will work on the 455.

One of the other members here claims Ford red is close, I have no experience with that.
Good luck with the project.
Jim

joe_padavano

OK, everyone stop and take a deep breath.

First question, Derek, we're talking about your 69 full size, right? If so, the 350 and 455 use exactly the same motor mounts in the full size cars. Only the 1969-1972 A-body cars used the different mounts for BBO/SBO. There are no frame pads, the motor mounts have threaded studs that go through holes in the frame crossmember, if I remember correctly. Your existing mounts not only bolt to the 455, they are the correct (and only) mounts for that engine in your car. If you want new ones, get Anchor P/N 2262 and 2263 (RH and LH are different).

The only difference between BBO and SBO oil pans is that the BBO pans have extra bulges around the center crank throws. I assume this is due to the longer stroke and provides a little more room under the spinning counterweight for oil to drain back into the sump.

Be sure to get the correct BBO exhaust manifolds for your car.

Blk71SX

because future problems are not always apparent and it's a helluva lot easier now than later

D Appeldorn

thanks, and yes it's about my 69' delta 88.

I shall look and if worn replace those pads.
saw the oilpan at fusick's under the A body section.

Joe, can i use the 350 exhaust at first, so i can replace those when i collected the parts i need?
And i asume there is a difference with A body And B body exhaust manifold.

I do not know if i gona search for good stockers or a set of headers to get duals.

My plans for my delta are simpel, I Keep and store my 350 and all the parts for a future rebuild
The 455 when i am finisched, it gona have a original intake with a edelbrock 750 carb. Maybe a performer if a can't get a good stock.
I do have a quadra set fot a 455, if it works it would stay.

maybe next year i want to get duals in stainless.



did anyone tried a 350 pan under a 455?

svnt442

I used a 350 pan on a 455 with no issues.
As far as the mounts go just replace them. It's cheap insurance.
The small block manifolds will bolt up just fine.
As far as the Edelbrock carb goes it won't bolt up without a spacer.

joe_padavano

The small block manifolds bolt up, but your current exhaust pipes may not fit due to the taller deck height. Usually Olds big block manifolds are taller to compensate for the deck height difference, putting the exhaust flange in the same place as on a small block. The real question is, do you want to pay for new exhaust pipes so you can avoid buying manifolds, or do you just want to spend the money on the correct manifolds now. This is particularly important if you plan to run dual exhaust, since you need the special Thornton driver's side manifold.

D Appeldorn

Thanks for the replies,

in first place i want to use the stuff i have.
I'l spent most of my hobby money in this year on the new converteble top, new tires, bodywork and repaint and all the other stuf i repaired.

So the engine was not foreseen, and it was my wish to bolt a 455 in the future.
and with the 350 oil problem it now time to mount a 455 and keep the 350 to learn and rebuild it.

So that's why i ask what would fit and works, and wil not damage the new engine.

It is summer here and want to drive my olds again, and work on it when the wheater changes.


Joe, ore those thornton aftermarket manifolds? thought olds build originals as well.
There is a shop around her, the same where i bought my 455.
They also make brand new custom exhoust, the way i want and bolts on any manifold i give them.

They bent the pipes and can make them bolt on in stead of welding the parts.
they make them for about 1500 euro in stainless and the type off mufflers i want. duals from header til end.

But my old one did'nt fall of yet

D Appeldorn

Yes brought today my 455 home.

it's a pitty that it's over 30'degrees Celcius over here

Block is very clean, and when it's a little cooler i gona work on it.
It got a AERA paper with it.
engine rebuilders association, break in procerdures for remanufactured engines.


But i'm on a dillema now,

here it is,

It's a 396021 Fa engine (never saw the little a) with G heads with i gona check tomorow on numbers. (if it not posebly a Ga)

What kind collor shal i put on it.

It goes in a 69' delta 88, but it's a 72'to 76'engine with they sent me the paperwork of it's rebuild.

Should i make it red or bleu??

joe_padavano

I'm sorry, but WHAAA, WHAAA, WHAAA......

It's been over 100 deg F (38 C) here in the Washington DC area for the last week and I've been out working on my 62 F-85 nearly every day!

Red, no question. Correct for 1968-69.

D Appeldorn

Ok red it will be.

it's 37' C but in my garage 40+

gonna start tomorow, in my free sauna/ garage

It's a woodframe with sheetmatal plates garage the next i will use insulated parts.

Do you know with type of red is realy close to the olds red?
I can't order spraycans form the states.

does it looks like chebby red? orange/red type?


shall make pictures to,

D Appeldorn

Is the red something like buick red?

saw a few paint's for olds but it is difficult to find red?

Jamesbo

Since I know Joe is rushing arond trying to finish up his car ready for the Nationals, I'll give a a pic.

It's NOT orange/Chevy red. It's red red

Warhead

We have been getting up to 45 deg C, my un-isulated garage hitting 50-55 deg C, so you will not find any sympathy here!
Paint your roof white, put styrofoam (even packing sheeting will help) on the underside, and insulation in the walls. Buy a big fan too. I hate sweating on my work.
I am sure there is a nice, dark red that is available local to you that will fill the bill.
Good luck
Jim

D Appeldorn

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

It's atempting to stop my work at the olds at my folk's place



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D Appeldorn

I'l have a other question.

If checked the numbers on my new 455.
But the strange thing is the driverside head is a G head and the pasenger a Ga?

Il post the link of the pictures i made.

So did they made a mistake? The engine is all rebuild .

http://img820.imageshack.us/g/11072010002.jpg/

http://yfrog.com/ms11072010002jx

the head numbers are the same but the G and Ga arent? they are with new valves etc

could you compare the collor to a ral collor? or a gm code?

joe_padavano

I wouldn't worry about it. The little A was used by Olds to indicate some small revision to the design. The fact that the casting number didn't change leads me to believe that the G and Ga heads are functionally equivalent. So long as both have the same size valves, it's not a problem. If it really bothers you, grind off the little "A".

D Appeldorn

i almost would

they have the same cast number, and have new valves etc.
the engine is LPG ready with hardned valves.
Maybe if they change the gas prices again to fill up the dutch goverment paycheck, i'l gona run on lpg

I also ordered a performer intake and a performer carb.
That il put on.

D Appeldorn

Is it recomendeble to use a 350 oilpan under my 455 with a M22F oilpump?

Got a new M22F oilpump with it, bolted the oil inletpickup of the 350 on it and the 350 oilstick.

It did not came with a oilpickup snout and a oilstick and i know there ar difference between them.

I want to know if i gonna get in trouble with this setup.


and 2,

i ame ashamed to say but i broke the plastick kap of my starter 1108781 6524 6 delco remeny.
Can i purchase anywhere the plastic cap of it?
I'l know! stupid to disconect it with one wrench, had to hold the first bolt to.

D Appeldorn

the 350 pan under the 455 will fit, but it is a 5 qts.
And there are differend storie's about oil etc.

I'm not building a racer, just a 455 with a performer and duals.

Can i safely use the 350 pan and the M22F pump that was with the engine?

the 88 is a automatic columschift equiped

svnt442

They are both 5 qt pans. The only one that holds more is the Toronado pan which is 6.

D Appeldorn

can i use the 5 qt pan safely with the m22f oilpump.

if do you guy's recommend a pan containing more oil.

my stock pump needs a rebuild, and i have the m22f brand new.
that i already bolted on.

i'm new to the fact as when do i need a bigger volume pan.

D Appeldorn

stupid country i live in

Can't vind anywhere engine paint i need.

They sell only 4 collors but basic.

Never new how hard it would be to find a engine enamal,
in ford red or olds red.

tried several places, even duplicolor that sells ford red in the states.
Sell's only 4 basic colors in my country. grrrrrrrrr

i know there is a dificult in spraycans to deliver to europe, does anyone know if this is also for por15? in pint's

D Appeldorn

Yes, i found one

But is on holiday for a week.

have to wait anyway, my performer intake and carb is coming in a week or 2.

mesured the 350 pan and both 350 and 455 clearense, seems to be almost the same.


maybe a stupid question, but does the 455 normaly with the 455 deeper pan a longer oil pickup?

And the flywheel, I bolted it the same way as on the 350, but is there a align point on it?

joe_padavano

They should be exactly the same. The only difference is that the BBO pan has two "bumps" just forward of the sump.

See above - the stock pan is not deeper.

The flexplate has one bolt hole clocked off about 5 degrees or so - the pattern is not symmetric and the flexplate only goes on one way.

D Appeldorn

Thanks Joe,

could'nt find it in the manual, so i bolted it exact the same as on te 350.
there was only a difference in momentum to torq the screws?
The automatic hase a less amount of torq moment than the manual?

Also used a bit of loctide (normal to strong)

Mounting the oilpan was a pain in the........ , i alway's use a bit of high temp black oil/water/exhaust sealer.
Learned that i stick those seals first on the engine in stead of the pan

D Appeldorn

One thing wories me a bit.

Il put the flexplate of the 350 on the 455.
Put the block back in my delta, conected the th400 behind the engine.

And there i hade a little space between the stalconverter and flexplate.
there were a gap of 0.2 inches that realy easy closed by atach the 3 screws that mount the flexplate and converter.

I heard a soft plop sound and it bolted quiet nicely.

Is this normal? or dit by mounting the engine behind the trans i possibly pusched the converter a bit?

did not use extreme forse to bolt the converter to the flexplate

joe_padavano

No problem - that's how it should be. If you did not have clearance before bolting the converter to the flexplate, THEN you would have had a problem. What you've described is normal.

D Appeldorn

Thanks joe,

I am glad to hear that, i was a bit woried about it.

I hope that my intake and carb is comming this week so i can finisch my swap.
And that i get the spec's of the engine's rebuild.

need it to set the timing and type of sparkplugs.

shall make some pictures of it,

Thanks again

D Appeldorn

Joe,

you talked about the Thornton header.

I did remake my crossoverpipe from the driverside to the pasenger side.
becouse i will place a dual exhaust in the futere.

But i saw the scarse space left of putting a header.
And it need to be a mid pipe as original becouse of the steering- wheel part

Who sells those thornton header you talked about?

citcapp

This is what your looking for

http://www.themotorcompany.com/1970-...s-p-16156.html

D Appeldorn

I'l think you ment this manifold
http://www.themotorcompany.com/Full-...d-p-16158.html

becouse i have a fulsize 69' delta 88

joe_padavano

That would be the one.

D Appeldorn

Yes, i can pick up my intake tomorrow.





Does anyone have experience with Silvolite pistons? and a standard melling cam?

tim72

Do not knowif you are runnung air or not but the brackets for the 350 vs 455 Alternator and power steering pump are different.

joe_padavano

Sorry, but that is not correct. The 350 and 455 accessory brackets are identical from 1968-1977. Where necessary the brackets have two sets of holes to accommodate both the short deck and tall deck motors.

D Appeldorn

That's right joe,

mine alternator bracket got 2 hole's an uper and lower.
upper hole to use with 350 and the last/lower hole on the 455.

But my pulley's are incorect or i'm missing a AC.
I can't vind any holes or hoses on the firewall so i'm thinking they changed the pulley's.

This i gonna change in time, as also the exhaustmanifolds and valve covers.
Duals and chrome finisch valve covers.


Joe, is the Mellings MC1287 a decent cam?

This is wat they put in it, also Silvolite pistons, perfect circle pistonrings, clevite cambearings, crank was micro polisched? trimetal buschings.
new Melling rods and cloyes timeset.

I do not know if this is decent stuf or low budget rebuild.

And what hp or torque should i suspect.
pistons are 8.5 or 10 , G heads, performer intake 750cfm carb.