I just got my 455 back from my local mechanic. It needed the exhaust manifold replaced due to a crack and the bolts were frozen. Common problem so I've heard. Ended up pulling the entire engine out, replaced the manifold and turned out the engine had paraffin build up due to using Quaker State oil earlier in its life? Is this true? I would love to hear reaction to that.

He ended up doing a valve job, replaced timing chain, water pump and cleaned up the motor but no acid dip. He said rings were fine so nothing done there or with bearings. Cleaned up and repainted. Replaced gaskets and a couple motor mounts. He also replaced entire exhaust system and converted it to dual exhaust from single cross-over. Engine runs fantastic - perfect.

However, he put 'break in' oil in it and said I should change it in no more than 20-30 miles. He also mentioned that I could bring in the oil filter and they could tell me more about what was going on.

Also, he charged me little less than $3K -- is that reasonable for this kind of job?

I would love to hear reaction and advice around what 'break in' oil is and what to do after to ensure engine has a long life.

Thanks.

Oil fill cap was not painted....Olds blue? or leave it?

 

Just follow his instructions like he said. Its common to use break in oil in rebuilt engines. Just drive it normally and have him check the filter later.

I've heard others talk about quaker state and its deposits years ago,but I have no idea if its true or not.

Theres no point in beating him up on what he charged you. If it runs perfect and you are happy thats what matters. Yea..ok you probably could have gotten a new engine for that kinda money but Florida is not a cheap state to live and work in.

If it were me, I'd want my oil cap to match the engine, I mean you paid for that too.

 

Oil caps were not painted from the factory.

No comment other than that.

- Eric

 

Funny how that job spiraled from something simple.

I leave my oil fill caps unpainted, so it's really just however you like it.
The price really isn't that bad, particularly if he used quality components for the exhaust system. It was probably even between labor and parts.
Break in oil has extra zinc and other additives to help protect a fresh motor, but isn't good for a long time. Google can tell you plenty. There's also all the assembly lube that you want to get out of there after it's done its job.

For a truly fresh build (new cam, bearings, rings, etc etc) it's very common to replace the oil&filter after breaking in the cam and again after a ~200 mile break-in drive. Since the critical parts in yours are the same, then it's really just to get all the assembly stuff out.

 

I guess I'll attempt to say what MD is thinking. In an attempt to clarify what was done to your engine I have put the work you listed in a list form:

Exhaust Manifold - $150 part + .5 labor = $190
Valve Job - $150 labor
Timing Chain - $100 part + .5 labor = $140
Water pump - $50 part + .5 labor = $90
Replaced Gaskets - $100 for Fel-Pro complete engine kit + 1.0 labor = $190
Cleaned engine - 1.0 labor = $80
Painted - $12 paint + 1.0 labor = $92
Motor Mounts - $20 part + .5 labor = $60
Exhaust Pipes - $250 parts and labor

Total: $1242

I am no expert, so please don't take my suggested cost as a true estimate. I will say that I've been around these cars for long enough to know my parts costs are pretty accurate, and seeing as you had the engine out of the car on a stand...the work was easy

Are you sure this is all he did?

**If this list is accurate, I'm not quite sure of what you are breaking in...drive it like you stole it**

Steve

 

Wait, who pulled the engine? My read of the OP's post is the mechanic did 100% of the work.
If the engine was already pulled, then yeah, that would be pretty high.

 

I am a little thrown off because he said he got his 455 back, not his car...but then I can see also where he would've taken the whole car to have it worked on. Only he can tell. I still think that is a lot of money for what was done, you can rebuild the engine for that.

 

I did not pull the engine. That price was for pulling the engine and sending it to the machine shop and reinstalling. Also included the other work as I mentioned. Does that change anyone's take on the price?

Thanks for all of the great comments.

 

IMO, the price isn't horrible. But if you're tearing down the engine, then I'd be under the sway of the "might as wells".
Steve - a complete exhaust system for $250 all in? Holy cow! I need to move down south!

 

Well my 2 cents.... I would have checked the rings, so inexpensive a cost and can cause big problems but if compression was good all should be well...

 

Where I come from you got a fair deal, lot of labour in that job as well.

 

 

Oddball...yeah my price on exhaust didn't include tail pipes. I get in the mindset of the drag car that I was thinking header collector back to muffler and turn down in front of the axle. I guess $400 would be more accurate if he went from manifold collector to muffler and back out the rear.

Still, I think that is a lot of money to do that job. And not even get a rebuild? Why'd he pull it in the first place if he wasn't going to strip it down and give it a bath? I don't know, I just feel like you really didn't get much for your money. I'm not trying to be mean or make you feel bad so please don't take my words as condescending or anything. It's just that if you pay almost $3000 to someone, you ought to have something substantial to show for it. A water pump, timing chain, and painted block aren't substantial in my mind.

Steve

 

Again, thanks for all the GREAT comments...

Keep in mind, the key was replacing a cracked (and noisy) exhaust manifold was the main reason for all of the work. The bolts were rusted so bad there was no choice but to remove the heads, hence the other work which also included complete new conversion to dual exhaust.

Regardless, it at least seems like the work was done right...the car runs and SOUNDS amazing. TH400 shifts smooth as new, exhaust is pretty stock but still has cackle that turns heads.


All opinions welcome.

 

But you can remove the heads without pulling the engine.

• Remove intake manifold,
• Separate exhaust from exhaust manifold (OR Remove exhaust manifold from head),
• Remove valve cover,
• Remove head bolts,
• Pull off head.

Why would you remove the whole engine just to drill a bolt out of a head?
And then add on a few random extras (water pump and timing chain)?

It just sounds fishy.

- Eric

 

What exactly is being "broken in"?

What did he do to your TH400?

 

Engine had a ton of waxy sludge in it - I'll try to post pictures. I think the thinking was that the break in oil would clear out what they could otherwise not get to.

Nothing done to transmission.

 

Which would imply that he put in something other than regular oil - like mineral spirits, or ATF, or some sort of "engine cleaner."

It's one thing to pour in some mystery gunk and cross your fingers on your own high-mile motor as a last resort to postpone a rebuild.
It's quite another to pay a mechanic who has removed the engine from the car and thus has easy access to actually clean it out properly, thousands of dollars to do it.

I'm starting to not feel really good about this whole thing.

- Eric

 

I agree with this. The OP stated the cost was to pull the engine, send it to a machine shop, and reinstall.

What I am wondering is what did the machine shop actually do? Doesn't seem like they did anything that the mechanic couldn't have done himself.

Except that you mentioned they did a valve job, but that still sounds pricey for just replacing valve seats, and the engine did not have to be removed to perform that operation.

 

What you don't realize is that "cleaning" such a high mileage engine isn't going to do anything but cause problems. Any gasket that he didn't replace may start leaking once the "sludge" is removed. Also, once the 'sludge' is broken free it is going to be traveling through the engine and can possibly clog one of the oil passages. It's just not advisable, and it's kind of insane to think someone went to so much trouble to take shortcuts.

 

Well said.

 

"engine runs fantastic", it costs $800 to do a break job on my outback...tough crowd!

 

I think the last front rotors I bought for my Jeep were about $60 each, and they were top-of-the-line, double the price of the "premium" rotors. Did a caliper not long ago, and it set me back $41. Last set of front pads I put in was also top-of-the-line and was $70. Rear pads were about $50, calipers $40, rotors $34.

Now I'm not sure what a "break job" on an Outback entails, but seldom are calipers changed if they're working fine, so
if I had changed just the pads on my Jeep, it would have been $70 + $50 = $120.
If I had changed the pads and rotors, it would have been $70 + $50 + $120 + $68 = $308.
If I had changed the pads, rotors, and calipers (which shouldn't have been necessary), it would have been that $308 + $160 = $468.

The maximum amount of money I can come up with to change brake components is $468, about half of what you said you paid, and that includes parts that are not normally changed.

Point being? You seem to be living in a world of inflated prices, as well as the OP.

If I had to pay that kind of money to keep my brakes working, I wouldn't be able to afford to drive.

- Eric

 

It's actually a company car (or I would have done it myself), it needed a complete brake job including ABS module. My point is that not all mechanics are crooks, I believe based on the op, the work that was performed was well intended and I expect professionally executed. I believe the automotive mechanic profession is underated and the skills and experience should be duly compensated.

 

A Subaru? As a company car?

What is this nation coming to?!?

An ABS module is NOT a part of a brake job, and if it is for these cars, please remind me NEVER to buy a Subaru!

I will agree with that, so long as the caveat is provided: "but should be considered to be crooks until proven otherwise."

I agree with that statement.
Like many other professionals, though, their work is being second-guessed by third-party payers, and they are increasingly insulated from the customer by layers of "service writers," etc.
Also, as the much-maligned book The Bell Curve pointed out, children are now tracked with shocking effectiveness based on their intelligence, which means that a huge proportion of the smart ones go to college, and a huge proportion of those that go into "manual fields" are not bright. This means that it's harder and harder to find a really "smart" mechanic (or plumber, or electrician), who, let's face it, is what any careful customer should be looking for, and who would (or should) command a higher level of remuneration.

(Remember when the guy down the road who fixed cars was really ingenious?
You don't see that so much anymore, and it's a shame)

- Eric