1966 Ninety Eight Intake Casting 2GC ID
Thread Starter
Tanawanda
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
From: Fort Worth, Tx
1966 Ninety Eight Intake Casting 2GC ID
Hi all,
New here.
Nice site
Maybe somebody could help or suggest a direction to take regarding a 2bbl Rochester 2GC. This unit was pulled from a
1966 Olds Ninety Eight 8467 built in Lansing "M".
Carburetor or other pictures can follow later if anyone has interest.
The 2GC tag is missing from a previous tear down/rebuild so I,m unable to be sure of the part number. After much investigation I've determined the probability that this is the original carburetor P/N 7037055? or 056
Here is a link supporting
http://www.oldsmobility.com/mpc/group3725/index3725.htm
I also have 3 ebay references I base ID probability visually on and that I can post; but I'm unsure if that is in agreement with the TOS and vender policy here. Very distinctive idle vent on the Oldsmobile carbs.
When checking the vehicle numbers I verified it is a D Block 389244 casting number/Letter
http://442.com/oldsfaq/ofblk.htm#Blocks
"B" Casting 425CI heads
The intake manifold though is an "A" casting right next to and in the depression of, #2 cylinder runner on the intake with a casting number just to the drivers side of the water-neck. It is 391186
This Letter "A" in not documented anywhere I can find including the 442 faq intake section in the previous link, which is very detailed with data.
I have received much doubt from others that the Ninety Eight came with a 2 bbl Manifold and carb originally. I'm confident this is the original build though; with no engine rebuild. My conclusion based on close inspection and considering the car was last tagged in 84...I bought it
a few months back. After a bit of work/ignition cleanup etc..It runs and idles now; but I think the accelerator pump has had it.
any input on the Intake and ID-ing the carb; or in general would be welcome
Best Regards,
New here.
Nice site
Maybe somebody could help or suggest a direction to take regarding a 2bbl Rochester 2GC. This unit was pulled from a
1966 Olds Ninety Eight 8467 built in Lansing "M".
Carburetor or other pictures can follow later if anyone has interest.
The 2GC tag is missing from a previous tear down/rebuild so I,m unable to be sure of the part number. After much investigation I've determined the probability that this is the original carburetor P/N 7037055? or 056
Here is a link supporting
http://www.oldsmobility.com/mpc/group3725/index3725.htm
I also have 3 ebay references I base ID probability visually on and that I can post; but I'm unsure if that is in agreement with the TOS and vender policy here. Very distinctive idle vent on the Oldsmobile carbs.
When checking the vehicle numbers I verified it is a D Block 389244 casting number/Letter
http://442.com/oldsfaq/ofblk.htm#Blocks
"B" Casting 425CI heads
The intake manifold though is an "A" casting right next to and in the depression of, #2 cylinder runner on the intake with a casting number just to the drivers side of the water-neck. It is 391186
This Letter "A" in not documented anywhere I can find including the 442 faq intake section in the previous link, which is very detailed with data.
I have received much doubt from others that the Ninety Eight came with a 2 bbl Manifold and carb originally. I'm confident this is the original build though; with no engine rebuild. My conclusion based on close inspection and considering the car was last tagged in 84...I bought it
a few months back. After a bit of work/ignition cleanup etc..It runs and idles now; but I think the accelerator pump has had it.
any input on the Intake and ID-ing the carb; or in general would be welcome
Best Regards,
Old(s) Fart
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,770
From: Northern VA
The casting letters (or numbers in the case of small block parts) were typically assigned sequentially. That's why A heads were 1965, B heads were 1966, etc. Your "A" intake manifold is probably off an early 425, possibly a 65 model. It was popular to convert 4bbl cars to 2bbl in an attempt to improve gas mileage in the bad old days of the 1970s oil crises. It's definitely not original to an engine out of a Ninety Eight. The other parts seem to be consistent with a 1966 motor, though it is possible that an entire swap from a 2bbl Delta 88 was done at some prior time.
Thread Starter
Tanawanda
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
From: Fort Worth, Tx
Thanks gentlemen for the replies.
I had considered that what y'all stated may be the case. First; that there was a engine swap with an 88.
I'm not in a position where I can see date codes or what not.
Looks like 2 decades of grease at best. Interesting though, when I looked up some parts on national parts houses websites; Oreilly, I think, originally listed the 66 - 98 had a 2 bbl option field. Hardly solid information. But; then I looked again and all list 425 4bbl only. My wife insists I was not seeing things, because my site is deteriorating.
I questioned that; but she looked it up at the time on her phone so that's confusing. The Delta 88 did certainly come with a 2bbl. What is puzzling is the 98's appearance. I'm pretty certain that engine has the original fuel pump?? And it still pumps, except a bit weak, even after sitting for so very long. A testament to the durable America that once was --
I had considered that what y'all stated may be the case. First; that there was a engine swap with an 88.
I'm not in a position where I can see date codes or what not.
Looks like 2 decades of grease at best. Interesting though, when I looked up some parts on national parts houses websites; Oreilly, I think, originally listed the 66 - 98 had a 2 bbl option field. Hardly solid information. But; then I looked again and all list 425 4bbl only. My wife insists I was not seeing things, because my site is deteriorating.
I questioned that; but she looked it up at the time on her phone so that's confusing. The Delta 88 did certainly come with a 2bbl. What is puzzling is the 98's appearance. I'm pretty certain that engine has the original fuel pump?? And it still pumps, except a bit weak, even after sitting for so very long. A testament to the durable America that once was --
Thread Starter
Tanawanda
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
From: Fort Worth, Tx
"A" casting undocumented?? I'm glad for the information about the exports, because that is where my thoughts for explanation lead me. A retrofit for the gas lines of 73 and odd even 79 -- very possible But the only things evident of being replaced are the oil filter and starter. The peddles are even very intact tread almost like new, the mileage low if not turn over, and original equipment everywhere I look. She even has the correct radio - Maybe it was a dealer Frankenstein car tailored for an eccentric?? Laugh -- stranger things have happened
I did, though, I think, determine the part number for the 2Jet on the car. The link here is good information.
http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Koldsmobile3.htm
Thank again
Regards
I did, though, I think, determine the part number for the 2Jet on the car. The link here is good information.
http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Koldsmobile3.htm
Thank again
Regards
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
Well, lucky you.
Not only do you have the rare 98 with a 2-bbl, you have an oddity weird "typo" intake manifold.
See Post #90 and 92 of
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-thread-3.html
which as of today you can find using the search keyword "intake" with each letter entered TWICE: iinnttaa.... a trick which works great to avoid gathering every post ever in the search. Evidently I never got around to adding all the big block intakes...
"B" Casting 425CI heads
======================
OK, pretty sure that's a 1966 issue engine, though in rare instance the B=1966 thing may vary.
The intake manifold though is an "A" casting right next to and in the depression of, #2 cylinder runner on the intake with a casting number just to the drivers side of the water-neck. It is 391186"
======================
Well, now it gets interesting.
Typically the "A" intake bears casting # 384438, used for '65 2-bbl motors, whereas
typically the 391136 casting # bears the "D" Letter ID and was used on 66-67 models.
So, you have a rare "typo" manifold with a mismatch of Letter ID and 6-digit casting #. I have seen and documented ONE other of these things. Maybe you would be so kind as to photograph yours and document it as well. I can add the pix to the stash of oddities.
There is an INTAKES thread here where we tried to post a pic of every intake known to exist.
I suspect that at the end of the run of "A" intakes, they simply forgot to change the "A" when they changed the 6-digit. Made a few like that, then decided, meh, who cares, use 'em. OR, they were just starting the A-B-C casting ID thing, maybe initially someone figured ok keep the "A" and just change the 6-digit, then later they decided what the heck, different years, differences in the castings, let's change the letter and the 6-digit each model year or two... in order to more easily differentiate any casting from another similar but not exactly the same unit.
Post your VIN first few characters? Maybe you do not have a 98. I have see "Delta 98" cars for sale- though they were never made.
Where are you located? Outside the USA?
As for fixing the carb, don't worry too much about getting the EXACT right number, the innards don't vary too much. Get parts for the common 1966 2-bbl carb you have the # for and the kit's instructions will basically tell you what to set all the adjustments to, exactly, for that number carb. Not sure why folks discard them tags- clueless folks that should not have tools I guess...
ebay links are not frowned upon here to illustrate a point as far as I know, pretty friendly site. You might consider right-click the epay photo, grb its url link, and post that in your post using the yellow icon that looks like an envelope to me but is supposed to be a pic of a mountain I guess?? Two icons to the right of the underlined "A" on my screen. Just above your text as you enter it.
Here is what my free to share PN database says about intakes around that era:
384438
MANIFOLD, Intake Manifold, 2-bbl, Iron, Casting ID = "A"
1965 BB 425 2-bbl. Number on RH runner aft of carb.
Heater Fitting Threads SMALL [3/8" NPT]
391136
MANIFOLD, Intake Manifold, 2-bbl, Iron, Casting ID = "A"
1965 ? BB 425 2-bbl..
WEIRD- same 6-digit casting ID but Main ID "A" differs from "D"?
Number on water crossover.
Heater Fitting Threads SMALL [3/8" NPT]
384439
MANIFOLD, Intake Manifold, 4-bbl, Iron, Casting ID = "B"
1965 400 CID [442], 425. Square bore for pre-Qjet Carb
Heater Fitting Threads SMALL [3/8" NPT]
387958
MANIFOLD, Intake Manifold, 4-bbl, Iron, Casting ID = "C"
1966 1967 BB 425 400 455 Toronado and Motor Home uses
First TORONADO Intakes
Heater Fitting Threads SMALL [3/8" NPT]
391136
MANIFOLD, Intake Manifold, 2-bbl, Iron, Casting ID = "D"
1966 1967 BB 425 400 455 2-bbl [WEIRD- same 6-digit, diff Letter ID]"
Not only do you have the rare 98 with a 2-bbl, you have an oddity weird "typo" intake manifold.
See Post #90 and 92 of
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-thread-3.html
which as of today you can find using the search keyword "intake" with each letter entered TWICE: iinnttaa.... a trick which works great to avoid gathering every post ever in the search. Evidently I never got around to adding all the big block intakes...
"B" Casting 425CI heads
======================
OK, pretty sure that's a 1966 issue engine, though in rare instance the B=1966 thing may vary.
The intake manifold though is an "A" casting right next to and in the depression of, #2 cylinder runner on the intake with a casting number just to the drivers side of the water-neck. It is 391186"
======================
Well, now it gets interesting.
Typically the "A" intake bears casting # 384438, used for '65 2-bbl motors, whereas
typically the 391136 casting # bears the "D" Letter ID and was used on 66-67 models.
So, you have a rare "typo" manifold with a mismatch of Letter ID and 6-digit casting #. I have seen and documented ONE other of these things. Maybe you would be so kind as to photograph yours and document it as well. I can add the pix to the stash of oddities.
There is an INTAKES thread here where we tried to post a pic of every intake known to exist.
I suspect that at the end of the run of "A" intakes, they simply forgot to change the "A" when they changed the 6-digit. Made a few like that, then decided, meh, who cares, use 'em. OR, they were just starting the A-B-C casting ID thing, maybe initially someone figured ok keep the "A" and just change the 6-digit, then later they decided what the heck, different years, differences in the castings, let's change the letter and the 6-digit each model year or two... in order to more easily differentiate any casting from another similar but not exactly the same unit.
Post your VIN first few characters? Maybe you do not have a 98. I have see "Delta 98" cars for sale- though they were never made.
Where are you located? Outside the USA?
As for fixing the carb, don't worry too much about getting the EXACT right number, the innards don't vary too much. Get parts for the common 1966 2-bbl carb you have the # for and the kit's instructions will basically tell you what to set all the adjustments to, exactly, for that number carb. Not sure why folks discard them tags- clueless folks that should not have tools I guess...
ebay links are not frowned upon here to illustrate a point as far as I know, pretty friendly site. You might consider right-click the epay photo, grb its url link, and post that in your post using the yellow icon that looks like an envelope to me but is supposed to be a pic of a mountain I guess?? Two icons to the right of the underlined "A" on my screen. Just above your text as you enter it.
Here is what my free to share PN database says about intakes around that era:
384438
MANIFOLD, Intake Manifold, 2-bbl, Iron, Casting ID = "A"
1965 BB 425 2-bbl. Number on RH runner aft of carb.
Heater Fitting Threads SMALL [3/8" NPT]
391136
MANIFOLD, Intake Manifold, 2-bbl, Iron, Casting ID = "A"
1965 ? BB 425 2-bbl..
WEIRD- same 6-digit casting ID but Main ID "A" differs from "D"?
Number on water crossover.
Heater Fitting Threads SMALL [3/8" NPT]
384439
MANIFOLD, Intake Manifold, 4-bbl, Iron, Casting ID = "B"
1965 400 CID [442], 425. Square bore for pre-Qjet Carb
Heater Fitting Threads SMALL [3/8" NPT]
387958
MANIFOLD, Intake Manifold, 4-bbl, Iron, Casting ID = "C"
1966 1967 BB 425 400 455 Toronado and Motor Home uses
First TORONADO Intakes
Heater Fitting Threads SMALL [3/8" NPT]
391136
MANIFOLD, Intake Manifold, 2-bbl, Iron, Casting ID = "D"
1966 1967 BB 425 400 455 2-bbl [WEIRD- same 6-digit, diff Letter ID]"
Last edited by Octania; Sep 3, 2015 at 10:04 AM.
Thread Starter
Tanawanda
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
From: Fort Worth, Tx
Oddity 98 2bbl
-"Well, lucky you.
Not only do you have the rare 98 with a 2-bbl, you have an oddity weird "typo" intake manifold.-"
Figures, odd things seem to always associate themselves with me--and
That is very concise detailed information you have provided me, and I greatly appreciate it !
I will gratefully look over the intake posts you directed me to. Get those images using the "mountain insert" ..
"OK, pretty sure that's a 1966 issue engine, though in rare instance the B=1966 thing may vary."
I'm curious, "B" casting rare instance varies how?
I'd be happy to get some pictures with my phone in next day or so. And
I guess that is a "36" and not an "86" in the casting number - brackets are in the way for me to get a good look, actually traced that character with my hand like reading brail; which I don't do.
With this 98 I Literally had to shop vacuum tons of rat turd off this motor. We had to pull her into the garage with a wench. I will add another maybe pertinent observation - just in front of the carb is a "D1" designation and a dial image on the passenger side of carb both on the intake. Name for that dial escapes me.
The VIN is 384676M and she's the 364 thousand 'th car made. I would assume that would put it going down the line in late 66; ... I'll have to have some more working room so I can look the whole car over better and get decent pictures of the engine compartment.
No, I'm not outside the US I'm in the USA, I'm located in Cowtown - more like an urban sprawl now - Ft Worth, TX - that is.
If it is an oddity - your explanation of -why the "A"- - that makes sense. The internet is not nearly as useful as it once was with all the commerce tailored search results these days. I could not find anything about the "A" casting at all - I couldn't find it even existing. I mostly use DuckDuckgo.com for searches, and it seems to return better results without persistent tracking cookies. But almost as many commerce/ad related results as the larger engines. The real detail though is often to be found in forums and BBS like this one. Especially as I have no manuals/books for this.
"Not sure why folks discard them tags- clueless folks that should not have tools I guess..."
Yea that's kind of aggravating...
Thanks again for the input on the carb and posting TOS regarding ebay, and all else. I originally, tentative id'd the carb as a 7037055 - but appears its more likely a 7026053 - either way the Walker rebuild kit 15407c covers both. I haven't rebuilt a carburetor in a very long time, so I'll need to take my time.
Incidentally, you all seem to have the 411 on much Auto related; I have a real problem and an unknown way to proceed welding a Dash into a 70 442 Conv. I had a dash cut out from a junkyard in '89 and what is the best way to put the doner dash into place?? spot weld not really possible; and I've not had a comfortable approach envisioned since getting the dash.
Obviously it, the, car has been stored - and UN-restored for quite some time. I plan to start another thread soliciting help when I get back to that project.
Not only do you have the rare 98 with a 2-bbl, you have an oddity weird "typo" intake manifold.-"
Figures, odd things seem to always associate themselves with me--and
That is very concise detailed information you have provided me, and I greatly appreciate it !
I will gratefully look over the intake posts you directed me to. Get those images using the "mountain insert" ..
"OK, pretty sure that's a 1966 issue engine, though in rare instance the B=1966 thing may vary."
I'm curious, "B" casting rare instance varies how?
I'd be happy to get some pictures with my phone in next day or so. And
I guess that is a "36" and not an "86" in the casting number - brackets are in the way for me to get a good look, actually traced that character with my hand like reading brail; which I don't do.
With this 98 I Literally had to shop vacuum tons of rat turd off this motor. We had to pull her into the garage with a wench. I will add another maybe pertinent observation - just in front of the carb is a "D1" designation and a dial image on the passenger side of carb both on the intake. Name for that dial escapes me.
The VIN is 384676M and she's the 364 thousand 'th car made. I would assume that would put it going down the line in late 66; ... I'll have to have some more working room so I can look the whole car over better and get decent pictures of the engine compartment.
No, I'm not outside the US I'm in the USA, I'm located in Cowtown - more like an urban sprawl now - Ft Worth, TX - that is.
If it is an oddity - your explanation of -why the "A"- - that makes sense. The internet is not nearly as useful as it once was with all the commerce tailored search results these days. I could not find anything about the "A" casting at all - I couldn't find it even existing. I mostly use DuckDuckgo.com for searches, and it seems to return better results without persistent tracking cookies. But almost as many commerce/ad related results as the larger engines. The real detail though is often to be found in forums and BBS like this one. Especially as I have no manuals/books for this.
"Not sure why folks discard them tags- clueless folks that should not have tools I guess..."
Yea that's kind of aggravating...
Thanks again for the input on the carb and posting TOS regarding ebay, and all else. I originally, tentative id'd the carb as a 7037055 - but appears its more likely a 7026053 - either way the Walker rebuild kit 15407c covers both. I haven't rebuilt a carburetor in a very long time, so I'll need to take my time.
Incidentally, you all seem to have the 411 on much Auto related; I have a real problem and an unknown way to proceed welding a Dash into a 70 442 Conv. I had a dash cut out from a junkyard in '89 and what is the best way to put the doner dash into place?? spot weld not really possible; and I've not had a comfortable approach envisioned since getting the dash.
Obviously it, the, car has been stored - and UN-restored for quite some time. I plan to start another thread soliciting help when I get back to that project.
Thread Starter
Tanawanda
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
From: Fort Worth, Tx
2bbl Intake Pictures
Here are some pictures of the 2bbl intake on the 66 Ninety Eight
They are not the beat pictures, but not too bad. I' not sure if you want these posted on the thread you lined to Octania; or want better pictures; or if you want to put them up on your thread so you can choose what pictures go.
They are not the beat pictures, but not too bad. I' not sure if you want these posted on the thread you lined to Octania; or want better pictures; or if you want to put them up on your thread so you can choose what pictures go.
Thread Starter
Tanawanda
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
From: Fort Worth, Tx
Pictures of the car and E head from 70 442
Here are 2 bad pictures of the car and one of the E heads to 70 442 Conv
kinda upside down like
20150905_142512.jpg
20150905_142416.jpg
20150905_143307.jpg
kinda upside down like
20150905_142512.jpg
20150905_142416.jpg
20150905_143307.jpg
Thread Starter
Tanawanda
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
From: Fort Worth, Tx
B12? Carburetor kit installed Fuel Pump Replaced
I finished rebuilding the Rochester 2GC carburetor this past week. I replaced the fuel pump as well. The pump that came off the block was one like I have not seen before. The original pump has a brass tee coming off of it with one branch going to the fuel inlet to the carburetor and the other to a diaphragm assembly. Of course this was unavailable in the parts store. Funky setup?? What is the functionality of this; anybody know?
Will Post a picture later today
The throttle is now responsive; but needs the new points set, rotor, and distributor cap I just had delivered. The vacuum advance mechanism in the distributor is in need of cleaning and evaluation. To get the engine running I just cleaned up the extremely worn Cap rotor etc..
When I give it a little throttle she carb backfires. Ignition replacements for sure-- Maybe Valve issues, stuck rings, and any number of ailments I'm sure are possible/probable.
I pulled out my compression tester , still need my dwell meter and timing light from out of storage.
I always used to use Berymans B12 Chemtool in the old days, and I'm considering running that as a crankcase flush--I noticed they removed that application and instructions from the new bottles. Too hard a solvent on newer plasticized engines evidently.
Does anyone have input on using this on the elderly 425???
Significant sludge was evident when I put in the new fuel pump.
Thanks to all for all the prior input.
Will Post a picture later today
The throttle is now responsive; but needs the new points set, rotor, and distributor cap I just had delivered. The vacuum advance mechanism in the distributor is in need of cleaning and evaluation. To get the engine running I just cleaned up the extremely worn Cap rotor etc..
When I give it a little throttle she carb backfires. Ignition replacements for sure-- Maybe Valve issues, stuck rings, and any number of ailments I'm sure are possible/probable.
I pulled out my compression tester , still need my dwell meter and timing light from out of storage.
I always used to use Berymans B12 Chemtool in the old days, and I'm considering running that as a crankcase flush--I noticed they removed that application and instructions from the new bottles. Too hard a solvent on newer plasticized engines evidently.
Does anyone have input on using this on the elderly 425???
Significant sludge was evident when I put in the new fuel pump.
Thanks to all for all the prior input.
Thread Starter
Tanawanda
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
From: Fort Worth, Tx
What does this do.n.B12 Chemtoolanyone
Pictures of fuel pump diaphragm gizzmo--i had to take the T off n use it capping the second outlet due to inability to get the fuel line on at that angle--ac bracket interfering---ill hv to get a 90 deg fitting to remedy--
Does anyone have thoughts on b12 crankcase flush--i know a brief run thining out oil lubricant and the resulting stress is a cost..
Pics nxt immediate post I have to pull em from PC since don't use photobucket...
Does anyone have thoughts on b12 crankcase flush--i know a brief run thining out oil lubricant and the resulting stress is a cost..
Pics nxt immediate post I have to pull em from PC since don't use photobucket...
Thread Starter
Tanawanda
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
From: Fort Worth, Tx
Thanks to the very kind and friendly help of another forum, the gizmo is determined to be a fixed fuel pressure regulator. Probably since it is an "oddity" factory 2bbl build. With that I'll continue discussion there to get the best understanding of using B12 on this old motor .
Thanks to everyone for their kind help and friendly thought provoking discussion
Thanks to everyone for their kind help and friendly thought provoking discussion
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